Strike breakers
 

I understand that a leading european crewing company is having meetings with "the nudist" over the next few days to discuss the supply of strike breakers.

Stay tuned.......

Strikes are different these days.. not the traditional type of stop work.

Maybe the unions /workers could get their point across more effectively to mgmt after all attempts at talking have failed if strikes were like in days gone by, stop work style, and in our industry, planes parked and only the birds flying.

well, if they're dealing with the nudist we'll have no problems at all :}

Legalities of Pilot Strike Breakers
 

I was just pondering this morning after reading another thread, is it even possible to have pilot strike breakers come from external contracting firms?

If they came directly in to a company during a strike they wouldn't be route qualified, so wouldn't really be legally allowed to fly those sectors (if my interpretation of the CAO's is correct) and I'm sure that the unions would have cause to be upset if a bunch of contractors would start showing up and taking up C&T time to get route qualified.

I know some of this happened back in the 80's, but not entirely sure of what ended up happening, so thought I'd pose the question. :)

Wasn't a problem for the airlines in 1989-90.

Suggest you search for a few threads on the Dispute and form your own opinion. Mind you, you will need to wade through a lot of diatribe but the story is reasonably easy to tease out.

The Government makes and, therefore, can remake the rules to suit the need of the day. Some of the things done in 89-90 were nothing short of disgraceful.

I shudder to think of the consequences for the Qantas pilots contemplating significant industrial action in the present marketplace.

Understand this was looked into yesterday in the meeting between the Irish and the Nudist.

Biggles is correct. The rules will simply be varied. Remember the current minister is an avowed enemy of pilots after the flight deck access 'victory' last year.

The strike breakers will be paid huge amounts of money. Plenty of furloughed yanks (in particular) who have 'form' in this area.

AIPA is aware of the problem, and has it built in to its strategy.

I can't see them using strikebreakers, the public doesn't have much tolerance for this type of tactic anymore, this is basically why we have protected industrial action, it protects both sides. Qantas would just transfer everyone onto their "codeshare" partners anyway....and they have another airline that is the "star" of the group that they can use in asia and domestically to reduce inconvenience.

The Govt did rule out foreign labour during the last engineers dispute in 2008.

Strike could ground Qantas | The Australian

Bottom line is its going to cost the company LARGE amounts of $$$$$$$$
for any strikebreakers. :ouch:
Not good when the company is making wafer thin profits and crying poor
at the state of their business and how tough things are. :{
Reckless spending is out of control let alone the fines they are getting !!
If they don't try and protect the bottom line then I'm calling that a sub $2.00 share price will be seen soon. :(

For strikebreakers to be effective... there has to be a strike.

One would hope in the current climate at the airline that if the Strike Breakers were called in the Aircraft would not be signed out, the baggage would not be loaded, and the TWU might take an interest as well.

Read Capt Kremin's comment. Prevent history repeating itself.

Terrey......Hope has nought to do with it.

ANCDU you have a lot to learn!
The public couldn't care less if strike breakers work, because when it comes down to the line they live by the bugger-you-jack principle.
"I want to go on day X don't stuff up my plans".
Twenty years ago no one cared... why will they change now?
The government soon changed the rules to chop off the pilot's heads ... same party again.

Wouldn't matter what party was in. The public perception is that pilots are a privileged group of overpayed,glorified bus drivers. No sympathy means no one cares so the government at the time will do whatever it takes to win votes!
Nothing has changed. As has been mentioned on another thread, you have to organise a PR exercise and secure public support when threatening industrial action or else...................well, the duck season opened sometime last month!

In the LAME dispute of 2008 we faced this same problem. A company was opened up called Newport Aviation and started recruiting. They were restricted to Aussies who could work without 457 visas. The contracts were for 6 months, $60K for the period paid fortnightly and a $40K bonus on completion of the full term. A healthy sum for a LAME of $200k per year.

Of course we had some mates sign up to feed us back the info from the inside. Becasue of this we kept on faking our attacks to make sure Newport weren't called upon until after they had already engaged the guys for 6 months. They had to sign them all up for a second term before they had even stepped foot on a tarmac.

