More often than not I find myself in agreement with you Sunfish.

The best (worst) example of the above was in 2001 when they begged / demanded that Peter Costello not help Ansett.

My tax dollar paying for single mums, lazy bums and now 6 figure QF boilers and bunch of incompetent managers. :ok:

I have a feeling this will end up in a legal battle which will get quite ugly.

You reap what you sew. Years of Qantas treating it's staff like crap , and you wonder why some are inclined to screw the company for everything they can?

How about if the Government give a guarantee to Qantas and NOT Virgin. Mr Branson give ALL the Virgin staff an entire payed day off and go picket the Qantas terminals in their uniforms then no one gets to fly for 24 hours, he would get the same guarantee then ???

Qantas have been allowed and funded to bully everyone domestic and International over the years, they can sure dish it out but can't take it the cry babies................ so the Liberals let Ansett fail but not Qantas, such a Village is Australia.

The yanks let Pan Am/Eastern/TWA fail...... we still have airlines.

Truss is on the money with this debt facility. The Minister is very reluctant it appears to be drawn into some free for all backed by the Government. He reckons if they want to access it it will cost more than other finance. Sunfish you talk of Qantas as some sort of individual entity which I know is business speak to address a company as an individual which it obviously is not. The current Qantas board and executive are responsible for this @&$kup not Qantas per se. As an employee I take exception to being included by just being an employee. The only way that this Government should ever be involved in a debt guarantee facility is if they go through the books with a fine tooth comb. Joyce has to be very careful. Too much bleating and doomsday rhetoric will expose the charade for what it is. It's a get out of gaol free card for him and that really disgusts me. So he wants a debt guarantee to pump more dough into his beleaguered Jetstar brain child and continue to screw Qantas whilst continuing with the grand plan of slowly grinding the Roo into the dirt. I don't for a minute believe anything that comes out of his mouth and neither should Hockey. Truss had his measure no doubt.

bye bye passengers, bye bye jobs...welcome to centrelink.

Not your best post Sunfish. Hasty and ill thought out.

Remember Qantas is not AJ et al, it is made up of a lot of good, honest hardworking people, who also hate AJ and everything he has done!

All of us are greatly saddened by what has been done to Qantas and most would gladly work with an honest, visionary management to make Qantas a great airline again. Sadly it's out of our hands!

Those over 60's who are rorting the system using shorthaul and sick leave can hardly complain about the career they've had! Using the last 5 years of a 40+ career as an excuse to punish the company, and thus your fellow pilots by association, is poor form. I know it's only a few, but it's a few too many.

... And it's "sow" as in sowing seeds rather than using a needle and thread, although AJ seems to have stitched up QF...

ruprecht

Agreed. Sunfish you lost me there. I've put 110% into Qantas and despise the clowns destroying this once great airline.

Troo and Variable I understand your feelings but your argument is wrong. Ford, Holden, Alcoa, etc. all have good employees like you and you are entitled to exactly the consideration as those employees received, no more and no less.

This is part of the problem, Qantas employees someohow feel that they are entitled to special treatment merely because they work for Qantas. Perhaps you might get more sympathy if you had consistnetly supported other industrial workers in the past. The irony of course is that your own management treats you with complete contempt.

Qantas is behaving like the school Prima Donna, demanding "special" treatment merely because they are Qantas. The treasurer needs to give them a foot up the backside and send them packing. If they go under, so be it. Others will take their place.

To put that another way, I think it is poetic justice if the great outsourcer finally gets outsourced by the Australian flying public. There are better airlines than Qantas. Management made their bed, now it's their turn to lie in it.

really Bootstrap1,what do you think a Jetstar engineer earns ?or should i say a Korr contractor

Qantas do get special treatment, it' called the Qantas Sale Act. Don't forget to add the facts to your rant sunfish.

Stop with the over 60's and the 'rorting' stuff. It is absolutely IRRELEVANT!

Taking sick leave (in what ARE rare instances, if true) in the manner suggested means they haven't taken it before. It used to be a matter of considerable pride to retire with 12 months sick leave owing (the maximum). I would suspect the reverse is now true. If you have been treated as badly as Qf has treated people, I guess you would be looked at like an idiot if you didn't take as much as you need. Why go away and risk infecting the crew if you arent 100% fit? If you are that angry with the latest thing the idiots have done to you - to the point you want to strangle your wife, kick the dog and throw the cat at the fridge, should you really be going away for 8-10 days? And that's aside from the long term stress issues - WILL I have a job in 2 years? 5 years? Anyone can fly under any circumstances for 6 months, but after 10 years of nothing but crap?? It all affects people differently - and not being a medico I would not be able to judge.

I am not anti jet*, but I would love to see the average 'sick days owing' currently on Jet* vs Qf - especially Qf say 5 years ago.

The whole issue is a symptom of the cause. The cause is idiotic, appalling and grossly/deliberately negligent management.

Dixon/JOyce have treated Qf like Craig Thomson treated the HSU - their personal piggy bank. And no doubt the board/upper management etc. as well. Then they persecute staff for wearing red ties.

Not a single positive decision for Qf has come out of management for the last 10 years if not longer. The airline IS being destroyed, nothing crew or engineers can do will either improve or hurt it. Far greater damage than staff can wreak has been perpetrated from way higher pay scales than mere workers.

Government assistance to private enterprise? They're having a lend right?
Get rid of the QSA. That is all.
You can't compensate for the QSA because it's not a quantifiable impedance for QF nor is it a quantifiable assistance to the competitors.
On the QSA, is this talk of debt guarantee all thanks to the greens/labour not agreeing to the QSA removal?
QF don't really care about the QSA removal, it won't help them, they're just using it to tug at the xenophobic heart strings of the people to justify cheaper debt.

I'm not sure that they do. I certainly don't, and I don't get that impression from others I work with.

I would like to see some special treatment given to Clifford, Joyce & co, but it's probably not the sort of special treatment you were referring to.



True, but something we've been aware of here for about a decade now.

A Jetstar engineer would take a pay cut if they joined Qantas. That's right, you heard correctly.

Ah yes thanks for the correction. Ah the ironing.

John and Dick bleet on about Virgin being a national carrier.

Trying to steal 94 years of service to this country in just 14 years of existance.

Cute.

Sunfish to put the record straight, as a pilot I earn within a bulls roar of what a Virgin pilot earns for same hours flown and with far less restrictive work practices. The sense of entitlement you speak of is not that at all but the integrity and energy that we as a group put into the day to day running of OUR airline is being fritted away. For many of us to fly for Qantas has always been an honour first and foremost.

I think that should be ALL, not 'many'.