Actually T-Vasis, that is the quote. You seem to have missed the reason why.

Well , I disagree with most posters , Barry comes across as a honest , genuine bloke . He can look the at the camera without shifting his eyes unlike our mate from the ALAEA . I thought he did ok , did not rant threaten or abuse anyone . Well done Barry.

So Barry dropped the ball hey?

Did he word all his responses as well as could be? Maybe not.
Did he articulate things from an employee's perspective as best as possible? Maybe not.
Did he at least have the balls to defend his troops, to try his best to explain things from a workforce perspective, did he try to remain professional while placed in a position where every word, movement and facial twitch is analysed by the enemy???? Absolutely !!!

So you know what, he has my support, and he has the support of many members. Perhaps those who are so critical of his performance would like to step up to the plate and have a go themselves?

It's all about the message!
 

You can't blame the Union reps, there's so much going on, so many side issues and so much confusion.

What you have to do, and I'm sure your Union leaders are looking at it, is to decide on ONE message ... and then try and sell it.

Qantas is doing it ... we have the right to run our business and we need to reduce costs to run it at a profit.. Much of the public agree with this, and the corporate world certainly does. In fact, logically, who wouldn't agree with it?
How do you counter that message?

First, get rid of all the peripheral messages ... like we deserve a wage increase because of how well we work, or how we do it better than anyone else. We all feel like that.

For me, this is the message ....

Yes, corporations, in principle, have the right to decide their own direction. However, there are certain corporations that have an additional national responsibility?

Qantas, because of how its present entity was formed, and because of the additional responsibilities attached to that creation, is such a corporation.

Although those responsibilities may be more onerous than those of other public companies, they were known or implied, and accepted, at the time of creation.

Those responsibilities mean that Qantas is, in fact, owned not only be the shareholders, but by every Australian.

Yes, the shareholders own the profits, however, every other Australian is entitled to the employment opportunities, the supply opportunities, the training opportunities and the prestige offered by the Qantas brand being wholly based within Australia.

Moving any of those opportunities offshore is stealing from Australian pockets.

The poor bloke was probably buggered, fair dinkum, these blokes have been up for days, give him a break, he probably needs to hit the sack for a few hours, and then have a few beers, before he goes back to the circus.

So, Joyce is a failed pilot!

No greater enemy to professional aviators.

I didn't think he did that bad. He is exhausted I think.
I just got the impression he thinks what most do now. Its pretty much game over.
Qantas have to only drag it out now and then they know that a FWA panel will highly unlikely make the company sign any security clauses. And thats all Joyce wants! Who cares about a 2-3% pay rise when those people wont be around to get it in 5 years and the new asia world workers are on 60% less. I hope i'm wrong mind you, but I think Barry looks a bit like another past defeated pilot/spokesman from 1989.
Good on ya Barry for taking a stand though. Take a bow!

Barry has been run ragged the last few months. He was flying home the night before the AGM, (actually flying Qantas customers instead of plotting to cynically disrupt them like some others..) and I doubt he has had much sleep in the intervening few days.

He has done everything he could. Give him a break.

Barry has done a fine job, he must be very very tired, as must the other Union Officials.

Fine, but if there is a message to be got across, then have a reserve who isn't tired and wheel them out.

Well, many thanks to TIMA9X for posting the video. If I hadn't watched it, I would have believed the view that MonsterCO1 (IIRC) presented.

I now think that that view was overly harsh and I think that Barry did as well as can be expected for someone in the hot seat, without it being his full time job responding to media interviews (I presume). Yes, there were a few ummms and arrrrghs, but it's not easy (having done it on one or two occasions) being interviewed and thinking on your feet.

So, from me, well done Barry, you did AIPA proud.

