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The air of moral superiority on this thread is fairly hard to stomach. 200 odd guys are going out the gate regardless of how much or little overtime anyone works. Namecalling of those that choose to put a few extra dollars into the bank account is pretty childish, and disappointing to hear from our representatives. |
Fedsec, following your and others advice on this forum, will NOT stop the culling of one job let alone 200+ jobs. No matter what is done or isn't done, be it as it may, will not change the end game.
All the unity of the "brothers" won't change or stop a thing. How about the ALAEA and the other unions stand together. There seems to be a gap the size of a 747 between you guys. When you guys can get your act together, then maybe the workers will also. It's all very well for people to get up on their soap boxes and preach the "morals" of doing work or not doing work, especially when their job isn't at risk. How about focussing on the BIGGER picture, and not just the O/T? |
I don't think you read my last post.
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I think I get it. Company sacks 50 more than they need to then they rely on overtime to get the planes out on time. If people didn't work that overtime, what would happen FedSec? Do you think it may prevent a follow up round to save others the indignity of the unemployment queue?
People will not be selected to go based on how much overtime they do. How many people Qantas are able to release (that is sack) will be based on how many greedy pr1cks continue to work excessive overtime. We are finding it extremely difficult to push for a 35 hour week to save jobs when some people work more that 50 hours in a week. It's time for some of our members to start thinking about more than just themselves. I've sat a watched this thread for a while and stayed out of the debate. I thought the call to cull 204 Syd Engineers would be enough of a wake up for some people here to work things out but apparently that is not the case. This is not a moral issue. This is about common sense. If you wanna run away and pretend it is ok to cut the grass of your workmates, go ahead and do it. It will cost you all your jobs and I think that is more important than being called a name by someone who is a Representative. I am your Representative and I am telling you, excessive overtime costs jobs. If I need to insult you to wake you up then so be it, you need this advice because the obvious seems to have gone over your head. Now lets take a look at things. From what I understand, each day there are at least 10 people doing full shift call ins. That's 120 hours a day or 840 a week. 22 people will lose their jobs if this is maintained. That is, 22 of your workmates will not get a bloody cent in their accounts after they are sacked because of overtime others are working. Now I assume that most of you are pretty intelligent. Try using my methods to work out how many people would lose their jobs if more than 10 people on average each day do 12 hour call ins. Remember a standard week is 38 hours. You can sit around and pretend that 20 hours a week is bad but 12 is ok. You can pat each other on the back and stand together in defiance of the nasty people who are calling you names. You can even sit there and accept Excel Awards presented by Ashley Parnel for all I care. But don't think I will have any sympathy for you though if what you are doing is depriving another Engineer from feeding his family. |
Would have been an interesting day at ALG Head office it went something like this F^&king Qantas have F&*king screwed us . :mad:
Yesterdays advertisements now removed now the question is what's going to happen to current ALG employees now . |
Goatrider, that is it in a nutshell. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Quote QF94
How about focussing on the big picture and not the o/t ... gee that sounds vaguely familiar 94 Ill just run this by every body, still work the same amount of o/t, however take the same amount of sick leave, people get double dollars,you get paid for your sick leave, but the roster is effectively bought back to neutral hours or standard time worked. To spell it out the people working the o/t only fill in the sick leave void. I bet the situation wouldnt last a week before they realise they cannot afford to have another round of redundancies or even let go the amount allocated for this round. AJ was bleating to the press ( and got plenty of air time ) about death by a thousand cu@ts or a slow bake, but now their doing the same to the engineers and nothing is said. Maybe the people in the media/journos are starting to feel the same pain, with their layoffs. What comes around goes around . |
Ah , The Masked Goatrider , how are you Steve P ? And tell me who introduced the term"slow bake "?
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With quotes like the above don't be surprised when Qantas PR trots them out as complete justification as they have done in the past, for what they are doing now. Bottom line discussing of any 'plans' on this forum is stupid. But I see it time and again so I guess we're slow learners.
My advice is stay professional don't bring the profession into disrepute. The last thing I want on my future resume when they sack me is a tainted previous profession I seemingly have wasted my working life on. |
It seems that everyone has an opinion and advice on what should and shouldn't be stated on this forum in relation to the culling in Engineering. Quite frankly you can all write a thesis if you want but the reality is no-one is "imposing" anything on anyone and even if one tried it wouldn't make any difference.