They had about 60 guys. Before the real action had even started, they had blown $6 million. AIPA will be aware of exactly what is going on with any strikebreakers as we are this time also.

Some of my mates pocketed the 100k and walked away without leaving home. I look forward to the free beer.

you'd better call in Brian McCarthy. He'll lead you to the promised land...:hmm:

What's the law in 2011 WRT secondary boycotts?

QF management will have to buy the necessary politicians in
order to successfully screw its pilots like AN management did
in 89. They'd only need one or two to be effective and keep the
unions in check (anyone remember that bloody Kelty?)

Be of no doubt whatsoever that scabs (oh dear, can they be
called that under the Oz PC nazi rules?) will come flocking in
from overseas, attracted to the high salaries that'll be given,
as well as the current strength of the AUD. The silver bodgie
and the fat man ensured DOT (I think its called CASA now)
issued Oz ATPLs to those dregs of dubious safety and ability.
Cigar smoke permeated DOT for a year or two after that to ensure
the scabs stayed put if they wanted to remain in the so-called
lucky country (I've never forgotten how the "regulatory body"
permitted its standards to be lowered for political reasons. I like
rubbing their grubby little noses in it from time to time when they
try coming the raw prawn, and I have no doubt they would do it
again when instructed to by their ALP masters).

Of course the Fat Man-orchestrated 89 event never had to happen
- AN/TN/QF pilots knew it, I knew it, Jimmy Bow Tie knew it, Feds
knew it, the media knew it, Trades Hall knew it, all except your
average knuckle-dragging ALP-voting d!ckhead in the street who
wanted pilots to be dragged down several pegs under the Cutting
Tall Poppies syndrome (a disease I believe still permeates down
there). Be of no doubt it will happen again if there is a next time.

One certainty anyone can bank on is the gullibility of the Oz public
in believing anything written in a newspaper, especially anything
written by "editorials" or "respected journos" in a form that "makes
sense". Even though News Corp have nothing to do with QF as far
as I know, if AIPA try anything they'd better really consider how
the political machinations of the Oz media operates above all else.

Lastly, its a no-brainer that Joyce is intent on dragging QF Mainline
down to the same mickey mouse standard of the domestics (or lower
if that's possible), and that :mad:hole won't give up without a hard
fight.

Secondary boycott provisions leave little room but I'm sure that there are dozens of ways things can be made difficult - procedure queries, discretionary stuff like the CC not calling for boarding while any Eng's/Caterers are doing anything etc etc - that would at the very least slow things down. I could also imagine the SMS and the likes of Repcon would be flooded with reports.

The real sad thing however is that after all the EBA stuff is signed and settled - it's a long way along a path of broken glass to restore trust/partnership.

Unfortunately with the little bloke still struggling to see over the top of his wallet and constantly crying poor/foul there is little faith or integrity. Added to that the inflamatory factually incorrect nonsense from the scaggy witch of worthless PR and the whole thing is a mess.

What's more with that magic $2 line getting even closer and must be almost at the point where the institutionals start putting real pressure on.

For all the unions involved the mandate is to be 200% professional and stand firm. The race to the bottom for the moment has been overtaken by the need for a dysfunctional Mgrs, Exec & Board to come up with the goods. The real power will be for the Unions to keep AJ & Co on the edge of the cliff looking down at the valley of failure for as long as possible.

The rules of the EBA game should have been the first agreement.

AT

Good post airtags.

Chart
 

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/.../westgraph.jpg

And here it is folks.
The magic chart showing the share price since its listing on the ASX basically back were it started.

If you had held since the float in 1995 and going of the closing price on 20/5/2011, you would have made roughly %10 in that time !!
And if you were an institutional investor getting the $2.00 issue price, then
congratulations you are all up about %5.

May as well have parked all those 100's of millions of dollars into interest bearing accounts during those last 16 years. :rolleyes:

Whats more of interest now is that according to various brokers the general consensus is that QAN is a BUY. However looking at the chart looks to me like another downtrend is playing out.
Interesting times indeed. :uhoh:

Wonder if Ms Wirth would like to explain this to the investors about how their investment has performed during this time?

