Jetstar cadets grounded
 

Heard on the grapevine today that the checked to line jetstar cadets have been grounded UFN!!!!!

Interesting leading up to the next round of hearings at the senate!

I hope Jetstar is going to continue to pay them.

Is that due to the very heavy landing in the Gold Coast.

More to Follow

The Kelpie

The Kelpie
 

Kelpie

Can you fill in the gaps?

No but intend to find out.

More to Follow

The Kelpie

Must be a different reason!

MR stated at the Senate Inquiry he had complete faith in the J* Cadet program.

Really? Maybe just enough to pay back the bank.:uhoh:

FRQ CB

If true, then it will be great to see experienced guys sitting in the hold pool given a start date...hopefully on the Aussie EBA...

Put the champagne away guys I'm sure the BB AJ duo will find other ways.

Can somebody please enlighten me? Given that the scheme was only announced a few months ago I assumed that none of these guys could have been line checked already.

Does this also mean that there are a bunch of kids sitting on the ground at their flying school wondering what Jet Star is doing with their 'hard earned' cash?

FRQ CB

CB

That is exactly the position.

Trying to find out if Oxford / CTC have suspended recruitment / training?

More to follow

The Kelpie

Does this affect all the cadets or only the ab-initio guys and girls?

The only cadets that are undertaking line training at the moment are graduates of the Advanced Cadet Program. If confirmed to be the case it is these that have been grounded.

More to Follow

The Kelpie

Would part of the reason for grounding the cadets be, because the ops manual states. All initial intake pilots require: 1500hr total time, 500hr on multi-engine aircraft & 250hr PIC.

However saying this, there is a clues that states: In some circumstances the Chief Pilot may determine that a pilot is sufficiently qualified and experienced for recruitment with less than the qualifications and experience.

So, if all of this is stated in their ops manual and no other internal company memos have been released which overrides the ops manual, are Jetstar operating illegally?

This is just my two cents worth, and I would hazard a guess that they have put in steps to side step the ops manual and legally(not safely) operate the cadets in Australia.

Now, I'm not going the man I am going the ball. Having seen and talked to the cadets I personally believe the Jetstar cadet system is rubbish, and if Jetstar do require and cadet system then it should be modelled off say that of Qantas. Where after gaining you CPL you go off and fly for a regional for two years, then you come back to Qantas and fly as an SO.

Safe flying.


Shnee.

...or is it can't work in NZ because of min requirements and can't work in Aus because not being paid in accordance with Aus IR laws.

Suddenly they are grounded. Bet you that wasn't the plan.

Senator Xenophon you are spoiling the party with all this legal stuff!

Are the illegal overseas FA's next?

I haven't heard anything about this, but if it has happened I would think that it would be because of issues similar to those outlined by 'Mr Hat'. The cadets are all New Zealand employees and are 'based' in New Zealand but have been temporarily based in Australia due to the NZCAA saying 'no' to them flying here until they have 500 hours on line. Rumour I heard was that Jetstar were forging on with the cadet scheme despite misgivings from the NZ CAA as CASA had approved it, Jetstar knew talks were being held between CASA and NZCAA but carried on anyway until told they had to stop, I am guessing they have now been told to stop. :=

I'd say AH & Mr Hat are probably on the money.

I dont think J* Flt OPs would have pulled the cadets off line themselves, some other entity has told them to.

Whether that's QF safety, CASA or QF Legal, is yet to be disclosed.

Like I mentioned in another post M.R stated in the Senate Inquiry his complete faith in the cadet process.

MC

MR is a shiver waiting for a spine waiting to run up.

He will do or say whatever BB tells him too.

I think CASA should be looking at him and deciding if he is indeed a 'fit and proper person' to hold this office.

More to Follow

The Kelpie

anyone confirm? ive heard its not true from a cadet thats on line now

Hold Pool - to someone in the know
 

So I've been in the hold pool since mid 2010. How many of us are there and is it time to move on? Is there a limit to the amount of time we can be in the pool before having to re-interview?

It's offically a problem with the dodgey NZ contract.

The checked to line cadets cannot operate in OZ until they have an OZ contract or are employed on the EBA.

Got this from a mate at JQ who looked up one of the cadets on rockape and saw that he was SOC.......

What the fark are these idiots doing at this sorry excuse for an airline???:mad::mad::mad::mad:

This is such a story for mainstream newspaper!

That is a classic...

Makes the terms of the Senate inquisition even more juicy. Get Brucey and the other wee man in there and answer a few more questions...

I hope Ben sees it!

It will be interesting if JQ try and get them to fly on the EBA because the rate for a Junior FO is a lot less than the rate for a narrow body FO with allowances on the Modern Pilots Award 2010.

The JQ EBA was entered into before the 2010 Award was introduced and I would imagine that the award takes precedence given it reflects the minimum wage and conditions allowed to be paid by employers in Australia.

More to Follow

the Kelpie

ps. I also have it on extremely good authority that Jetstar recruitment and Oxford were told of the dodginess of the NZ Cadet Contract back in November last year by one of the applicants for the cadet programme and chose to ignore it.

A bit of advice offerred to the current cadets: If the company intends you to continue flying for the time being, get employed on the Award and refuse to move off it at the end of your line training....and join the Union NOW!!!!!

