Exciting times . Good luck !

What army is that Ken? All the flight ops 787 team at Jetstar are from within Jetstar.

Lookleft

That's good to hear provided you're correct. The 'army if experts' to which I referred is that body of professional people that keeps Qantas ticking, day in, day out through thick and thin.. :ok:

Perhaps they'll assist QF if/when they option to 789? ... :D:ok:

I heard when I was around head office recently that the plan now is to run the 787-800 for 2 years and then swap them out for 900's to enable expansion into Europe. So maybe Qantas may get some used 800's in two or three years time once they have had the crap flown out of them.

Maybe you'll need a job with the Mothership in two or three years when you've had the crap flown out of you...

Ollie, anyone with half a brain should have already figured out that the utterly risible plan of RedQ into Europe from the leprechaun was just that. Risible. Therefore the next " brilliant " plan is to send Jetstar into Europe with 787 a/c. They just had to wait until the 787 was actually here and start sending back the Stolen Generation 330 a/c to QF. Keep starving QF Inter of funds, reduce their footprint into Europe to bugger all. Focus utterly and completely on the promotion of Jetstar. Trouble is, it is up against some very canny National carriers in SE Asia who are expanding their own interests. The utterly frustrating thing about all of this is that not a soul will admit that JQ international is, and will for the foreseeable future only survive because of the wilful blindness and financial gymnastics of Management

Just remember,

Australians love FLYING JETSTAR!!!!

At least that is what Alan keeps telling us, and if you keep telling yourself this for long enough you will believe it yourself.

Its not that we want to fly them but you have taken away our choice. There is a difference.

Ollie

Are you suggesting that Jetstar are so bad that they can rubbish an Airplane in as little as 2-3 years?

Your hubris is noted.

This isnt a 'lets insult Jetstar staff' argument. Please dont take it as such.

In a profitability sense yes FLGILC that is absolutely the case.

The basic issue I think is this. The goal of any LCC is to work out how to charge more than the next guy to survive. Qantas had/s a brand they could harge te earth for.

In sensible hands the 787 would have been a gold mine. Jetstar in a business sense will waste the opportunity to provide better product than the next guy. Qantas could have easily charged a $500 (say) premium for a 787 seat. Jetstar models require them to sell for $500 less on a product that CAN only differentiate itself in the marketplace on price - ergo: 99% of pax wont give a toss if they are on a 737-100 or a 787-800.

I dont think anyone has anything against Jetstar staff - far from it. This discussion is about managerial insanity on a very base level.

The Emperor has no clothes.

No wasn't meant to be a bashing comment, just saying that Jetstar had big plans for the 787. However talking to people in the office these plans have been shelved due to the 'numbers' not working. It was just the first time I had heard someone say that when the 'group' gets the 900 it would be used to swap out the 800's to enable these expansion plans to go ahead. Up until now the company line has always been that the 900's would be for Qantas mainline.

I don't think that Jetstar will trash the new aircraft in 3 years, I think that our passengers might! They are of a certain class!!

Anyone who thinks Qantas can charge a $500 premium, particularly in Y, has rocks in their head.

Reality is air travel is a commodity - the differences between carriers are tiny.
In my mind the amount a full service carrier can charge extra is very small.

IFE - Most LCCs charge $15 for a portable unit
Food - Again worth $20 at most
Alcohol - For the vast majority $10-20, more for a few
Leg room/ Elbow room - Maybe $50 (same as exit row fees). Admittedly most full service carriers are squeezing here as well (eg Emirates 777)
Lounge access (if elite and have access) - Up to $50
Schedule - Some premium on domestic, less for international
Crew - On some QF flights an advantage, on others a disadvantage

So there is little difference in Revenue - and all of the above revenue items have associated Costs - it comes down to how well an airline manages other costs.

This is where Qantas will continue to struggle, particularly against the Asian airlines... And in costs I particularly include Pilot and FA costs, maintenance costs, landing and parking costs at home airport, depreciation on aircraft
Jetstar has a slightly better chance at competing but even it will struggle.

---

Bootstrap,
Australian's don't love flying Jetstar.
They do however love the cheapest price so they can spend more on their Bintang beer and singlets.

Moa999

A very significant component of the management and administrative overhead of JQ is paid for by the 'Qantas Group'.

Aircraft and spares purchasing, aeronautical charges and regulatory affairs and product development to name just three areas.

Additionally, Qantas mainlines management overhead in this area is now the highest in the world. Massively overstaffed, and each staff member earning salaries that are in the multiples of contemporaries in Australia and the rest of the world.

Some of the flight operations salaries are absolutely outrageous - close to a million per year for former CP ' The Fat Controller' and nearly 800K for 'the Rutting Chimp / Hailstone'

Agree with some of your points on operational costs, but cost issues are not just confined to this area also.

$500 was plucked out of the air. Point is Qf can charge more than Jet*. And that is surely the point of any business. Nice new business class in a 78 - surely not a hard proposition to market...

Makes me sick - especially AVV. My commiserations to all. Picked up a number of jets out of there, never had a problem.

AIPA's comparative figures for virgin and qantas 737 operation showed the following..

Staff per airframe (Aug 2012)
Qantas 155

Virgin 70

Difference: + 121.4%
WTF!!! There is the problem right there.
And its got nothing to do with cabin crew, engineers or pilots.

It would be interesting to benchmark qantas international versus not only jetstar but other airlines around the world.

At least Joyce has taken steps to rectify the balance by sacking engineers. And established 3 tiers to the pilot management structure, which is exactly what the organisation needs. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

'Sistership.' There's and interesting choice of term.

How about 'canabilized and soon to be murdered mothership' for more accuracy? :ugh:

i dont find those numbers relevant unless its shown they account for contractors performing the functions of some of those 155.

is it apples with apples?

Waren, the figures don't surprise me at all. The amount of middle managers in Qantas needs to be seen to be believed.
Also many QF mainline staff, paid by mainline are supporting Jetstar, Qlink, EFA, Network Businesses etc, such as treasury, legal, government, media and corporate relations, advertising etc.
Funnily the media never seem to question the amount of staff in Qantas HQ when they talk about cost cutting measures. It's always those overpaid pilots or engineers.

I chose sistership deliberately.

Jetstar will be bigger than Qantas. It's only a matter of how soon.

Many a child outgrows/outperforms their parent - they still remain parent/child.

Qantas will always be the mothership. The management destroyed, cannibalised and murdered mothership, but still the mothership.

Your adjective is illogical.