Gee you're everybody's favourite boss eh? I bet your workers absolutely adore you and go that extra mile to do their best for you. :rolleyes:

And it's not "98% of the shareholders". It's "98% of the votes". They're not the same thing. Everybody knows that, and treating us all like idiots will do you no favours. Voting in listed companies' AGMs is heavily skewed towards institutions. 10,000 individual shareholders can vote against a motion because they think it's a disgrace, but a couple of big institutions can wipe that vote totally off the map. It has always been that way.

And institutions generally don't care what a company does, or how it does it, as long as it makes them money, or they are promised it'll make them money.

Yeah yeah, I know. Don't feed the trolls. But it's like seagulls. Sometimes you just can't help but chuck them a couple of chips just for amusement.

Now it all makes sense...:rolleyes:

PS: From what I have seen, I think both Barry Jackson and Richard Woodward have done a great job speaking on behalf of AIPA.:ok:

I have to agree, please guys don't start beating each other up at this stage of events, BJ is a pilot first then a TV personality. He did a good job last night considering all the events over the weekend... Don't feed the trolls on here with the notion that we are fighting each other... at the end of the day AJ is on the nose with the punters and many in the media. I believe AJ will be under a lot of pressure in the next month or so explaining the poor performance of all departments within the Q group, and it will not be just long haul.. every dog has his day, ours is coming.

Capt Kremin,
365 divided by 56 equals 6.5178571 so is it not true that there are approximately 6.5 bid periods in a year therefore your calculations of an annual salary is 4% less than it really is. I understand that there are 56 days in each roster period, is that not true?

Clotted, 6.5 is correct. My mistake. NP..as I add you to my ignore list...blow it out your @r$e!

NewPiper,

I put on the uniform as often as the company rosters me to put it on. If the frequency doesn't thrill you talk to the company for their rostering, the regulator for daring to impose legal limits or management for daring to create great inefficiencies in the business to suit an ideology.

NewPiper

You are just plain ignorant.

Standard

A ride around te paddock on my educated horse would do you a world of good by the sound of your very graphic post.

How many times have heard this lame excuse ?
My point is.............I do not give to figs about your dispute when travelling.........and probably even less when home.
What have we heard so far ? :
1/ It's not about money...........it's about jobs ! 2,6% pay rise, although far from being astronomical, is a nogo in a 200 Million losing operation. Your share of cost cutting is 8 Million and top this with what Joyce should put into the pot instead of a pay rise which, I'm sure, he will come to regret.
Don't get me wrong. If your airline was able to pay you 1000 000 AUD to fly the A380 and still make money, I would only say lucky you. No pangs of jealousy. I am very happy with my life thank you very much.
Do not make the mistake everyone contributing on this threads and not sharing your opinion is either jealous or a frustrated pilot who didn't make it to Qantas. Just for the record.

Then this spoiled brat claim about better staff travel. I have no recollection of Qantas being greedy with staff travel.

But then, the market seems to have liked the lock out, Qantas share up 4 % and where does the money to buy planes come from ????

You want to keep the jobs in Australia ? Well then, adapt to what the competition does..............or renationalize Qantas and let the tax payer chip in.
You will discover that it takes a lot more than wearing a red tie or make unnecessary PA annoucements, to impress a very fickle travelling public to which I belong.You are surely just as fickle and greedy when it comes to spending your money when you buy a car or whatever.
I want the price to be right, not risk my life and get home on time. Some others than QF seem able to achieve just that at a lower cost.
No one wants to see QF disappear, but it seems you and Joyce are doing a pretty good damn job to achieve just that.
It's high time arbitration sets in and stops you guys from clubbing each other to death.


And please, do not use one event to sugar coat your claims. I would take your remark from Richard de Crespigny............certainly not from you.

NP
 

Are you also factoring in the 'value' of missing:
- important events at home,
- public holidays,
- time wasted in places while obligations/people at home need you?

Allowances? Are you suggesting that people absent on duty should pay for the privilege too? Public servants, military, pollies, businesses and, I bet, even you wouldn't do it so what's your point?