Why don't the unions just put out a memo to all members stating that they are not to fly within 100nm of an aeroplane that is crewed by non EBA Pilots doing domestic sectors, or Pilots with less than the prescribed minima in the ops manual.

You can't until you are employed by a company. The Jetstar (and even Qantas guys) aren't officially employed.

Although I do agree the unions (AFAP and AIPA) should do more to grab the entry level guys post CPL before going off to their first job, would stop the non-unionisation of GA companies as well.

I don't understand. Can you explain please?

Broaden the Inquiry
 

Ok this to me looks like a big company blatantly breaking the law. Wilfully pushing ahead with something that is actually illegal and only stopped because there happened to be a Senate Inquiry into the matter. What other gems are awaiting?

Suggest the Senate Inquiry be broadened to other parts of the industry.

I don't know who accountable but there must be some people in government that need a close looking at: FWA, CASA, Albanese.

We've also got people telling fibs in an Inquiry. At the same time there's Jet Connect and not long ago it was price fixing and cartels. Foreign FA's doing domestic sectors on overseas money.

Then QF international guys are rolling up their sleeves for a fight whilst engineers around the group are pushing eachother out of the way to have a go

Is it just me or have the QF shareholders got a legitimate gripe here. (Yeah I'm one of them and not too impressed!)

Here Here Mr hat

We should widen the enquiry or have a new enquiry about off-shoring and how it circumvents the Migration Regulations, the very legislation that is in place to manage Australias growth in a controlled manner.

I feel that the Pandoras box has been opened and AJ and BB are trying to shut the lid, Quickly!!!

More to Follow

the Kelpie

Agree with you Mr Hat.

Adding to your list that a pilot body also unanimously had a no confidence vote of their CEO.

I was also speaking with an QF international baggage handler who said PIA was likely mid year when their EA expires.

Your revelations are mind blowing kelpie.


You have the good authority, the big news, revelations that are going to bring the airline to a holt.
And all you come up with join a Union.
Great work. Your a genius!

No metrosmoker, I actually feel that these guys are victims and they made a mistake getting involved with such a scheme. I am merely offering advice on what they can do next as I fear their world is about to fall apart!!

Metrosmoker, surely having them (and all pilots) join the union is not a bad thing.
If everyone was in it then conditions would have to improve, or at least not go further and further backwards.

If the cadets are kicked out in the street, this is not what I want to hear. After all, they are just like us - just a little more green.

Perhaps the union should pursue a hiring guarantee once they are able to hold an ATPL or meet the minimum hour requirement.

If this is not offered, then a class action should be instigated to recover their training costs (hopefully out of executive renumeration).

GG

Sorry Metrosmoker, you're/your/yaw the genius :D. Apart from bringing the airline to a holt (would that be Harold?), now is exactly the time the cadets need to join a union.

I'm sure with Jetstar's proven track record of looking after their employees best interests they'll be fine ....... but, you know, just in case.

Since there is a consistant standard across the group, these guys & girls would have done the same or similar testing as a Qantas Cadet to get onto the J* course.

They would now all hold a Commercial Licence, Multi Engine Command Instrument Rating & ATPL theory subjects & the A320 endorsement.

These qualifications are the same as those attained from the Qantas Cadet Commercial Program. (except for the jet endorsement)

So, put them in Mainline as Second Officers perhaps the A330 & for screwing them around J* can pay for their A330 endorsement & wages until such time as no pilot surplus exists in mainline.

Or like GG said a class action to recover their costs.

Joyce created the problem, he should fix it or pay them back.

Hey MC I said give them a hand out, not a free ticket to stardom.

They are young and must learn to handle the consequences of their actions. Simply handing them a mainline position would send out the wrong message and would piss off those QF cadets that were, and still are out in the cold.

More to follow

The Kelpie

Mstr Caution,

There is NOT a consistent standard applied across the group for stage 1,2 and 3 recruiting. While QF, JQ and the regionals all sit the same screening, the criteria is "adjusted" to suit each airline.

So, just because a candidate passed the JQ screening does not necessarily mean that he/she would have been deemed acceptable to other "group" airlines. It depends upon the "weighting" of scores.

The only component which is standard across the group is the sim ride. That's assuming JQ haven't "tweaked" it in the last 3 years since I left the group.

Line of the year:


Put them in QF? No, join a union let them fight it. Then off into ga/military like the rest of us. Sorry if thats harsh but its the reality we dealt with.

Im sure they'll get a job in J* eventually - more than likely under EBA conditions.

Then again, the Senate Inquiry might direct them into ga/military as mentioned above. There ARE no short cuts there IS no such thing as a low cost airline. Everything has a cost. You pay to minimise risk.

Is this industry about to get a monumental wake up call? About time.

MSTR CAUTION:

With the very utmost respect, there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO correlation between QF Mainline cadet testing/selection process and JQ's. I know this for CERTAIN.

The testing company is different. The skills testing is different. The interview process is different. The candidates they are after are different. The cadet training program is VERY DIFFERENT.

The testing process is different by a country mile.

You can be the brightest most adapt pilot on this blue planet but if you aren't happy about paying $37K or whatever rip-off price it is now for the rating then you're next to useless.

The Jetstar selection process is yet another disgusting scam. They have a fake HR department just to make it seem legit.