QF DFW in - SFO out
 

Anyone else hearing this rumour??

It seems that QF are going to launch into DFW next year at the expense of SFO.

What a shame that would be. :ugh:

Yes heard it prior to Nancy Bird's issues.

Ground staff in SFO reported very recently that their contract had been renewed for 8 months.

Finishing around the end of this financial year.

Reading between the lines.......

maybe VA could pick up the route from QF? Is there enough traffic on the route for 2 airlines

Yeah, based on the last time QF left SFO then VA could reliably expect to pick it up around 2025. There is a very long queue for the gates/slots.

SFO:Another poor Qantas Decision
 

Ben Sandilands
The last scheduled Qantas flight has left San Francisco for Australia and there is plausible speculation that Jetstar will take over by grabbing another Qantas A332 from its fleet and operating the route via Auckland later this year.
However there is another factor to keep in mind in Virgin Australia and its approval-pending trans Pacific alliance with Delta.
Virgin America is one of the day one users of the new San Francisco T2 (a very smooth reconstruction of what for most of the jet age was its International Terminal) which opened recently. And Delta is also a much bigger user of SFO, meaning that if Virgin Australia or a code shared Delta flight were to operate 777s non-stop from the Bay City to Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane those flights would not just be more attractive by being several hours shorter that an A330 flying via Auckland, but inherently more cost efficient.
Last week at the launch of Virgin Australia, Richard Branson and John Borghetti (principal share holder and CEO respectively) emphasised that the they would offer both Virgin America and Delta domestic connections as alternatives to trans Pacific customers.
SFO’s T2 all-domestic terminal has an airside pedestrian link to T1, the older international and domestic terminal. It is a much more straight forward situation for connecting between domestic and international flights than most users of LAX would experience, especially inbound given the simpler protocols the US uses for international departures.
Which means that San Francisco raises, in a new area, the issue some travellers have with Qantas trying to shunt them onto Jetstar flights.
At the moment Qantas, in another stroke of networking brilliance, argues that those of its customers that want to fly to San Francisco will change planes in LAX. This is every bit as thick headed as their position that travellers to Istanbul or Berlin or Milan will cheerfully fly there via London Heathrow (adding half a day to flight times) and suffer the miseries of one of the worst western airport experiences on the planet because Qantas is tragically clueless as to what people will tolerate in modern times.
The Qantas indifference to San Francisco travellers creates a golden opportunity for Virgin Australia, so the speculation to date is not unreasonable. And of course United, with recently upgraded premium product, has daily non-stop 747s from the Bay City to Australian ports anyhow.
Qantas has left San Francisco in favor of launching less than daily 747-400ER flights to Dallas-Forth Worth, the mega hub of its American Airlines oneworld partner. This is a very long route, and the return flights will reach Sydney via Brisbane because of unfavorable headwinds flying south-west across the Pacific. It would not be surprising if a pattern of unscheduled technical stops north-east bound on the outward journeys to DFW emerges.
While there are some good reasons for Qantas linking DFW and the AA network, it is fair to say the handing over of its SFO travellers to other full service competitors may prove to be another example of deficient management.
This choice, to trade SFO capacity for DFW capacity, was forced on Qantas by its woeful fleet planning decisions, which include no 777s (ever) and no 787s that do anything useful until who-knows-when?

One Comment

1. ggm
   Posted May 9, 2011 at 9:50 am
   About a quarter of my flights are via LAX. SFO was a useful alternate, but to be honest with the change to Q using a smaller inbound arrivals hall, the awfulness of this airport has mostly been mitigated.
   Outbound, its still a mess. A nasty good-bye to America.
   Dropping SFO and Vancouver really reduced brand value for me.

Interesting their decision... but maybe I got the loads on a good few days as the loads are chokkas at present

Yes, just another in the litany of cretinous decisions made by Qantas's very own, "Smartest Guy's In the Room". :ugh:

Further Roo Emasculation
 

I thought testicles could only be removed once

Comments from several 744 drivers suggest that a high number of DFW-BNE sectors wont make the return without a tech stop for fuel.

How will QF manage the situation of drivers going out of hours ?

Boofhead Management
 

I'll bet no one in there thought of that scenario.
Slips in Fiji look likely if winds are too strong

Opstop and refuel into FIJI, takes 45 minutes on the ground. Should be no problem if the pilots extend to 20 hours duty. However, with the current management attitude, I am not sure how many pilots will wish to extend !

it only takes one out of three!!!!!

Virgin/Delta Opportunity ?
 

This could prove to be a very good opportunity for Virgin.
LAX is a bit like LHR....a mess.SFO on the other hand is comparative bliss to transit.
SFO via AKL with Jetstar?Most people would rather pull their own eyelashes out

Why would anyone go SFO via AKL with Jetstar when one can go the same route with Air NZ and be treated like a human being?