Have you walked a mile in the shoes, or just like to imagine you have? You're sounding like some 'rubber desk Johnnie' who thinks crew go on a holiday every week! :rolleyes:

Hey Piper, did your wife leave you for a Qantas pilot. :uhoh:

It's All About the Message
 

Peuce: YES THIS IS THE MESSAGE THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!

I am reading & hearing this more & more in regards to the QF situation. It is becoming obvious that the $200 million figure for QF long haul losses is becoming an accepted fact, by a large percentage of the press & the general public at large.

People need to remember that this figure is simply the figure announced by QF to support their position & has not been proven to be fact by QF in any way, shape or form.

Actually, the accuracy of the figure has been questioned by many, ever since it was announced by AJ.

This is a perfect case of unsubstantiated information becoming fact. You put the information you want out there & then repeat it as often as you can. Eventually the press picks it up as fact & runs with it & then the general public start to consider it as fact as well.

The only way to reverse the perception is to do the same process in reverse. Question the accuracy of the figure over & over again. Ask for QF to justify the figure over & over again. Ask the questions regarding JetStar costs being transferred to the QF long haul accounts over & over again.

Eventually the mainstream press will pick it up & run with it & then the public will be asking the same questions in their minds also. Particularly now, as both the press & sections of the public are ready to go after QF & AJ.

Yeah agree he came across a bit disheveled and awkwardly, although you have to forgive the man given he was up till 2am for the FWA verdict- he clearly looked exhausted from my tv set at what was a 2200 interview after a few very long days....

Woodward does seem to have a better finesse to his speech as well as manerisms , evident on the 7pm project other night where he was faced with what id rate one of the dumbest questions of the year by George Negus equating pilots to bus drivers- Woodwards response " I fly a 327 million dollar plane insured for 5 billion with 457 lives onboard' and that sir is called ownage!

Ive said it before on other threads but here we go:

There are many in Qantas, and I am talking directly about engineers and pilots, who are grossly overpaid and grossly under worked and who are also represented by some of the dumbest, most backward unions on the planet. These union meatheads still talk about the Eureka stockade like it was their finest hour.... when all that happened was their smelly-bearded union forefathers were mowed down in a hail of musket balls and life went on as usual the next day. Is that still your gauge of a successful IR campaign?

You clowns dont stand a chance of winning and will still have your bottom lips stuck out in another 20 years about this issue, just like those who frequent these pages still carping about the big strike of '89. Yep, that should have taught you a lesson but obviously you are slow learners!

Pathetic!

Interesting point. Now the company will almost inevitably get the Workplace Determination they were so desperately seeking, understanding the process becomes important.

A workplace determination is where a full bench of FWA formally hears supporting arguments from both sides regarding the issues in dispute. I recall writing to Qantas a letter with 61 questions regarding the announced 200 million International loss. They never answered them.

The answer to these questions and the supporting evidence will most certainly be subpoenaed in view of the full public in about a months time as part of the determination hearing. If anyone here thinks that the facts about Qantas can be hidden forever, please think again. This dispute (which is not just about 3 EA Agreements) has a long way to run yet. We won't win every battle. Not every day will be a good day. Your union Reps will make mistakes but the truth will set us all free.

The other thing that annoys me is QF management, the press & even some of the posters here, crapping on about pilot salaries.

Forget about the individual salaries for a minute & take a look at the cost impact on ticket prices. As Barry Jackson pointed out in his interview, pilot costs are about 2% to 4%. So if you take a $4,000 international ticket for example & use the higher figure of 4%, the cost of both the captain & first officer in that ticket is just $160. Using a 50% savings on pilots salaries (and they are not going to get anywhere near that by offshoring or anything else), saves a mere $80 on that ticket!

Putting the individual salaries out there, along with quoting the highest salary they can get away with, is a smokescreen to hoodwink the public, the politicians & the press into believing that pilot salaries are a major factor in the cost issues the company claims it is having.