We are all worried about the "right here right now" and couldn't give a rats about the future or any prospects for the next generation of our kind. The stampede to work overtime whilst our mates are being necked is a typical example of our lack of credibility when it comes to supporting one another and regardless if someone can do with the extra dough.....it's indefensible. Qantas know how weak we are when we feel threatened and they're simply using this strategy, with our capitulation, to achieve their aim. If this is the type of example we are setting for others who may one day fill our shoes, then I for one hang my head in shame. |
Where is the like button?
No not for you qf94 or 6000-ot. |
Back to the 8 hour roster system.
Seems to me to be a very good idea at the moment. See how many redundancies happen then. |
Qantas don't want Ideas they want everyone gone simple as that .
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Where is the like button? No not for you qf94 or 6000-ot. I can only laugh at the faceless screen names that can only come up with the above as their best. |
If yesterday was anything to go by it certainly is going to be a whole different world post cull.
Masses of holes in the licence coverage, composite crews with no avionic coverage meant ame's did nothing all day. No licence coverage for aircraft at all meant checks not started for up to 6 hours after arrival. |
QF94, an interesting concept.....
QF94,
A person who needs to be liked And then there are the black sheep. Who do they become? KR747 |
Acute Instinct... love your work! :D
QF94 et al.. whether those of us who choose not to feed at the OT trough say anything or not you will go on your merry way irrespective. Why do you care what anyone else thinks anyway, afterall you have a right to do what you consider appropriate don't you? I understand that everyone's circumstances are different, and who couldn't use a little extra cash at this time of year? On the other hand, if there is the slightest chance that what I do could affect the livelihoods of my colleagues, in a climate such as this, then perhaps I should give pause and consider the implications. I would never be so rude as to show my frustration to those who come in and work OT on my crew but I'll make a mental note, and in the unlikely event that I survive this cull I'll know who hasn't got my back. |
I would never be so rude as to show my frustration to those who come in and work OT on my crew but I'll make a mental note, and in the unlikely event that I survive this cull I'll know who hasn't got my back. Or are we just focussed on the easy targets? You're right though, I care for other people's opinions as much as they care about mine. In the big scheme of things, we're all Jacks. Doing O/T is not affecting anyone's livelihoods. The inevitable will happen, whether it's done or not. |
QF94, if someone is relieving at an out station, presumably they cover his/her absence with overtime if required. Same for people acting in higher roles. I don't get asked to fill in at out stations, I don't get asked to act in higher duties, but I do from time to time get asked if I am available to work overtime. This is something I can control.
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> Home > Campaigns
Qantas Engineers' Alliance Together, we are committed to working for a strong, sustainable future for our industry. We are calling for: Genuine engagement on fleet and maintenance planning A commitment to maintaining aircraft in Australia On-going skills training and quality jobs Infrastructure investment for a strong Australian engineering capability A plan to take advantage of maintenance opportunities in the Asia-Pacific We have launched a new website.* Check it out. What happen to this alliance,all talk but no action |
What happen to this alliance,all talk but no action |
Originally Posted by bagus
> Home > Campaigns
Qantas Engineers' Alliance Together, we are committed to working for a strong, sustainable future for our industry. We are calling for: Genuine engagement on fleet and maintenance planning A commitment to maintaining aircraft in Australia On-going skills training and quality jobs Infrastructure investment for a strong Australian engineering capability A plan to take advantage of maintenance opportunities in the Asia-Pacific We have launched a new website.* Check it out. What happen to this alliance,all talk but no action Perhaps there are plenty willing to talk but few willing to get stuck in? Perhaps people just don't care. Perhaps it's all just too hard. |
Perhaps the head of the union behind this alliance is sleeping with the Qantas spokesmodel.
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"Supervision of Maintenance" ?
A person (the supervisor) is supervising the carrying out of maintenance
done by another person if the supervisor: is physically present at the place that the maintenance is being carried out; and is observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary to enable the supervisor to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly; and is available to give advice to, and answer questions about the maintenance from, the person carrying it out. How the hell does not being on the scene still fall within the realm of the above requirement regarding Supervision? Please explain it to this Industry veteran of 52 years, and Multi Category LAME for 47 years. Regards, Big E. |
rtv, you are nothing but a troll. 10 posts in 4 years. Go away and take your list of names with you.
