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Pac Blue pulls out of NZ Domestic OPS
Pacific Blue is to exit its New Zealand domestic operations as part of a wider review of its network. The airline will also boost trans-Tasman services and generally increase its Australian services to South East Asia and the Pacific Islands. Virgin Blue Group of Airlines chief executive John Borghetti said the ongoing network review was aimed at delivering increased competition and capturing growth opportunities. "As we enter a new era for Virgin Blue it is vital that we have the right aircraft on the right routes if we are to fully exploit our competitive advantages in the context of the Group's three core business: domestic short haul, international medium haul and international long haul. "We are adding capacity to routes with strong revenue potential and accordingly, removing capacity from services which are underperforming," he said. Pacific Blue will cease flying New Zealand domestic routes and redeploy two Boeing 737-800 New Zealand-based aircraft on to trans-Tasman and medium haul international routes. These aircraft have 180 seats. The New Zealand domestic network includes Christchurch, Dunedin, Queenstown and Auckland with 106 flights a week, including twice daily services from Christchurch to Wellington and Christchurch to Auckland. "Guests holding forward bookings on New Zealand domestic routes from 18 October onward will be provided with re-accommodation and refund options,'' Borghetti said. Growing capacity on trans-Tasman routes was a positive step that would see an increase in New Zealand-based staff, he said. Pacific Blue currently employs around 450 New Zealanders at crew bases in Christchurch and Auckland and its head office in Christchurch and the increase in international flying means up to 100 new jobs would be created. Virgin Blue is the 100 per cent owner of Pacific Blue, and in turn is owned by major shareholder of Virgin Group, co-founder CEO Brett Godfrey, Virgin Blue staff and other shareholders. Founder Richard Branson is president of Virgin Blue. Separately, Pacific Blue and national airline Air New Zealand have proposed an alliance on trans- Tasman services. Both airlines operate on the Tasman and have applied to regulators to combine their networks to better compete against Qantas and Jetstar. Key route and frequency changes: * From September 17 Dunedin to Brisbane services will increase from three to four flights a week * From October 31 Christchurch to Melbourne will increase from four flights per week to a daily service. |
Well there it is. No suprise I guess but it looks like the only intl flying done by VB crew from early next year will be PER-HKT. But wait there's some great new opportunities that will excite us all apparently. I'll go and get my vaseline now to be ready.:}:\
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ASX announcement:
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Air New Zealand has just issued a press release saying it will carry "disrupted Pacific Blue passengers". "Pacific Blue contacted us this morning to see if we could carry their disrupted passengers," said Air NZ group general manager for Australasia Bruce Parton. "We have confirmed that we're able to re-accommodate their customers and understand Pacific Blue will soon contact passengers to discuss their options." Passengers will be able to be rebooked onto Air New Zealand services as close to their currently booked departure time as possible. I guess another sign of VB/NZ's ever closer relationship. A domestic codeshare is looking very likely now IMO. |
Virgin Blue's chief executive, John Borghetti, said there was no end in sight to Pacific Blue losing money in New Zealand because three airlines were competing for travellers in a country of just 4 million people. Mr Borghetti declined to reveal the accumulated losses from its New Zealand-based operations but said they had been in the tens of millions of dollars since it began there about three years ago. "The prospects of it turning a profit are not good so there really is no point continuing," he told BusinessDay. |
Make no mistake. This IS the start of VB's own jetstar. PB crew will now fly from NZ bases through to Australia and then operate ALL the flying from Australia to Asia and Pacific Is. Add to that he has said Pacific Blue will expand to a Medium haul airline into further asia ports. Big test for what the VB pilots will do now. Lets just hope they don't get enough crew to do it on those atrocious conditions. But I am probably wishfully thinking on that last point :(
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PB the medium haul international...guess that means they'll be operating any medium size twin aisle jet??
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Sleuth,
You are correct, VB's Jetstar has arrived. And looks like they will do the Domestic wide body too. The car salesman has arrived, did not take long to stamp the QF style of management upon the VB group. I wonder if in two years the Board will try and sell the company to a Private Equity firm for a $100m bonus? United we stand, divided we fall? Go the Sydney AIPA/AFAP/VIPA meeting, its time to band together and be counted! |
Coming home to roost
Seems like the proof is certainly in the pudding in regard to the inept management that DJ has accumulated over the years ! Some have gone yet many remain, but my oh my what a fabulous job they have done.
