Ahhh but who appoints the Chief Pilots?
They are fairly carefully chosen by bankers and accountants who hold the power.

The BOM issued an amended TAF for Mildura early Tuesday morning with NO fog on the TAF.

Or you could have looked at the taf with classic fog conditions brewing and put on the fuel anyway.

Which is why is arrived overhead Adelaide with an hour holding then Melbourne diversion. Temp and few point hugging each other, low temps and a breath of wind forecast.

Flightplan had us arriving overhead with 75 min fuel. Not this little black duck.

Accidentally Double posted ... Sorry

SN,

Have you looked at the weather for Melbourne on Tuesday morning? Melbourne was out, as there fog was on the TAF, TTF's, and the SPECI's.

Porch Cat 11 training is not much use if you are not auth below Cat 1 ( your post 212). A regulator's approval process needs the airline to make a safety case for AWO operations. Hard to argue its not safer to land Cat11/111 than to divert with a low fuel state to a regional alternate, turn the jet yourself then fly back to destination thus increasing duty time. I am sure you would agree with that but your airline needs to ask the question before a Senate Inquiry does.
And yes well aware ADL is only Cat 1 which is why I referred to MEL...perhaps SN isn't though?

Not when I was holding west of Adl it wasn't . TTF was ok.

Ok for clarification, my original thought was arrive over ADL with fuel to out live any fog that might eventuate.

When we discovered fog from the VHF met service, about abeam melbourne,
The ttf for mel allowed us to consider it As an ADL alternate. Bear in mind our eta YMML was ADL eta + holding then divert so we had options.

That's why Adequate assessment (ceiling Viz and crosswind) are for Lawyers to allow ETOPS.
Suitable/Acceptable assessment is for pilots and planning on the day sh+t hits the fan.
You can have one as an ADQ but not also as ALT at the same time.

FFRATS

SN,

The amended ML TAF issued at 1704 had prob 30 fog and the 1900 TTF SPECI had from 2000 VRB 5 kts 0500 FG

Compare that to AD, with the 1900 TTF saying all the 9's few022 NOSIG

The AD TAF had all the 9's Few030 Sct045


So you are in the planning room about to depart on your flight to AD, which is all good and ML has fog, why would you even consider ML as an alternate?

Sorry Max AB, maybe I didn't make the situation clear. The training and the intent is for VA to be using Cat 2. It is currently in CASA's hands. I was correcting your inference that VA is not intending anything other than Cat 1. That is incorrect.

Read my clarification post. Departing Syd I only considered fuel to hold hours past any possible fog in Adelaide. Upon discovering Adl had fog abeam YMML, the TTF YMML allowed us to consider it an alternate.

Porch good luck with CASA then....

Does anyone know much on the QANTAS 737 conditions which diverted there?

Did they get in substantially earlier where vis wasn't as much of an issue - perhaps break in the fog at the right time?

blueloo,

Have a read I've my previous posts. Virgin arrived at Mildura before Qantas, yet Qantas landed first. If it was clear when Virgin arrived, then why did they allow the Qantas aircraft to land first? Only the Qantas and the Virgin crew know the answer to that at the moment. Once the ATSB have finished the investigation hopefully we all we know what happened in the CTAF.

QF first in to MIA
 

Maybe as Channel 7 stated, it was "to guide them in":}

Jokes people, just jokes:ok:

Perhaps the fact that the VA aircraft did a missed approach off their first attempt, has something to do with it. After they have done the missed approach, the QF a/c has a go, lands, and the VA a/c then lands off the second approach? Would that not explain the apparent discrepancy?

Video shows the QF 737 is already on the ground when the DJ does a missed approach.

Didn't DJ do a couple of missed approaches and what was on the video was the second one? Also QF 737s have HUDs which may have played a part in QF getting in off the first attempt.

Could well have. I was only responding to PM's suggestion that
DJ did at least one missed approach after QF had landed.

Both arrived at times close enough to require separation. Discussion between aircraft resulted is Qf landing first , virgin holding. Both low fuel, virgin was being gentlemanly. So I'm told.

Virgins always hold back, especially for rats. :}

Airlines are much more conscious of fog when operating into YPPH, back in the old days, crews had set criteria when operating into Perth. If these were not met, an en route diversion was required.

A while back I two hours out of PER from the north, suddenly 300M FG appeared on the forecast. DJ and QF inbound from the east, diverted to Kalgoorlie without even trying to get in. I continued as I had YPKG and YGEL as alternates and landed with 10km+ but the conditions were perfect for fog to form.

Perth has had a lot of attention from airline flight planning departments due to its isolation, lack of alternates (especially wide body) and peculiar weather.

Perhaps it's time to take a closer look at other airports.

Do Virgin aircraft have ACARS and/or company flight following ?

Flying Syd-Adl qf is in an acars blackout area until just prior to TOD from about 15 min from TOC

Sounds about right, all the tails sticking out blocking B... ;) :}

Amen to that! Move up ! Don't be scared!

On this day, I was on a REX flight into Adelaide (as a passenger). As we came down the ILS onto 23, Edinburgh was clear, Parafield was clear, the city centre was clear, got within less than 5nm (not 100% on the distance - but we were certainly abeam or passed the city centre, so closer to runway) from the threshold and went into fog. From the pax window I couldn't see horizontally or directly down.

Pilot did a standard missed approach, and off we wandered to Whyalla for fuel, where there was quite a little REX gathering of diverted planes.

I too was curious why Edinburgh couldn't be used as an alternate? Don't the RAAF boys like to share? (The ILS at Edinburgh runs N to S, same as Adelaide).

Depends where you are......in Melbs it's usually the rats sitting at P or Q redy to go but stuck there waiting for the virgins that called ready whilst still on the crew bus!!!! :}:}

Goodonyamate,
Funny but not quite. Permitted to call ready turning onto Echo if cleared all the way. Don't JQ and QF just call ready on tower instead of asking for a taxi clearance? ;)

Nice one,

After a week of professional respect,

It's back to hand bags at 40 paces

.........ah come on 'M' where yr's SOH:-) The thread is starting to peeder out anyway so boys will be boys here as we all know QF donate more booze to the ATC xmas party & the Roo is on our coat of arms, although they are a 'pest' & we do shoot the bastards!:E:)


Wmk2

Yeh, come on Marauder, lighten up. BTW, you need to change the spelling of "tommorrow" in your handle! :}

Piston Broke Again
Maybe a quick read of Jepps Air Trafffic Control pg au702 1.4.1.1 may be in order (no mention of taxiway echo)

Not going to find it in ATC. It was in the ERSA about 5-6 years ago but I haven't opened one of those up since! Had a cursory look online but alas it may have been removed...any ATC boys/girls care to elaborate? (May as well find out the answer now!)

Are you the QF clown who goes to ML Tower and calls "ready in 90 seconds" to try and get in front of those that actually are ready?

goodonyamate :D:D

The bit about not contacting tower until on E definitely used to be written somewhere previously.

Nah, just when we actually are ready, approaching the holding point. Not while still around the corner on the southern side of the intl terminal, like your good self.

So if it used to be written somewhere, but now isn't, shouldn't you refamiliarise yourself with the appropriate procedures?

Can't say I've ever heard the 'ready in 90 seconds'. Not saying some fool doesn't do it though....wouldn't mind hearing it just for the comedic value

'Ready 30 seconds' has been used quite a bit recently. It's all to do with how long you require in the line up position to do an engine run up with engine anti ice on. It's also in the AIP! :ugh:

THREAD DRIFT ALERT!
:ok:

Back on topic please, people.