Keg, I find it interesting that one part of the group have a case for aircraft Jepps but other parts use pilot issued Jepps. I have not been on a 737 flight deck in a while but I would imagine that its about as cosy as a Dash8 flight deck.

The pilot in question's back went out as he attempted to lift his nav bag out of the confined space next to his seat. He now is crippled by the injury and unable to work. It happened while on duty. He is entitled to compensation. Some of you are a heartless lot.

PT6A, in most cases, the pilot pays for his Jepps so it costs the company nothing. If the company provided ships libraries, that would cost the company money and they would have to increase airfares, not be able to remain competetive and have to sell the airline.

rmcdonal, it was a holdover from the short haul/ long haul thing. I think AN used to have pilot issued Jepps domestically too. QF being a long haul airline had aeroplane charts- probably due to the number of charts required to be carried.

Are you guys using aeroplane charts or do you have a personal set?

Personal set, with a company set for PNG Ops. Its the complete set as well not just company specific routes and ports.
There is always the talk of IPads (Probably the same talk in every airline in OZ) but I am as confident in that happening any time soon as I am of Mainline recruiting.

After 13 years at the pointy end, I've yet to pay. In fact I can't think of any airline that makes you pay for such an important tool of the trade.

NAV bags with wheels helps when you are walking around the terminal, but the don't help when you are putting the bag in or taking it out of the flight deck and this is when the injuries are occurring.

As a courtesy to the next pilot: when you leave the flight deck, slide the seat fully forward and also tilt it forward. This makes it easier for the next guy to slide their navbag in beside the seat. :ok:

I am aware that plenty of people have 'done their back' with a navbag over the years. This is the first time that I have heard of anyone claiming compo.

Do operators to FLI and KI still require that pilots load 55-65Kg bags of cray fish in and out of the aircraft whilst bent double?

OHS regs require the employer to forsee, without limitation, all possible health and safety threats to employees and mitigate against them.

This sounds like a threat that was forseeable. Unless they put in place controls to guard against this and the employee ignored them, the Company is liable. That is the law.

I haven't had to carry Jepps for a few years now. Medical problems aside (although certainly acknowledged), I'm not sure how any modern outfit, especially in a state such as Australia, can pass a QA check with a standard industry audit and knowingly have 1000's of manuals updated by thousands of different crew. I can certainly say the number of trip plate errors have been vastly reduced by having a company updated onboard library. Have a look at your company ops manual; Who owns the Jepp manuals? If they are owned by one of the Flight Ops departments, they should update them.
The obvious benefits-

I know your big enough to know how to update a manual by now, but?
Ok, I'm wasting my breath. Bring on the EFB?

Having to lift a 15 kg nav bag onto a shelf is a threat?

That's far from a difficult task for any reasonably fit person, and I dare say if you can pass your Class 1 medical it shouldn't be classed as a threat or problem.

Employers should have to provide a safe workplace, but I think this is the kind of thing that takes OH&S too far. Lifting an item the weight of a nav bag onto a shelf should not be classed as something that requires special procedures or assistance.

Edit: Sorry, I see from posts above he didn't have to lift it onto a shelf, but slide it out from next to his seat. That would require some twisting, I guess, but it's still not something I'd suggest is the company's problem. Any reasonably fit person should be able to do that.

The pilot who is sueing Virgin is 57 years old (sounds like he is about to retire and is trying to get as much money from the company as possible).

Has anyone noticed that the incident occurred in 2009 and the ipad didnt come out until 2010...

One former colleague has lost his career due to a back injury that presented on the flight deck, lifting & twisting his nav bag from it's outboard stowage. Another colleague had significant time off work due to a similar injury.

It's got nothing to do with whether one is fit, or has a Class 1 Medical, and everything to do with ergonomics.

Once again it's wonderful to see Aussie pilots supporting one another, not. :ouch:

Naturally !

It's not about pilots supporting one another or otherwise, just about what's reasonable to claim compensation for (fundamentally, blaming someone else for something that happens to you and getting them to pay).

If it's a clear foreseeable hazard that the company or responsible authority didn't take steps to prevent and someone gets hurt, then OK.

If it's something that would be generally accepted by reasonable people to be within the normal capabilities of a person, then maybe not OK.

Obviously that's the $64,000 question.

My personal opinion is that the incident as described isn't something the company should have to pay for.

This isn't an attack on the bloke in question or a suggestion that companies should be immune from responsibility, but clearly many things can happen to you at work, but not all of them are the company's fault, or indeed anyone's, just bad luck.

you've got it there, it's the leaning over twisting in the cramped space that is the 737 flight deck - do it over time and the risk is actually pretty large. Keg's post on page 1 sums it up. QF had a major oh&s crack down a few years ago and the 737 flight deck in all it's ergonomic glory was a hotspot with the bags. Also the action of reaching back/around (twisting, again.) to grab out the manuals throughout the day was also a contributor. Sounds like virgin is a sitting duck in this one...
so virgin folks, standby for an oh&s 'overview', fasten your cynicism.

pull-up-terrain

So age is now the deciding factor in deciding the worth of a claim. Unbelievable!

Quote:

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Has anyone noticed that the incident occurred in 2009 and the ipad didn't come out until 2010...

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With or without the iPad, Virgin (and by the sounds of it Qantas) were already well aware of the risks associated with the increasing Nav bag weights.
Ships libraries were being discussed well before this incident.
If you wish to base you 'learned decision' on what has been written in a newspaper prior to the case being heard then more fool you.

Capt Claret

Alas very few take a moment to walk in the shoes of another!

Whilst (yes whilst) my original post was tongue in cheek, I have only worked for one company that paid for my Jepps and am yet to work for anyone who has paid for my medical.

You mean all those primary school children forced to lug huge bags on their backs to and from school. Their parents must be idiots. Worse still with high school kids. I feel sorry for them all bending over with these ridiculous loads of books forcing them to crouch when walking instead of walking upright. Interesting case for class action (pun-geddit!)

I know of a captain that while twisting in his seat and reaching up and behind him to locate his headset, buggered his back so painfully that he had to be carried off the aircraft. He was out of action for several weeks despite visits to the medicos and acupuncture treatment.

Maybe he should have sued the airline for making the headsets hard to reach without twisting? Where does it all stop?