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Sunfish you lose credibility when you throw your toys out of the pram and resort to name calling simply because someone has a different view to yours. |
Can they attribute the losses of winding-up JHK to FY14 when they gave no such guidance to the market that this was a possibility ? I don't know. If you are going to have a bad year, make it a shocker. |
Thanks 1A, I didn't know that.
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Well QF have got alot of answering to do now their joint partner - China Eastern has turned their back on them, TO START THEIR OWN LCC!
More here. |
Interesting indeed, although China Eastern have been quoted as saying they are looking for a strategic investor in their proposed LCC! Qantas/Jetstar Hong Kong?
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turned their back?
Why would that be such an obvious conclusion? My Machiavellian side suggests otherwise...
After BCG helpfully derailed the J*HK process by fully displaying the arrogance of youth :mad:, China Eastern gained unexpected access to a reputably experienced LCC set-up team (sans BCG) that allowed them to advance their schedule for a domestic Chinese LCC before too many other players get a foothold. I don't understand why people think that China Eastern see the issue as a binary decision between J*HK or a domestic Chinese LCC. := Why wouldn't you have a LCC strategy that allows you to grab both ends of such a significant market pair as HK and mainland China? Moving in both camps must lessen the overall risk of failure in one place or the other. Turned their back? I don't think so... :E |
Companies can launch all the low cost carriers they want, but the issue is that Hong Kong's airspace is saturated. The 'cousins' up north have, predictably, not released any airspace since their takeover in 1997, and one line of CBs shuts the joint down for hours. I won't even start on the typhoons. The ATC delays have got worse over the last five years, and I speak from experience.
The full service carriers with widebodies are flat out making a go of it, let alone yet more cheapos with smaller aircraft. |
High Rollers - High Risk?
Updated 17 Sep 2014, 3:55pmWed 17 Sep 2014, 3:55pm Australian casinos and the threat posed by organised crime.
Originally Posted by Four Corners
MGM owned a major casino on the Atlantic City strip. It wanted a Macau licence by partnering with Stanley Ho's daughter, Pansy Ho.
This triggered a probity investigation by local regulators to examine whether Stanley Ho would exercise undue influence over the joint venture. The four-year investigation was painstaking. And it was not the first time that Ho's children had come under scrutiny from casino regulators. Sometimes they were approved and other times not. SANDY BOUCHER: It's true that, that some of, er, Stanley Ho's children have applied for licences and they've been refused. LINTON BESSER: Sandy Boucher is a former Royal Hong Kong Police detective, now in the private sector. He has worked on several casino regulator investigations that probe Macau and its underbelly. SANDY BOUCHER: I think the primary issue that they would have been dealing with is: who is their father? In other words, they would have been seen as fronts in those days, as a, as a way to get around the regulatory issues that Stanley Ho himself clearly had. LINTON BESSER: In 2010, New Jersey regulators found Pansy Ho's associations with organised crime posed too great a risk. Authorities here ordered MGM to either sever its relationship with Stanley Ho's daughter or to leave New Jersey altogether. It chose the latter and it promised to divest its interest in this Atlantic City mega-casino. LINTON BESSER: Late last week, after Pansy Ho had removed herself from day-to-day management of the venture, New Jersey allowed MGM back into Atlantic City. Back in 2008, the Victorian gambling regulator found Lawrence Ho was not under the ongoing influence of his father. It described its investigation as "rigorous" but, unlike in New Jersey, the details of the Victorian investigation were never made public. LAWRENCE HO, CO-CHAIR AND CEO, MELCO CROWN ENTERTAINMENT LTD (archive): I think we have a wonderful partner in, you know, Mr James Packer and Crown Limited. (Footage of James Packer and colleagues officially opening City of Dreams resort, Macau, 2009) |
Fiasco continues
The executives responsible for this ongoing fiasco should lose their heads:
Jetstar HK off to rocky start PG |
Originally Posted by Popgun
(Post 8910948)
The executives responsible for this ongoing fiasco should lose their heads:
Jetstar HK off to rocky start PG |
They've still got more A320's than JQ Pacific had when they kicked off in Vietnam! :}
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"As the establishment of Jetstar Hong Kong is taking longer than initially expected, the sale of aircraft under the aircraft sale agreements will optimise the fleet plan in the short term," Shun Tak told the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. Read more: Jetstar HK off to rocky start |
I know where there is a cheap 1966 model C172 they could lease if they want to offload the last A320 to create some cash-flow !!
