couldn't agree more buttmonkey1:ok:

Newly appointed JQ LAME A230 2 CAT = $98,889 PA (salary)
Newly appointed QF LAME A330 2 CAT = $83,7140 PA (basic + 32% shift)

It would take that QF LAME 11 years to match the JQ LAME (this time could be reduced by extra licences)

So where is the cost of operation coming from?


(ps this shift penalty rate is based on a 12 hour 24/7 shift and is my approximation,)

Lesson in economics...
 

The Australian today says it all. ALL of the growth is in jq. It's not the wages it's the cost overall. That's driven by the SOM, the cost of turns, the cabin staff, etc. The others just do it to the international standard, why can't cabin staff clean or why do LAMEs need to drive tugs? QF is a great Australian icon but it is now left with none or even declining growth when the others are going gang busters. QF has the oldest fleet and the most expensive maintenance. That's a pretty bad combination. Does qantas really know engineering better than Boeing? Does it give better service than DJ? Why is it so afraid as a group of competition? QF tries to survive by insulating itself from competition. It is so entrenched in it's ways the smart management have given up and created JQ. When QF domestic dies in 5years time, how will the staff feel? Open your eyes to the world! Or die.

Silverado,

I have never worked for QF, however I have a lot of friends who have or do work for them.

To only compare a salary like you have is a little misleading albeit quite interesting to note the differences in salary.

I would imagine that at QF there would be more fringe benefits that ultimately cost the company more per employee. To quickly name a couple would be that a QF employee on a 12 hr 24/7 shift pattern would be entitled to 12 RDO's a year, and approx 6 DIL's a year. The J* employee working a similar shift pattern would have all that tied up into his annual salary and not receive the actual days off.

Also with the QF graded pay scale the number of people at the high end would be fairly signifigant effecting the average payment per annum to the staff towards the higher end as well.

Also things like superannuation schemes, staff travel schemes etc would be a lot more comprehensive at QF than J*, therefore costing the company more.

Please, I dont work for either company so if I have the figures wrong it is my fault as I could not be bothered looking at the awards on the net. The general point should get across though.

GB

Gas Bags,
Just a quick point of order on your last post. At Qantas working an 12hr 24/7 shift, you get either one rdo per month or 6 dilph's, not both.
Crow

a 12hr 4 on 4 off = >38hr week, gives them Z days.

However 12hr 4 on 5 off = 38hr week, which does not receive RDO's just the 6 DILS.

QF = 190 HRS A/L + 6 DIL(@6 X 12 =72) = 262
JQ = 220 HRS A/L
DJ = 240 HRS A/L

Yes it does affect the average pay, but last time the company told us the average, it was very close to that JQ pay. So after about 10 years as a LAME at QF you can now expect to get the average pay.

The higher levels also have caps.

Super is on base pay at QF not salary like JQ. And so is sick and long service leave. (not that JQ has any Long service leave costs, yet!)

Very similar, a few less interline agreements at JQ. And who administers and pays for the Qantas staff travel scheme?

Yes it is a little bit, but it does show that if both business's were to grow, who's average costs would come down as LAME's were employed.

And we haven't even talked about BNE and AVV heavy who only get 7.5% shift penalties. And what are MEL Heavy's shift penalties?

Nero's world of utopia
 

Nero.

"Safety is driven by casa regs. It is just rubbish to suggest that the others are cutting corners! Just look at the fleet age of qf 737s compares to dj tt or jq."

I'm sorry Nero, but thinking like that means you are either, although i loved the first bit!

a) 12

b) Incredibly Naive

c) Guessing

A FACT is the 737 fleet at last check is STILL running 1st and 2nd
in the dispatch reliability department. NG's at about 99.8% Classics
at above 98%. ( Thats DISPATCH, not ONTIME performance, which can be
affected by a lot of operational situations)

Thats right, our Classics the still the second most reliable.

"Safety is driven by casa regs. "....Hmmmm.


'"QF has the oldest fleet and the most expensive Maintenance"

1st point taken care of.

2nd point. You must obviously know our unit cost making bold statements like that.

