A US research group identified the following in a study of outsourcing by US companies.

Not to mention the detrimental effects on morale and engagement in remaining staff who have just seen a whole department sacked. When will it be their turn?

The The, the only flaw in your argument is that poor outcomes occur in the long term, not necessarily in the next reporting period for the purposes of bonus calculations. See the issue?

To put it into perspective, 75% of Jetstar's ports are in Asia.

In Asia, it's main LCC competitors are Air Asia & Tiger Airways.... who's majority of staff are located ... in Asia ...and paid ... in Asian.

It's difficult to fault Jetstar's move.

Paid in Asian ... Interesting

Must be like the Euro

There I go ... being too subtle again.

Paid at Asian rates!

BINGO!, Transmit business,offshore,downsize,capsize?
No wonder the Qantas Sale Act is a dirty word amongst Qantas/Jetstar Management. Is this why Team Bazza so unceremoniously dumped said case? Couldn't risk any impediment to the "business plan", could we!

Mav, what's the name of that truck driving school again?:uhoh:

I met an Australian dentist at DeGrey river a month or so ago, we were both camping. He loves the fact that Aussies go to Bangkok for dental work, because according to him, he gets lots of business rectifying the work down the track.

Interesting that there are many critical posts on this board re QF outsourcing maintenance to Asia, and yet folk are happy to get cheap Asian dental work.

Flying to Bangkok or wherever, of course. :E

You need to be very careful where you go for dental work in Asia. Whilst in Australia you can be assured of a minimum standard, excepting the odd one or two that slip through, same doesn't apply over here. Believe me you don't want a backstreet dentist in Bangkok, forged qualifications, poor infection control and counterfeit materials will make you regret it.

Basically you are looking for an established clinic, with modern facilities, in a good area of town. Dentists with foreign qualifications and a waiting room full of overseas patients, preferably on return visits complete the picture.

This link Bangkok Dental Cost Comparison - Hub of Bangkok Dental Clinic Thailand provides a guide to clinics catering to foreigners.

I had work done and was delighted at the cost being only a third of what it would have been in Australia. Then I found that site and discovered the place I went to was the most expensive one for the procedure I had done and I could have saved considerably more.:hmm: Still having been treated by a specialist with a Masters degree from the University of Queensland using modern equipment probably accounts for the extra.

It pays to do your research preferably talk to someone who has been to the clinic you are interested in. Usually no problem getting appointments so why not arrive a day or two early and check out your short list before committing.

I'm sure you can find examples of people who are in Bangkok to have problems sorted out that were caused by dentists in their home countries.

I'm very happy with the standard of work I've been getting over the last few years. Presently I'm having problems sorted out which were caused by a western dentist who should never have been allowed to hold a drill. My previous dentist in Australia commented on the poor quality of the work he had done. As a result I'm very fussy about who works on my teeth.:}

Didn't someone on this forum say that Jetstar Asia flight crew get an overall better package ex SIN than in Australia?

Anyway I doubt that wages are everything. Singaporeans are paid triple what Malaysians are paid and probably 10 times more what Indonesians are paid. If wages were the be all and end all, every company operating in Singapore would have moved out by now. I mean just across the causeway, (its barely 2km long) the rents are 1/3 that of SIngapore, the labour costs are a third too.....

However, Australia does have the among the highest wages in the world especially for semi to unskilled work (though the average grad salary in SIN after 5 years of work, post tax is probably better than Australia)

I think the SIN cabin crew base operate almost like casual crew. The base pay is S$1000 then they only earn when they fly. If they don't fly they don't earn. And seeing as SQ cabin crew can earn very good money, and they are the benchmark, I don't think Tiger and Jetstar can greatly undercut SQ's cabin crew wages by all that much.

The Lastest,

Jetstar are going to bring in pilots from NZ, SING and Vietnam to work for a new Jetstar Group company within OZ.

All future growth aircraft into OZ will be offered to anyone from these company's as well as existing jetstar eba pilots...but not on the eba

The winner to the race to the bottom is about to be announced.....