And whilst you are compiling your list go into the supervisors office and take the names down of all the acting supervisors, then when you read the workload record all the names of the acting leading hands, because no doubt they would be scum to you as well. It annoys me that everyone is banging on about the O/T but the select few golden children on out station postings and higher duties are being left alone. Either put everyone in the same boat or move on. Extra cash is extra cash no matter how it is earned. Steve, we all know the associations stance on O/T but what is on these other issues? |
It's called spin.
It's actually called horse****. :D
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More likely the AWU is selling the workers off
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To all my fellow LAMES,
I would like to pass on my own opinion, it may not be expressed as eloquently as some on here or u might not agree, but i reckon its pretty simple. We have inherited some pretty good conditions from our forefathers & they had to fight pretty dam hard so we can enjoy these benefits! so out of respect for these inherited conditions( and our mates in the firing line) its pretty easy to say 'NO to the OT'. Also as a Dad i'm pretty conscious of the moral obligations i'm trying to instill in my kids and to try to do whats right by others and not the usual "i'm right jack", its gonna be pretty hard for all of our kids to get a descent job in this country the way it is and I don't want to contribute to the corporate greed thats happening all over the place. We can all make a difference and it starts with yourself! |
Whom do they become?
QF94,
Who do they become? Similarly, an alcoholic's best friend is always another alcoholic. They congregate, form alliances, they network. Network. Where you are true to others and not necessarily true to yourself. Whenever you here the word network, spoken from the mouths of the hungry, take note. Its the beginning of the end. Its also the beginning of the lies, the deceitfulness, the double meanings, the two faces or more, the double standards, the hatred of oneself, the onset of self doubt, and in the end , the one glaring question? Who am I? To all those that sleep on a bed of nails, get comfortable and familiar, and 'put some weight on the pricks'. Kindest regards to the true soldiers, KR747 |
Can everyone please keep in mind how unprotected industrial action is viewed these days by the industrial umpire, what the fines are, what constitutes it etc.
Just wait until there are planes going out late due to management's own doing then they bring out the pprune posts and potentially go after people on here to further sink the boot in using your own words as evidence. Don't expect advice from the alaea asking you to all stop doing OT or higher duties. Read the sticky post at the top for a guide on how the owners of this forum will help you out in any legal matter. Stay professional |
It annoys me that everyone is banging on about the O/T but the select few golden children on out station postings and higher duties are being left alone. Either put everyone in the same boat or move on. Extra cash is extra cash no matter how it is earned. Steve, we all know the associations stance on O/T but what is on these other issues? Do we support people taking up outstation postings? Yes we do. An Engineer who works in another port needs to be replaced at home. This creates the need for employment on his original crew. Do we support people doing higher duties? Yes we do. An Engineer who steps up needs to be replaced. This creates the need for employment on his original crew. Do we support those seconded? Yes we do. An Engineer who works in some useless secondment needs to be replaced. This creates the need for employment on his original crew. The people who accept these positions are doing nothing wrong and should be left alone. They are creating employment that can be filled in one of two ways. 1. With full time employees 2. With existing employees working additional hours above the 38 they are contracted for The ALAEA have been advised that Qantas will be reducing 204 Engineering positions in Sydney. We would rather the people on secondments etc.... be replaced with option 1. If you were one of the 204, I'm sure you would agree. If you are one of the other 700 or so, within 6 months you will also agree. |
The people who accept these positions are doing nothing wrong and should be left alone. They are creating employment that can be filled in one of two ways. 1. With full time employees 2. With existing employees working additional hours above the 38 they are contracted for The ALAEA have been advised that Qantas will be reducing 204 Engineering positions in Sydney. We would rather the people on secondments etc.... be replaced with option 1. If you were one of the 204, I'm sure you would agree. If you are one of the other 700 or so, within 6 months you will also agree. Engineers in SYD have been advised that QANTAS will be reducing 204 Engineering positions. All of us in SYD are potentially one of the 204 to go, and if we don't go now, it will be down the track. Jobs in QANTAS are slowly being whittled away, and have been for quite a number of years now. Section by section, port by port. SYDHM, MELHM, soon to be AVV, QDS, S.I.T. over the years, EOC, etc. Here we are talking about some people being banished for doing O/T, but it's OK to stand in for a higher duty or go on a jolly. What a crock, and talk about double standards. Just keep focussing on the few doing O/T, while your jobs are being stripped from you. When it comes to redundancies, unions are powerless to stop the shedding of jobs, no matter what form of protest you decide to take up to justify your own moral standing. |
With all due respect QF94 we'll agree to disagree.