Role on.... |
Think of the fuel savings! |
It is perfectly clear that Qantas will lose every cent it invested in Asia, however it's the opportunity cost of the Asian ventures that saddens me.
All the management and Board time wasted on this wild goose chase can never be recovered and could have been far better spent on the mainline product. |
Nearly there Alan ! I know Ive said this before mate but need another 20 mil and it's all fixed . You got a pen mate i got a couple account numbers for you to write down .
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No matter what it costs,
No matter what it takes, and Contrary to all known logic, It WILL come to fruition. Even a box of rocks could see the folly in this. |
This saga reminds a bit of the Kenny Roger hit, The Gambler
Every gambler knows That the secret to survivin' Is knowin' what to throw away And knowin' what to keep ....................... ....................... You've got to know when to hold 'em Know when to fold 'em Know when to walk away And know when to run The trouble is the clowns in charge of the circus don't know what to keep or throw away, or, when to fold and run away. |
I wonder what Jane has to say about all this.
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A LAUGH!
HAPPY VALLEY WAN CHAI CHECKERBOARD NIGHT NOODLE LADIES JADE MARKET PANSY OCEANIC SAME DAY LAUNDRY SERVICE AT SPECIAL PRICE AIRWAYS - just ain't goin nowhere. delusional dot kai tak at whitecoat dot org
The MILLIONS lost over this vs the money that is being saved on QF by there being no trays in E/Y class on 16 hour flights, less dunny's, more seats, less cabin staff and them getting 15% less allowances is criminal. The entire Leadeship, Board and EXCO people should be in jail. Oh and that pink and red. WTF? Qantas's Jetstar Hong Kong venture down to one plane |
Looks like the HKG ATLA has denied the application for a licence for Jetstar Hong Kong on the basis of the level of foreign ownership ie QF
This is proving to be an expensive exercise for Joyce. If it was anyone else they would have fallen on their sword long ago. |
I'm looking forward to the triumphant J* HKG profit announcement on the front page of Qantas Pravda. There is no doubt that brilliant decisions from Management have once again saved the day.
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Think of the money they'll save with no airline and no staff?
I just feel for the staff who got caught up in this franchise. You would have thought the company would have done its due diligence before embarking on such an experiment. I particularly dislike the way Jane signed off the company announcement with 'warm regards' after admitting it's been torpedoed. It should have been 'yours sincerely'. This shows a complete lack of judgement in my opinion. |
I don't know, the language in the latest company missive seems to have an underlying tone that they are about to pull the pin altogether. They have blamed all those other local airlines and said that they can't understand the rejection as they only own such a small piece. This together with them asking us to support our Hong kon colleagues during such a tough time makes me think that this was the last shot.
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Publicly Qantas will be disapointed with the decision. Privately they will be content.
The world has not stood still for 4 years. The business case for Jetstar HK is not what it was 4 years ago and they now have other better uses for their capital and resources. After a 3 year delay, with all the HK slots gone, with an un-supportive local administration, Jetstar HK was going to be a struggle. Fast forward the 787-9. |
No, your right Beer Baron, in just the same way that QF International was in "Terminal Decline", until it was saved with the stoke of an accountants pen.
One has to wonder if there was a connection. Losses can't be eliminated, however, they can be transmuted. Was the QFI loss the toxic waste barge that carried away the groups financial sins?
Originally Posted by CamelSquadron
Jetstar HK was going to be a struggle.