OF COURSE.........ITS JETSTAR!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

And all future promotions will be 'MERIT BASED'.
As the JPC has admitted, there is nothing anyone can do about it. The company CAN and WILL do what ever it wants.

"MERIT BASED" very progressive and forward thinking. Who would have thought that one can be promoted or advance because they are good at what they do. What is the world coming to:{

Yes, goodness knows it's such a simple thing to rank the 200+ F/Os eligible for promotion in terms of merit from 1-200. So what's the secret Ndicho Moja? How do airlines do this? After everyone has been an F/O for a couple of years and meets the 'experience' criteria, how do you differentiate 200 people all doing the same the same job when they all meet the objective assessments (CAO limits for license renewals).

So can experienced Airbus drivers. Air China already paying good money to live in your home country, and some others offering attractive commuting packages, which considering things are still recovering is a good sign.
Just wait until things go gangbusters again, we will see who really is smart and who is a smartar5e.

yep, vote with your feet boys and girls. when demand exceeds supply only then things may change

Keg... The third most "junior" FO in Jetsar is a fella i used to work with up here, 3 months ago he was a very experienced A330/340 Captain in EK. I beleive people on his course were flying light twins 3 months ago. In the case of Jetstar it is very easy to sort out numbers 1 to 200. I take your point in the case of long established carriers like Qantas.

Ranking the 200 F/Os
 

In theory good, however, most places won't award 1's or 5's. Simply because, and I quote, "No-one gets a 5, because no-one is perfect". Nobody gets a 1 either, because that would mean exactly what you said. Why are they still here? So, now you have to rank the vast majority, (4's, 3's at least) anyway, as Keg said.

Kiwi Grey. Sshhh the grown ups are talking now.

Any kind of grading except for "competent", "competent with training" and "not competent" is too subjective.

We are all very much aware of the disconnects between various "Checkies".

What one guy sees as a 4, another may see as a 2+ and so on. Not to mention if there is a personality clash between the "checkie" and the candidate. Too much room for the "boys' club" with gradings of 1-5 or A-E IMHO.
The competency based evaluation is by nature of the assessment non-biased. One is either good enough, good enough with training input ie a repeat, or not good enough.

You're all on the wrong track. Promotions will be awarded according to:
1. Who takes the least sick leave
2. Who accepts the most late changes from crewing.
3. Who comes in off leave or days off to work the most.
4. Who files the least number of OSCARs or fatigue or other sfatey reports.
5. Who doesnt bid for leave but accepts company assigned leave.
6. Who accepts leave without pay over the quiet months with no notice
7. You get the idea.

Company IT can easily capture stats and rank 200 F/O's on the above.:yuk::yuk::yuk:

Bombay, thanks for making my point with a very selective example. So let's extrapolate that example a little. How do you rank that former Captain against the F/O who has been in the company for the previous three years, has ticked all the boxes and was previously a turbo prop Captain. What about an ex-military A330 driver? What about an ex EK F/O who has been in J* for a bunch of years? What about the F/O who has never held a command previously but has been in J* for five years and is (subjectively) considered to be an excellent command prospect? If you can rank all those it would be appreciated. :rolleyes:

Waren9

This ones a give away:

1b: Sick leave does not (coincidently) fall on the same date as the DOB registered thru staff travel for other family members.

Keg....Very easy. 1. Ex EK FO (Most FOs in Jetstar probably don't have the minimum requirements to even apply to Emirates). 2. Ex Military A330 (Assuming FO, if not then swap 1. with 2.). 3. Jetstar FO with 5 years experience). 4. Jetstar FO ex Turbo Prop Capt ( light twin). Jetstar is in it's infancy and expanding rapidly and needs the flexibility to pick and choose. 5 years from now when all has settled down and most people joining are more closely matched in age and experience then promotion on "seniority" may be more practicable.

Bombay HF

Doubtful. Most JQ DEFO applicants in the past have come from the regionals. Same for DJ. Since there hasn’t been much recruitment or promotion at either of these airlines since the GFC started, even if someone joined in 2007 with the bare minimum requirements they would probably exceed or be close to exceeding EK’s requirements by now.