As for VB becoming another JQ, well if they don't start modelling themselves upon the JQ/Tiger model then the future won't be bright and they will slip further into debt. DJ`s cost base simply cannot compete with the current JQ/Tiger structure.Simple as that.The Rat is losing money hand over the fist, and its latest profit release (for those who have read through the spin and BS) is an absolute disgrace when you look at actual earnings. The industry is bleeding heavily, and only the lean will survive, that is fact not fiction. Sad days indeed. |
This is a copy from the Meeting thread;
Announced today, 12 upcoming VB Commands cancelled due to PB taking over VB flying. Also announced, PB advertising for 737 Capts!! The routes being taken over have nothing to to do flights out of NZ where PB should belong. They are all flights originating in Aus, and DPS is not even on PB's AOC. This is costing Australian jobs, as intake courses have been cancelled as well. |
This may be true, however the salaries and conditions will degrade to a point where the travelling public may want to travel from SYD to MEL for $20, but it wont be me up the front taking them there, I will leave that to the Pilot who wants to work for peanuts and work under conditions akin to a forklift driver (no disrespect to forklift drivers). Truck master, anyone got the number for truck master!
. Obviously Australians are too expensive to employ as VB management have stated: "PB pilots are about 25% less expensive than VB pilots". This was in a recent memo to all Pilots. Gotta love em, bless their little cotton calculators. |
MANAGEMENT HAVE DECLARED WAR!!!!!!! You mean MANAGEMENT HAVE DECLARED GREED ! Besides,those who reside within Ergonomic Central have not earned the right to be called 'Management',more like grubs or parasites...... |
Cactus, I was just editing my post when I realised that I'm so dis-engaged right now I couldn't be bothered even posting. Suffice to say I agree with your post. Competition dictates that we now have to compete to some degree at the basement conditions enjoyed at Jokestar and Tiger. All that remains now is to turn up in Sydney on the 23rd and do something about the future, as opposed to bickering about the past or present.
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Top of drop
Biton,
And in other news, we now have "live OTP" at VB. We can now see a real time indicator of our OTP. You know how airlines love to use OTP as a key competition tool. Guess how many guys give a shi# about OTP right about now After many years of being rogered in this industry I now take pride in doing all I can within my power to contribute toward an executive manager not receiving a bonus. One only has to do some research to discover that denying a request to extend a shift, uplifting incorrectly tagged destination bags (ramps favourite trick, thanks lads), burning a little excess fuel (just enough to so that Ops don't notice yet just enough to bring yourself some secret personal satisfaction), damaging a uniform, a sick day so one can enjoy some surf down at Cooly, telling passengers there is no alcohol left onboard while the carts stay full and the list goes on , can be highly rewarding for ones self esteem, and really its the little things in life that bring us pleasure !! Of course management will tell you that such antics are frowned upon, could hurt the airlines bottom line, even put jobs at risk, but to that I say bulls&#t -it is the pathetic grubs in senior roles who have turned many a good airline into their own personal cash cow then deserted the ship when the airline turns into complete crap and it starts its decent into 'airline recession'. It is very true however that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I suggest to all and sundry that you do your research, examine exactly where and how your superiors top up their non justified executive salary (normally by way of a number of built-in bonus scams) and simply hit them where it hurts - their grubby fat pockets. Revenge can be sweeter than honey and you dont have to break the law ! |
I think a lot of people are jumping the gun...this is just 'phase one' of the restructure people. Give it some time for all the other avenues to be addressed. How long has he been in the job? 2 months?....Commands weren't cancelled, just pushed back. 49 new commands in 6 months after xmas and I'm tipping more aircraft arriving after that. 490,000 extra seats or something over a year. I don't see this is as bad news yet...