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Fast forward the 787-9. |
Camel Squadron, QF senior management are now publicly stating that JQ are keeping the -8's and not getting any -9's - they are all planned to go to mainline. |
You are just figuring it out now? |
I think you have it round the wrong way CamelSquadron, business conditions deteriorated because of the establishment of Jetstar Hong Kong. Direct cause and effect.
But realistically, was it ever going to be allowed to fly? Many argued on these pages, that frankly it didn't ever stand a chance given the Swire groups grip on the aviation market in Hong Kong & no doubt tight connection to the CCP. Losses in Vietnam, Japan & a few miniscule profits in Singapore. If the rumors of the figures of few, now former group managers are close to being true then the total losses for the entire Jetstar experiment are eye an watering $1.6B. The only clawback is a sale of QF's 1/3 stake in Jetstar Japan as a trading asset for some $600M Asia has been a business graveyard for the white man for a long time, right or wrong, that's just how it is. But, the Masters of the Universe thought they knew otherwise. |
It may be a graveyard for the White man, but who owns Swire?
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But I thought it was a faaaaaaannnnnntastic buisness ?
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Yep, fully aware of the history of mercantilist triangular trade in cotton/opium/textiles/silver between Manchester/India/China & the East India company.
Notice I said that likely they had a tight connection to the CCP? I should have been more precise, its the graveyard of the outsider white businessman. Swire are don't want competition, they never have & will ruthlessly protect their patch. A quick google search will reveal the sordid history of the family. They are fully integrated into the power structure of the region. |
I think you have it round the wrong way CamelSquadron, business conditions deteriorated because of the establishment of Jetstar Hong Kong. Direct cause and effect. |
Rubbish
You can round around about how lucky it was not to eventuate, but really heads should role...Joyce, JQ CEO, both should be gone, the absolute waste of $$$ for no out come, why would you let them run a business, surely the board should question the direction of JQ....Time to re evaluate the operation and put JQ to the dogs....JQ Japan is a loss maker too much competition...Time to do what ANZ did, invest in the core Airline & make $$$
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Originally Posted by CamelSquadron
(Post 9025112)
WOW. That Jetstar HK must be one very influential business.....it has changed the asian market without making a single flight.......:)
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Jetstar HK...capital light..is all one hears...minimal losses etc.
Perhaps someone smarter than I can explain who gets the prickly end of the pineapple on the fleet disposition. So far 8 brand new A320's have been sold off the parking lot in Toulouse. Catalog price is USD 94m a copy. QF got a good discount due the large commitment they made in 2011 for the purchase of 110 of the type. Sail away price of about $70m. There has been no disclosure of the price on the first sale of 6 of the JQHK fleet but the last two went for $41.5m a copy. All have ended up in the hands of Chinese interests. So half a billion dollars of kit has been recycled at a 40-50% discount. Where does this show up and in who's books? Would it be fair to assume that the Chinese investments/loans in JQHK are already covered via these transactions? |
Interesting to read that the decision was based on the fact that Jetstar Hong Kong is not majority owned by local interests regardless of what the financials say because they could never make an operational decision without the input of Australian based investors.
This to me means that the AOC will never be issued as ALL the Jetstar franchises are run from Melbourne. All I can say is that it is actually good for the Qantas group that a regulator has finally stood up to this smoke and mirror show. I am sick of Qantas saying that they are just minority shareholders in these other airlines when most of the time they are giving interest free loans to some local 'businessman' who then uses it to purchase a majority share in the franchise and has absolutely no say in how the airline is run. JH says their investment in Jetstar HK is only $10 million dollars, I would say that this is certainly 'bending' the truth, not that we will ever see the true exposure reported. |
Suspect this lot are unravelling so hang in there.
If there has been any "bending of the truth" then it will come out as the rats try to get to the lifeboats. |
Oldie Onion
Just for the record JHK was 2/3 foreign owned. China Eastern is a mainland Chinese carrier based out of Shanghai. I still see AJ is spinning crap in the press about HK not allowing competition. If the roles were reversed and CX applied for an Austrailian AOC to operate internationally out of Australia, he'd be the first to squeal like a stuffed pig to the Australian government. Pure hypocrite. |
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