I often use SFO as an inbound and outbound gateway to the USA using Air NZ, the much better J Class configuration on the NZ 777 makes the extra small amount of time taken worth it when compared with QF Business Class on the Dugong.

I could be wrong..but by the time you land, taxy in, refuel, taxi out and takeoff, I dont think you could do it in 45 minutes total....and can you PLAN a flight working on the fact that the crew will extend?

A 45 minute "splash and dash" in the middle of the night at NAN is not very difficult with a bit of prior planning. The wind and traffic situation usually allows for a landing on 03 and take off on 21. However you must allow for the loss of ground speed in the descent, arrival and landing. Ditto for the departure and climb - say about 75 minutes to get to the first way point en route assuming the same flight plan track. Done it a few times over the years.

DFW is simply not reliably doable in the US TS season when you're planned to arrive at 1300. It's not easy to carry a tempo for 15 hours. Then there is BNE with a planned arrival of 0500 in the fog season. Who plans this??? With a duty period planned at 17:30, there's not much time to bugger about.

777-200LR would do it non stop, no problems. Why dont they put a 777 on the route?...oh I just remembered......

Well this little Jaba is not doing Brisbane-melbourne-Auckland-SFO on Jetstar, holidays or price or any reason. :eek:

The Borg's B777 is going to win. Anybody want to buy several hundred thousand QF FF Points?

Really?

Just checked JQ website

MELSIN return fare departing MEL 07JUN and returning 21JUN

Jetsaver fare (allows you to check a bag...wow!):
JQ direct MELSIN - $748.19
JQ via DRW - $1025.31

Then I thought I'd check expensive, full service, legacy SQ for the same dates:
Sweet deals fare - $995.16

I was going to check EK and QF, but I kind of didn't think I needed to.

Strong loads via DRW on JQ? Maybe with people flying to DRW.

The plans show that for the aircraft to arrive BNE with 10,000kgs that the zero fule weight will be restricted to 210,000kgs or approx 300 paxs. If extra fuel is required in BNE and a tech stop is planned prior to departure (ie 2 sectors) the crew is limited to 18 hours. As most flights i do across the Pacific drop 2/3000 kgs i think very few will make it direct.

The Best Way to SFO
 

In the late 80s QF serviced SFO thru HNL.The big advantage for pax was clearing customs in HNL.You arrive in SFO ,pick up your luggage and go.
Hawaiian airline offers a daily service to HNL and having travelled with them a couple of times on staff travel I can safely say they are better than Q.Return thru' HNL on the way home and you can kick back on the Noth Shore or Waikiki.
Just for old times sake stay at the Ilikai and watch re runs of the original Hawaii-50 with Jack Lord

What a joke. Qantas really are pushing the friendship with frequent flyers and they think they can keep getting away with it. I feel wrong even thinking about flying V but now I feel its only a matter of time and I'm hearing the same from a lot of Platinums.

Don't give it a second thought.

It's pretty obvious to those of us at the coal face that QF management's agenda is to destroy the airline by design.

A couple of years and their mission will be complete.

All to get around the Qantas sales act I suspect.

I liken the situation whereby a property developer has a "listed" property in their portfolio with severe heritage type restrictions on what can be done with it.

They neglect the property's upkeep and general maintenance to such an extent that it can no longer feasibly be redeveloped short of complete demolition.

This of course being the desired outcome anyway.

Google "demolition by neglect", there's plenty of instances like this.

QF is being "managed" in exactly the same way with the QF sales act equating to a, "heritage listing".

Think about it and tell me I'm wrong.

Someone..........:}


__________


The following link is the second google result for "demolition by neglect" and outlines the scenario perfectly.......

Demolition by Neglect | Connecticut Trust For Historic Preservation

That reminds me of the saying which is something like: don't assume a conspiracy when the same outcome could be acheived through sheer incompetence :ugh:

How long will it take?
 

Forget it guys, we all know that QF is now doomed in it's current form. Management has effectively killed it.

As an example. From MEL, I see one flight to Europe on QF, 3 on SQ, 3 on CX, and the rest, plenty of them. Want to do a study on that? Not to mention dropping SFO! Planning cannot be that inept?

The Europe LHR centric system is recognized as lunacy, but has continued despite customers deserting.

There is only one solution to this, and that is in the hands of the shareholders. A previous board almost got away with blue murder, and this one is hell bent on it's own agenda, without telling the shareholders.

Buy some shares and become active, find out the major shareholders (funds) and lobby them, play management at their game. Elect a board that can rejuvenate the brand.