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Announced today, 12 upcoming VB Commands cancelled due to PB taking over VB flying. Also announced, PB advertising for 737 Capts!! PB needed two. |
Cactus
I've never seen a more accurate post than your last.:ok: Right on the goddamn money, so to speak.:D:D:D:ok:
Nosey |
Shredder, you don't play chess, do you? What happens here is that the company throws you an empty promise, an arbitrary number if you will, and diverts your attention from the fact that this is all about OFFSHORING AUSTRALIAN JOBS.
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After many years of being rogered in this industry I now take pride in doing all I can within my power to contribute toward an executive manager not receiving a bonus. One only has to do some research to discover that denying a request to extend a shift, uplifting incorrectly tagged destination bags (ramps favourite trick, thanks lads), burning a little excess fuel (just enough to so that Ops don't notice yet just enough to bring yourself some secret personal satisfaction), damaging a uniform, a sick day so one can enjoy some surf down at Cooly, telling passengers there is no alcohol left onboard while the carts stay full and the list goes on, can be highly rewarding for ones self esteem, and really its the little things in life that bring us pleasure !! I'm not disagreeing with the fact that the management culture within the company leaves a lot to be desired, and if circumstances on the day prevent me from achieving OTP, I certainly don't lose any sleep when it's beyond my control anyway - but nor do I go out of my way to run the show off the rails either. Regardless of any animosity towards management, there's still the issue of personal & professional integrity, not to mention consideration for the punters who pay their money to get from "A" to "B" & didn't ask to be caught up in the firing line between us & "them" in the Village. |
Bunglerat,
A moment of sanity. Thankyou:ok: |
Have the VB bean-counters looked at transferring management positions (and perhaps their own) to PB - I believe there are some big $$$ to be saved...:rolleyes:
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Nice try troll, I am not even going to waste any more time typing what you deserve on here :*
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Just to put things in perspective - PB 737 FO's are (at current exchange rates) paid approximately 25% less than a VB Ejet FO...
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Not to mention they fork out AUD$38K for a type rating :ugh:
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Certainly isn't the first domestic airline in NZ to fail and won't be the last. I never flew with them on the domestic run because they didn't fly where I wanted to go (into the regions), and if I did ever fly to Auckland it was always to connect with an international flight - so was booked either with Air NZ or Qantas (back when the red rat actually flew domestic).
But they served their purpose, they made domestic flying in New Zealand a lot more affordable to those in the major centres. But if they wanted to have a real go, maybe a bit of competition into the larger regional routes might have helped. As Invercargill, Tauranga, Nelson, Palmerston North, Hamilton and Rotorua are still gold mines for Air New Zealand.. |
As expected with the withdrawal from the loss making NZ ops, the PB crews/aircraft will be redeployed on the other international routes bali etc. Thats one side, the other side is setting up a base in OZ and/or doing domestic flying under lower conditions. This will and should piss a lot of people off. Note to self: attend meeting on 23rd.
Probably not a good move with an up and coming EBA negotiation and launch of a new brand/strategy. In fact here in lies the opportunity for the VB pilots to drive a very hard bargain indeed. Critical business impressions will be made during this period and disruption/poor OTP is no way to impress/win over the new market. Read : Stranglehold. As for trying to compete with Tiger and JQ forget it. Some of the posters here would have to have their salaries halved just to start with. Mates at JQ have no end of stories of low cost tactics that drive them insane on a daily basis. Have a read of their EBA, its a shocker. There are other gems like not getting paid on time or rosters being late or being called out off reserve for sim after sim after sim and finally making a mistake and being removed from line. The reality in my opinion is that B. Buchanan has only just started with the aggressive tactics. This is the tip of the iceberg. You may think you are hurting VB managers by going late etc but what you are doing is helping the likes of J* (BB/AJ) and Tiger (SQ) get a leg up. If VB were to go under, the new bar for pilots would START at the J* EBA. Not pretty picture. There is a time to play hard and a time to play the best game you can. The first is during EBA negotiations the second is the rest of the time. As for the new boss well his job is to turn as big a profit as he can and that means you being able to comfortably pay your mortgage. At EBA time it'll be your job/turn to increase your profit! |
Mr. Hat
agree 100% well said !! |
Have the VB bean-counters looked at transferring management positions (and perhaps their own) to PB - I believe there are some big $$$ to be saved...:rolleyes: |
Thats one side, the other side is setting up a base in OZ and/or doing domestic flying under lower conditions. This will and should piss a lot of people off. Note to self: attend meeting on 23rd. Most PB crew understand all too well what the situation with VB is and wouldn't touch VB domestic flying with a 100 ft barge pole. If the PB aircraft in NZ weren't redeployed on to other international routes, there would be job losses at PB, which I suppose would be cause for celebration for you lot over in Australia. |
Cypher, mmmmm I agree.