Management is on top
 

The use of strike breakers during periods of dispute is not unusual. All the recent emotion about this from the frontline workers is a joke. Strike Breakers are part and parcel of life these days and they certainly do a wonderful job. It is imperative that our planes keep flying, our passengers remain happy, our KPI’s and bonus criteria is met and the shareholder remains happy. Not to employ Strike Breakers would be unwise, unethical and poorly planned.
Our Strike Breakers are extremely well trained people. They often perform a better job than the salaried full time workforce they are temporarily replacing and they are more highly skilled and far more adaptive and appreciative of the difficult financial environment we all work in.

Management believe that Strike Breakers should be included in future Enterprise Agreements and that the role of the Strike Breaker should have its own PD attached and form part of the organisations structure. This would allow management to widen the scope of productivity ensuring the shareholder is adequately cared for and incurs no loss to their portfolio value. The fact is that an aeroplane is easy to fly, an engine is easy to replace, and a couple of bags are easy to stack underneath. One does not need an overpaid workforce to fulfil this task. It is Management and HR that make an organisation continue to run effectively and profitably and the sooner that frontline workers realise this the better.

Yes, truly, the role of the Strike Breaker in modern business models is a highly valued and highly respected role. Management and the Strike Breakers look forward to future synergies and a strong bond.

The Boardroom Beckons

Spot on airtags. The greatest sadness in all of this is that managements only solution to the degradation in qantas market share is to attack employees.
Only now is the penny starting to drop with some of the "media types" out there that there are fundamental problems with the business and won't be solved by the current board due to their arrogance, inability to look further ahead beyound next years numbers, and to provide the illusion of doing something to somehow impress major institutional shareholders by taking on all of your employees whom management deem to be the reason why the wheels are falling of the qantas groups profitability.

The question I would put to Mr Clifford, Mr Joyce and the qantas board is simply,
Why should I fly Qantas internationally? And what problems do you have with the international operation?
It would be interesting to hear their responses. They wont identify the problems that they have created, they will only blame inefficient staff.
Not the fact that I can choose a number of different carriers that offer newer aircraft, more cabin crew compliment and a greater number of services per day from a multitude of Australian ports where Qantas either has one or none.
This our home ground for goodness sake! They wont identify that the reduction in international market share has been mirrored by the arrival of jetstar and the transfer of business to that operation. They wont acknowledge that more and more Australians are travelling now more than ever and they have positioned Qantas not to capitalize on this.

They will never get it I'm afraid. However, I hope the major shareholders do get it before it's too late.

Correct. I know AIPA and certainly most QF pilots are acutely aware of this. They have had a lot of time to formulate plans and look back at what not to do, to avoid history repeating itself.

If there is no strike, your strike breakers are useless but will cost you a lot of money.

Yes but that wont impact Exec bonuses because they had contingency plans against the masses, so they were always in control with a well executed plan.

Pity they never ask why they were where they were?Then again the level of delusion would be sustained.

Guess if we don't hear about a mass exodus on Monday then the mooted friday meeting of Fund Managers never happened?

This is going to get very interesting...

MIC, if in fact you are part of QF management in any capacity I think it's best you rethink some of your comments:

Since you are so highly skilled you better run back to your university studies and read up on the bits about organisational behaviour and keeping a work force motivated. While you're at it have a read of some case studies about Southwest and Continental (Bethune era) and discover how to engage your workforce and therefore increase productivity. You will discover some outstanding tactics to ensure a win-win situation that didn't involve handing out extra money. I don't believe this battle is about an extra 3% or some seats on a long haul flight, it is about respect. It is not within this country's norm to treat the workforce with disrespect and hope they obey, but then again maybe that is why you are trying to push into some Asian countries.

Maybe you could just have a look across the tarmac and see how Borghetti is going with his workforce. Once their cost structure has been sorted and Game Change plans fully implemented you are in for a world of pain. VA staff are in the majority paid less than QF, but that doesn't seem to affect motivation.

I'm not part of the QF or VA group, but I am an army of one. My business travels might be only worth a few thousand dollars a year, but that is a few thousand dollars less QF shareholders will see in their annual report this year. Listening to a few business travellers on VA this work I am not alone.