If you care, then it's your only chance.

Pity, I always felt a tinge of respect when I flew the roo, now I see it through another airlines windows.

How could the board and senior management be so incompetent if not by design ?

I have heard the same phrase mentioned in a previous post thrown around about QF before.

Aviation is a bad business and generally does not get the top talent in the management ranks. It is an industry that you get into because either you have an interest in aviation or you can't get a job anywhere else that pays more. Most of the top talent usually ends up at Merchant Banks/Finance/Stockbroking companies where the margins are fatter and there is less volatility. Some guy with a university medal or a honours degree who is first in the class isn't going to put down a career at QF as his first choice. As a result you don't necessarily get the best people for the job.

And unlike other industry people who are LAME's or Pilots don't really move onto management roles as they actually like being a pilot or lame, so this results in a disconnect between management types and the workers.

This is a very unique problem to aviation as in just about every other industry in the world people will move through the ranks from a technical discipline. In mining the engineers move through and become project managers, in finance the analysts move on into other finance roles. School teachers become principals. Yet in aviation pilots and engineers generally don't move through the ranks into management. I think this why there are so many techinical stuffups by airline management today.

On saying all that I suspect that QF management decisions over the years have been plagued by much self interest (and one could suggest corruption although that could never be proven) which hasn't really helped the cause of the airline. Not buying the 777, Jetstar's company structure, and the botched up privatisation to name a few.

News Ltd started Ansett's demise by taking all the profit's out of the airline. I suspect that QF have done the same thing with Jetstar.

I think the 777 would have equaled network expansion....but I could be wrong. And try booking a J/F seat on EK to FCO..lots of yield there from "VFR"..:cool:

My understanding was that SFO was making money but that a better return was forecast through DFW. A 777 airframe to SFO would have made much more money than the 744- similar passenger numbers for a higher load factor and 30% less fuel. Oh that's right. We don't have a 777. Who's call was that again? :ugh:

bitter - party of one?
 

i think it fair to say, QF is not going to get 777's any time soon - non-issue boys.

as my redneck father says 'coulda shoulda woulda' -

now - DFW. have all ya'll been to DFW or listened to your business passengers? i don't have to go to JFK if I need to go to Manhattan on business (can I get a 'thank you Jesus!) and I don't have to go LAX/IAH if i'm an oil man and and and and....

if it doesn't work, i'll eat crow - have done a lot of that in my day.

The HNL routing was used by Q for YVR-SYD in 1987, its how I emigrated. The cabin staff uniform was a shocker with oversize cuff turnbacks, and it was the days of the powdered-egg brekkie omlette. Joy.

I still remember the smell of frangapani from the herding lounge where we stood for an hour while the aircraft was refuelled.

the LAX-AUK-BNE route was always talked down by my SYD-LAX friends but I personally loved the opportunity to freshen up before arrival. the timings were fine, and I didn't see it as a disadvantage at all.

DFW may suit oilmen. I accept we have many Oil and Mining magnates these days, but in PAX volume terms, I think de-listing YVR and SFO is a mistake, and whatever s/w is modelling this, is broken.

-G

"Mark my words - 78's will equal network expansion"

Tvasis: - 100% correct

- but it won't be for QF!!!!
............ it will be for JQ & the JQ franchises. Evidenced already in Q's latest IASC application that opens the bilateral gate further for JQ Asia.

Also remember that the 78's have been ordered in JQ config only - even those "intended" for Q have full JQ interoperability.

The horizon for the rat is shrinking

AT

and in the meantime:

Quote:

---

AUSTRALIA'S newest international carrier, Strategic Airlines, has won rights to fly to the United States in what amounts to one of the most ambitious plans in its short history

---

Aaaaw C'mon
 

The Qantas board wouldnt fly Jetstar.If Q goes belly up they would use Sing Air or Emirates...First Class !!!

Neither does the CEO.

He was holidaying in Phuket with his "personal assistant" not long after being appointed the position and chose to forgo the convenience of a direct Jetstar service to Sydney.

Much more comfy to backtrack to BKK and pick up a couple of First class seats on the QF2.

Fact.

As do much
 

of the senior guys in J* using the pointy end in the rats planes.:ugh::yuk:

Exactly.... the 78 delays are bad enough but then to give them to J* first is a joke, half the fleet is a joke. Don't get me started on the clapped out jetconnect 734s across the ditch

thats all well and good, but what happens when the desired outcome is achieved, and they get the foreign investment cap lifted to "save the airline" what do the have left? No brand credibility thats for sure... QF is already no longer the carrier of choice for most regular travellers i know. no loyalty from staff, no respectable route structure, nothing but a gutted shell held up by foreign moneys..