Here's another thing that is in danger of becoming fact if it is repeated often enough:

New Piper said:
The shareholders were asked to approve the CEO's salary increase. 98% of votes cast were in favour of that. The shareholders were not asked to vote on any restructuring plan.

Fed Sec,

As much as I love reading your posts, it maybe worthwhile keeping a low profile at the moment regarding your plans and tactics?

You don't want to be giving the other side any free kicks.

I'm sure all 3 unions have a plan mapped out with multiple scenarios, which included the lockout. So don't give them any information via this forum. We know they read it!

You guys still feeding this management troll "oldPiper" :ok:

NewPiper, victor two and Me Myself:

It is a beautiful sunny day outside here (in Sydney at least). It is not safe for you to venture out, or as you well know, you will turn to stone.

I just have your best interests at heart, that's all........

Yes I agree buddy and have been extremely tight lipped about what will happen next. The post you refer to was well thought out and discussed beforehand. Qantas do read this forum it important for them to understand that these things will come out one way or another.

Steve,
I agree with kotoyebe. Time to enact 'stealth mode', go to ground, plan the next movements and not give the parasites anthing they can use against you.
Besides, you hardly have to utter a word at the moment, AJ's actions have brought enough attention on themselves from a variety of individuals. Sit back and watch the ball of string unravel at their own hands.

You obviously don't understand the issues at play here by that comment. The competition are government sponsored airlines which aren't real competition. Geoff Dixon was always bitching about this problem but it fell on deaf ears in Australian government circles.

jetbest

yeah buddy, missing important occasions and home family time is why airline pilots, especially longhaulers earn good bucks generally.

We all miss out on the things you mention - the argument is why a QF pilot thinks he needs to be paid more than a singair/thai/china/NZ pilot to suffer the same lifestyle problems.

If it sucks being away from home, will more money really help. And if more money aint forthcoming, then aint market forces speaking to you?

Well leaving aside tax and cost of living issues which make that a grossly oversimplified comparison, most LH QF pilots are not in dispute with Qantas because they "think they should be paid more than everyone else".

To most QF LH pilots including myself it doesn't matter a rat's (pardon the pun) what we get paid if Alan Joyce is hell bent on sending our jobs offshore, shrinking the premium brand significantly, and causing our Qantas career prospects to grind to a complete halt (which they already have right now). It just doesn't matter what we get paid. I don't care a fig what I get paid until the above problems get addressed because until I have a career and long term job, pay is entirely "notional"!

It wouldn't matter if I took a 50% pay cut. Joyce wants to wind up mainline as much as he can and send the jobs to Asia regardless. There is no point in negotiating anything at all if he is going to do that. If he decides not to send mainline business across to Asia, then we can start talking efficiencies, working harder, who gets paid what, etc. But until then, it simply doesn't matter. You're debating pay scales for an Australian job which is about to cease to exist!

How come I can earn more flying for China Southern base here in Australia?:confused:

A330 Captain.

My mates overseas on similar aircraft earn more than I do.:ugh:

The whole pay argument is a furphy!:hmm:

Esp if $US rate changes back to 75cents [or 50 cents!:eek:]

You're all making this too complicated.

It costs Overseas Airline Alpha $x per pilot (or engineer, or cabin crew).
It costs that pilot $y to live in Alpha ... and he walks away with $z left over

It costs Qantas $2x per pilot (or engineer, or cabin crew).
It costs that pilot $2y to live in Australia ... and he walks away with $z left over

So, generally speaking, the staff of all airlines have a similar financial outcome.

However, Qantas doesn't want to pay $2x ... it only wants to pay $x ... and play in the same playpen as all the other cheap airlines.

However, we are saying to Qantas that they can still pay $2x and make a decent profit ... IF, they continue to accept nothing less than technical and operational excellence. That is what will RE-build the brand and what will warrant a premium fare price.

History has proven that many people WILL pay a premium for excellence.

Tankengine,

QF A330 Captain?