Some people just don't get sarcasm:ok:

Think about what $2 bought in '96 and what it would buy now.
I think things have about tripled in that time. Share price would need to be around $6 now just to hold something near value. I bought BHP around that time for about $10.
If it came to it, I would prefer to defer my travel than support scabs. I don't think the airlines would actually allow me to do this. I would probably have to do my dough.
All Australians have a dog in this fight, some just have smaller dogs.

Please don't be too harsh, as pilots we are required to make quick, no nonsense decisions in minimum time. We need to be fast at weighing up the facts and forming a response which can be impulsive at times.


It is called command decision making and is the cornerstone of all effective commercial pilots. :ok:

+1000 insightful post.

I'm no finance wiz, but I seriously doubt any super fund/managed fund or whatever holds any investment for 16 wks let alone 16 yrs! The only investors who do that are not very well educated mum & dad retail investors (finance wise that is). So statement re bank interest are just stupid and make us look stupid! Please, don't say Buffet as he wouldn't invest in an airline!

Management In Charge is doing a copy of THE MANAGEMENT on the FH forum, a not very good copy as well I might add!

Oh I'm loving this!
 

Pure gold MIC, you got another one, hook, line & sinker. Keep em coming.

Actually FOCX I disagree with you.
Take Capital Group Companies Inc.
Going from the last to first available reports on Qantas website, and it clearly lists them as one of the largest shareholders over those 10 years. So that one company alone disagrees with your 16 week suggestion.
And just looking at what that company does, they manage mutual funds and other investment portfolios according to their website.

There is still a few others on that list that have also remained during that time frame.

Out of interest Capital Groups % of share ownership during those years has been.
2000 = % 5.0
2009 = % 16.77
2010 = % 9.53

Also of interest is largest shareholder JP Morgan has reduced from %28.84 in 2009 to %23.61 in 2010. Now given this is a nominee holding it would be hard to tell just who it is for etc.

And Buffet might not invest directly in an Airline but he does have his hand in the Aviation Industry. He has money sunk into Flight Safety Intl and NetJets.
Either way I wasn't going to mention him on here.
Does this still make us look stupid ?
And if you didnt see after my interest comment there was a sarcastic little :rolleyes:

Really? Very weak troll. At best.
:rolleyes:

Budfox,

But were they holding those shares continuously, or were they trading, buying in and out and therefor not investing as such? If they were holding them continuously it sort of shows that they aren't very good at their job! 16 yrs is a bloody loooonng time to give a company time to prove itself. As to Buffet's ownership of Netjets etc, they're not airlines. If you're a Buffet fan you'll know he considers them to be the biggest waste of capital going.

As to 16 wks V 16 yrs, didn't it strike you that I wasn't being literal? 2009 if I'm correct QF shares went down to 1.36 or so, they buy in big and subsequently sell almost 1/2 their holding in 2010, they're not investing, that's trading, a big difference.

Qanchor,

if you are referring to me you got it wrong! I see what MIC is doing, I suggest you look at THE MANAGEMENT's post om the FH forum, you'll quickly see he pretends to be management. He did it so well after 3 yrs I started to hate his posts, which at the start I found very entertaining. MIC is nowhere near as good, not a criticism, just a fact.

I did actually say Buffet doesn't invest directly in an airline.

I see your point of selling in and out and Capital Group have been doing this.
Only in past years does it seem as I referenced that they are down to %9.53 from previous year 2009.

Whether or not they have been net long or short from as far back as 2000 they have been in the top shareholders that whole time.

If they were trading there would be a lot of appendix 3's ;)

Anyway the whole point of earlier post was just to highlight the share price back to 1995 levels so all good. Who knows what some of the big funds are doing anyway :)

Big kahunas was needed to buy at $1.36 but what the heck, whens its someone elses money no probs ;)

Budfox,

Further to my PM, no I didn't see your :rolleyes: at the end of the interest bit:ugh:. That's me butting my head for not reading your post properly!

Well, if you're talking Qantas.... It's been some time since I've been rewarded for my loyalty:ugh:.

Feel free to take a break from this thread for being a troll (and to spend a little more time in your "beckoning boardroom". Goodness knows, you need it :=:}
Come back when you give me a dividend.

This is a professional pilots' network. Not an incompetent management's network.

TID