FACT. We (Tulla H/M) have the lowest unit cost for a qf heavy maint facility in Aus.Here's a clue, think of a number less than $80, and more than $10!;)

Our 737's back when 2 were sent to MHS cost in the region of $200p/h.
Qf got a bit of a shock when jh's bill arrived, did we send anymore there?

on the face of it, singapore for the basic check seem's to be about
$20-30 bucks an hour cheeper, that is until you throw in extra work, and the fact that every one is a month late, how much does it cost to have a 737 on the ground, per day, out of service.?

Its quite frustrating, to say the least, when all these experts post comments regarding 737 heavy maint.
-Our unit cost is excellent
-our turn time's, (remembering that in QF's system of maint, our 737's fly for a longer duration between Heavy Maint check than most other operators, and have some of the highest daily utilisation,) is excellent

Basically, NERO, QF domestic is doing quite nicely thanks. Particularly H/M.
Neither AAE, BBJ's, QF DOM or Jetconnect want their planes done anywhere else.

Please remove the emotion from you're post, and stick to the facts.
That would be like, like ,like really random.! LoL!:ugh:

Thanks perspective, very thoughtful reply. You avoided the questions of the fleet age which drives huge cost and why qf are placing the new narrow body aircraft with jet connect and jq. You also avoided the matter of qf domestic now declining. Qf survives on business volume. But as dj improves frequency and introduces wb what then?

And what has any of this got to do with Qantas engineering Line Maintenance loosing Jetstar's A330's.

Seems all is well with JQ taking over A330 line maintenance until something like this happens........




Shall be interesting to see how JQ maintain their "independance" from big brother given their lack of resources. Or will big brother be forced to come and bail out Bruce B and the rest of the JQ managerial halfwits?


Certainly also keen to hear how many times the JQ media relations spokesperson can mention the words "Qantas Engineering" when talking to the press.:ugh:

I will be nice to see J* cop a media flogging. It might take the pressure of QF engineering for a while.

And you are right in that J* will now only be able to blame JHAS and J* engineering for technical dramas.

If big bro does have to bail them out they need to make sure that they are invoiced for every detail, right down to every last washer and split pin.

Hey ChockChuker, you really can't be serious that the autopilot failing is somehow resulting from the way J* maintains the planes.
Talk about grasping at straws.
Gee did you think that they did some servicing of the autopilot on a turnaround or something?
Really, talk about sensationalism! You should change your name to PaperChucker! Because you knowledge of aviation maintenance is a joke.
Maybe give the media industry a try. If you are not already working for them.
:ok:

Did the qf singapore A330 guys have to come to the rescue? If so i hope plenty of 2350,s raised. will the bill be paid ? waiting with baited breath.

Good grief! Now who's displaying a complete ignorance of aircraft maintenance?



As it turns out, the aircraft in Question is apparently now on its way back to Sydney having left Singapore. What are the odds that JQ went to big brother pleading to bail them out of the pooh?



They (JQ) want to take over maintenance on aircraft that they aren't geared up for to show their 'independance' from Qantas prior to the introduction of the 787. Just they don't want to pay for the people and infrastructure to do it.


Then when something goes wrong they still like to trade off the Qantas Engineering brand. If Qantas are no longer good enough to maintain the JQ A330's then I don't see why JQ shouldn't be able to stand on their own two feet?



Oh, and F.Y.I. there Nuts, I think you'll find I have around 25 years more experience maintaining RPT aircraft than you and your single post on this forum.:ok:

Thats a very long bow that has just been drawn

All this bleating about J* taking over Engineering - what does it take to have you see that J* is taking over Qantas, not just bits and pieces of it here and there. :ugh:

Hey, I'm not the one suggesting that an autopilot internal fault is somehow related to how J* turn around the aircraft. Bloody hell they only took over the turn arounds recently.

FYI, I my post was indeed geared toward provoking a response.
I guess 25 years would make you an expert. If you worked those years at QF, then is that like dog years? 7 x 25 = 175 years.
Did you help the Wright brothers out as well?
:{

The way I read his post, he was suggesting that J* will lean on QF for assistance to rectify the defect..... he was not suggesting that the defect was caused by J*.

I think that was pretty clear.

Well the first QF A330 painted in JQ colours, was scheduled in to Sydney base maintenance today, since JQ engineering took over. Apparently they need some equipment and help using it tonight.

Kind of like Avalon all over again. Help them out today, your job gone tomorow!