600ft-lb... of course there is no OT ban. That would be unprotected industrial action. One cannot be forced to work OT however. There are many reasons why someone may not be available to work beyond their normal hours. It is imperative that given the current climate where anxiety, stress and uncertainty prevail that people manage their fatigue levels effectively, bearing in mind that stress can manifest itself in many ways and have a negative impact on their ability to carry out work and their relationships with family and colleagues. |
A person (the supervisor) is supervising the carrying out of maintenance done by another person if the supervisor: is physically present at the place that the maintenance is being carried out; and is observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary to enable the supervisor to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly; and is available to give advice to, and answer questions about the maintenance from, the person carrying it out. We are often asked about this "Supervision" question. When I have to explain it I like to go to a case that CASA made against a LAME. He lost his licence because of it. The LAME certified for the work of an AME in another hangar. We are talking two light aircraft here so small sheds that were side by side. From this I can say that the LAME must be working the same aircraft at least. Then the level of supervision comes in. "observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary" cannot mean that the work is not observed at all. If you could do this without observing at all, the word observing would have an optional connotation about it which it has not. Simply, as a minimum you must watch at least some of the maintenance as it is being carried out. You cannot comply with this legislation by only checking the result of the work without supervision. It says "to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly". It does not say "has been carried out properly". If you have seen a LAME certify for the work of an AME without providing the required supervision, please report them on form 500's or 2000's and get a copy to us. Now is not the time for pussy footing around and turning a blind eye to these indiscretions. Qantas will not stand by you if something goes wrong. If you won't lodge a 500 or 2000 because you are concerned that you may become a target of management there is another option. Fill all the details of one out but don't put your name on it. Fax it to us instead and an ALAEA Rep will lodge to internal report with Qantas. |
QF94 seriously......
QF94,
We, us, they, them? Find your feet, get a grip, then convey to the rest of us where you are coming from. In the mean time........ KR747 |
And people who accept to do O/T should be left alone also. These higher duties and outstation postings are usually temporary, so you fill those positions with O/T. If you wanna work massive amounts of overtime Qf94, that's fine. There is no ban on but please don't get on here and try to convince others that it is the right thing to do. It costs jobs. Pure and simple. You and your words are making it harder for another man to feed his family. Looking forward to reading your latest justification or excuse about 30 minutes after I make this post. |
We have inherited some pretty good conditions from our forefathers & they had to fight pretty dam hard so we can enjoy these benefits! so out of respect for these inherited conditions( and our mates in the firing line) its pretty easy to say 'NO to the OT'. |
If you wanna work massive amounts of overtime Qf94, that's fine. There is no ban on but please don't get on here and try to convince others that it is the right thing to do. It costs jobs. Pure and simple. When people start having a shot at others because they don't have the herd mentality, then something is amiss. Damm right, and in my day QF94 would be having lunch and smoko by himself. |
is observing the maintenance being carried out to the extent necessary to enable the supervisor to form an opinion as to whether the maintenance is being carried out properly; and
is available to give advice to, and answer questions about the maintenance from, the person carrying it out. These 2 points are very grey. Are you "available" if you are a phone call away? Forming an opinion as to "whether the maintenance is being carried out properly" could also happen in the smoko room. We all form opinions if an AME can do a job or not. I do agree with FED SEC and do not agree that work should not be carried out without direct supervision of a certifying engineer, but we all know the reality of what happens, what has been happening and what will happen. More importantly, a lot of people are going to find out how tough the world is out of QF. Good luck. |
Empire4, please explain how you can certify that a bolt has been correctly torqued over the phone.
Furthermore, CASA has crucified a pilot for the Norfolk Island ditching DESPITE discovering major nonconformities in his company's operations manual relating to fuel planning. To put that another way, you are totally and personally exposed if you certify for something you have not personally observed and if people die because of it, YOU will go to jail. Qantas won't lift a finger for you. QF94, the golden rule applies. How are you going to feel when some prick starts self justifying actions that grease the skids under you and your family's livelihood? |
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