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Doubt any VB pilots want to see their cuzzy bros out of work. The concern Australian pilots have is the use of tricky tactics to bypass agreed EBA conditions ala J*.
Another poster said in another thread - 2 employees doing the identical job getting significantly different renumeration/conditions is the problem. Anyway I'm starting thread drift now. Good luck to you. |
If the PB aircraft in NZ weren't redeployed on to other international routes, there would be job losses at PB
Totaly Incorrect... PB used only two A/C on domestic opps (crap schedual they even admited this) there has been several departures over the last month all Cpts (more to come I expect) this would have easily taken care of the small amount of extra crew. They are up grading F/O's hireing F/O's and DEC's needing up to 30 new crew . This has nothing to do with saving Job's come on guys?! Pac Bro can do the Job for less |
Cypher...
The aircraft that are being removed from the NZ domestic market are being re-deployed on international routes EX AUSTRALIA, not ex NZ. So ALL the international flying which at present is rightfully operated by VB, is being shifted to the lower cost base. End result...on this decision, a VB command upgrade course of 12 has been "deferred", F/O recruitment has been "deferred", and almost simultaneously an EOI released for VB crew to transfer to PB, on PB T & C's. NOT ONE VB pilot wants to see a CURRENT PB pilot out of work, but correct me if im mistaken... aren't PB now actively recruiting, upgrading, and fishing for VB transferees? So rest easy, no PB job is in danger! This decision sets a very dangerous precedent, and IMHO is purely a litmus case for further transfer of business. |
Will make for an interesting EBA negotiation :}. I sense a primed VB pilot group.
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Flamingmoe you are correct. It would also not take much forsight to see that any new mid size 767/787/330/350 will go to PB (V Pacific !) not V Australia if it's used for regional flights.
Also what has ANZ got out of this in the "TRADE" with the Virgin group. |
Nice to see some moderated debate on this thread now rather than the immature, unprofessional behavior and attitude from Cactus. Damaging uniforms, burning fuel - come on if you really don't like the place that much leave. You are an adult and a professional, start acting like one.
I do support the foundation of this cause, PB is hiring for expansion/attrition so it is fair to say that few/no job losses would have occurred. PB shouldn't really be operating these services but JB has made it plainly clear VB are back to domestic, PB are medium haul. Whether we agree with that is cause for debate. Of the PB pilots I know I doubt very much they would fly a domestic sector in AU, you may get your token few who would, but most know this is a line not to be crossed. Are VIPA talking with ALPA? |
I think about 50% of the PB pilots have no union Affiliation (protection?) so I suspect if they were asked to do a Brisbane Darwin to make the whole thing work there would be little choice but to do it or be sent packing.
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PB pilots are not idiots. They would not fly domestic sectors in Australia. Union members or not.
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Dueweno, I really wonder about comments like yours.......................:ugh: What the hell has union membership got to do with doing the right thing? I for one don’t have union membership, for my own reasons......However I can assure you that if asked, and I think I’m in the know here old chap, myself and the very vast majority of PB pilots will NOT be pushed in to crossing a very well defined line, such as you have suggested. Some will yes, thats the case in any outfit. But not many.
My tip is either VA as they have a WB AOC or PB but with contractors doing the dirty work, as has been done in the past. On a separate note what’s going on with RT? he seems to be laying low at the moment. |
The aircraft that are being removed from the NZ domestic market are being re-deployed on international routes EX AUSTRALIA, not ex NZ PB pilots are not idiots. They would not fly domestic sectors in Australia. Union members or not. However it was absolutely fine for VB pilots to come fly for PB, displacing command upgrades at PB when the seconded group came and did their stints in NZ.. taking their commands and doing their NZ domestic flying in NZ... nobody gave a :mad: at VB..... |
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