Race to the Bottom
 

There is always one......

Jetstar to send 2 A330 to Singapore
Crew from entire J* family given opportunity to fly A330 on attractive terms & conditions :rolleyes:
Crew from entire J* family given opportunity to transfer to Australia and work NOT on J* Aust conditions but J* GROUP conditions:confused:

Great news for those at Jetstar.....
Now you will have:

1. A bypassed Seniority System for any future progression
2. Terms & conditions to fly A330 comparable to any other high flying third world airline in the region.
3. The opportunity to go, fly something cheaper than everyone else, only to come back to Aust and get paid even less than when you left:D
4. Opened the door to J* Asia, NZ, Vietnam pilots to operate in your own backyard cheaper than you so when it comes to EBA time another group can be used as bargaining chips against you.
5. The chance to stagnate in your current role unless you want point 3.
6. Set a new bar for everyone else in Australia that can be again used as bargaining power.
7. Probably fly the 787 or box kite (whichever is cheaper) at a bargain basement price from any destination you like as long as its not Australia.
8. Cadets which will more than likely take any available FO slots as they will still be cheaper than a new "GROUP J*" employee.
9. Zero chance at getting any sort of group cohesion as there will be 800+ pilots all on different contracts trying to stab each other in the back as management offer all manner of deals come J* Aust EBA time.

Comments? Anyone.............:(

I know this will sound callous, but the reality is that with the safety record that has been maintained throughout Australia, we have essentially become a comfortably regulated, risk managed group, that has become so safe people are falling over themselves trying to make money out of that hard earned fact.

I have one term for this entire display of what essentially is poor airmanship, LATENT FAILURE.

Accountants have no place in this industry apart from the accounts department. Please let us know what you think about the numbers, but let a manager of Airline operations make the the decisions on the most sensible and SAFE way forward.

The constant undermining that is taking place will end in a spectacularly public display of denial that would be at home on prime slot of big brother.

I think that although I long for the days of old, that there is a place for that old adage of bringing romance back to air travel. It is not an inherently safe place to be in an aircraft at 41000 feet travelling at mach .85!

Ummm. Didn't somebody mention it is a former management pilot who is setting up this new crewing venture?

Calling all Team Jetstar Pilots
 

magicbox

That sums it up perfectly. Surely all the FOs are watching their career paths come to an abrupt holt.

If any Jetstar pilot isn't in a union yet then join up IMMEDIATELY.

You are going to need it very shortly.

TWU.

Good enough for bus drivers. You don't see bus drivers paying for jobs and getting ****e pay....:ok:

VAN Gough has a good point. If all pilots joined the TWU maybe pilots Australia wide wouldn't be in the mess we're in now and the bigger mess we'll all be in with the constant deterioration of conditions.

AFAP & AIPA are constantly accused of hidden agendas & protecting their self interest. Maybe it's time to try a different tact?

What's left to lose???

Aren't we all perceived as just "bus drivers" anyway....:yuk:
At least real bus drivers stick together.

Normasars

Reference the point about about the Check and Training.
The best way to get a handle on the 'subjective' use of evaluating a persons true rating is to collate the checkies score.
To do this all you have to do is to keep a record of what each checkie is giving. If checkie A,B, and C are giving score X to an individual/s, and checkie D is giving Y, it may be that checkie D has an agenda that is not in keeping with how the company wants it's evaluations done in an 'objective' sense. The problem may be with the checkie not the individual.
I have been told by a long time Qantas C&T that this is what they do.
If one believes the whole C&T training area is 'compromised' maybe it's time to run.

By the same logic it is also time to outsource the entire military and the political function as well.

The Govt of the day can take the kudos when it all goes well and deny culpability when it goes pear-shaped.

No more problems with refugee boats because we will have lost our sovereignty by then.

Seriously, where will this mindless outsourcing stop.

Everytime I get a call from an outsourced call-center, I order the vindaloo...which is where the country is heading I am afraid:ugh:

The anti-offshoring stance worked very well for the QF Engineers.

Why don't you J* guys start ramping-up a publicity campaign along the same lines?