All respect but it seems to work fine for the majority of passengers travelling with wheelchairs that use JQ. Perhaps it needs to be refined but I wouldn't say it is outright WRONG...

Fearney lost ALL creditability when he chose an award ceremony to air his dirty linen over the treatment he received from the deathstar. Regardless of the causes of the complaint, Fearney showed CONTEMPT for the assembled guests at that ceremony...in my opinion a far worse case of humiliation than his antics at the airport.

I choose not to fly deathstar...my own choice! Early in the game deathstar treat ALL their customers like cr:mad: regardless of perceived disabilities...made up my mind then and have no need to change it...However, I am NOT going to stand up at a dining-in night and slag off at a company for alleged poor treatment...a situation totally unrelated to the event....Poor form on Fearney's part:hmm:

Absolutely spot on. He riduculed himself and embarrassed other people who have disabilities that go about their day as those without a disability. He's a spoilt little brat.

Boomerang_Butt

We’re not saying they weren’t following policy. We’re saying their policy was wrong.
And all those airlines that I mentioned also allow disabled pax to transfer at check in if they so wish. Jetstar and Tiger don’t give disabled pax any choice. So much for their advertising slogan “CHOICES”.
I’m sorry but it would have fallen on deaf ears. To get any large company to change a policy is like extracting teeth. Been there done that.
Because it wasn’t a self propelled wheelchair. It required someone to push it and if you have spent any time around paraplegics you would understand how some absolutely loath being pushed anywhere. A sense of loosing their independence and being a burden on society is what usually triggers this loathing.
If Ryanair and Southwest Airline, two LCC’s that Jetstar have modelled themselves on can offer this choice then so can Jetstar.
Most pax using wheelchairs aren't paraplegics. They're elderly pax with mobility issues who would prefer someone pushing them anyway.
It's outright wrong when it doesn't consider the special needs of parapligic pax.

Mr. Hat & OZBUSDRIVER

That is your opinion. I just don’t agree with you.

Thats okay 404, I'm sure there are a million other things we would agree on. The good thing is for the sake of robust adult debate that neither of us feel inclined to start calling names or comparing aircraft sizes!

404, I do understand that some wheelchair users do not like being 'pushed everywhere'- however as I said sometimes we can't always have things the way we want and I'm sure there are plenty of people with other health issues who do not like other policies on air travel- for example, the requirements for oxygen on board, crew being unable to accept medication for storage, and so on.

Jetstar are not the only airline and while I sympathise with the difficulties of travel it's not always possible to please everyone and the man in discussion had the choice to use a carrier who would allow him to use his chair to the gate. My issue is not with the needs of this man it's with his attack on a company that on the day did the best they knew how. They had a policy in place and it can't please everyone. Most people who travel with them are happy with it. They tried to offer him alternatives which he didn't want, what else can they do, refuse to let him travel? That would have made an ever bigger issue than the one we have here! Jetstar have agreed to review the policy, however where will it end?

Mr Fearnley wanted to travel by air, there are certain things that happen in airports and for the convenience of travelling by air most people with disabilities are wiilling to make concessions to their 'independence' by relying on others. I applaud his desire to be independant and not a burden on anyone but the reality is it's just not possible to be completely self-reliant (whether you are able-bodied or rely on a wheelchair) it's human nature, the degree of assistance we need is different but we all need help in one way or another. I just disagree with his way of going about things, that's my opinion which obviously differs from yours and let's leave it at that.

Now let's see, this guy crawled the Kokoda Track then complained that he had to crawl to the aircraft, rather than be pushed in a wheelchair that was not his own? Let him crawl I say!:rolleyes:

The crew would have been well within their rights to leave a 'disruptive' passenger behind! Disabled, or not!;)

Next he'll be wanting the exit row seat!:eek:

Boomerang_Butt

As I’ve said his issue wasn’t with the staff. He knew their arms were tied. It was with the company and a pointless policy. Can you tell me why the policy is there in the first place? If as I suspect it is commercial, it speak volumes of the calibre of JQ management or should I say lack of. This is a morality issue and it is plainly wrong that JQ require paraplegic pax to change wheelchairs ie their legs if you like before it is absolutely necessary for safety reasons.

Howard Hughes
Do you actually realise how that comment makes you sound? I don’t like using the word but Bigoted isn’t too strong I’m afraid.

404 - YOU seem to be the only one with a problem with this policy. The policy if fine and well documented, and is NOT a problem for the hundreds of TRULY disabled passengers you have no problems complying with it day in and day out.

Fearnley is pretty mobile on his own, and this is nothing more than a stunt for which he deserves condemnation for.

Your constant support for this moron, and bashing of Jetstar is getting very tiring.

"Truly disabled ?" !!!!!!!!

The bloke has no legs FFS.

Unbelievable, except that I'm reading it.:ugh:

There is clearly no point in trying to reason with this calibre of individual.

FWIW 404 Titan is not the only one arguing in support of this fellow and against this bloody minded Jetstar policy.

Most people in a wheelchair couldn't crawl out of bed. This guy "crawled" the whole Kakoda trail, and merrily across the tarmac without blinking an eye!.

I rest my case.

404 Titan

I can understand how this probably did upset him to lose the bit of independence that he has in his wheelchair (He is obviously more independent than some able bodied people without it). But what I think most people are getting at is the scene he has made! For instance, how the hell does he compare it to you or me having our legs tied together, our pants pulled down and being carried through the terminal??? :confused:

My point was, OK fair enough maybe Jetstars policy isnt politically correct enough for some people with low tolerance levels (extreme in this case), maybe other Airlines have different policies (not really the point though, it is J* policy, even if bad policy for some reason or other).
But again, Right or Wrong on either parties case, his reaction and aftermath was not fair on staff only doing their jobs!

Another thing I dont know and am interested to know, did he not have family traveling with him or not? Why the scene if he had loved ones to help him through his very short deprivation of self propelled transport?

Im sure we can all agree to disagree on this but as much good as the guy has done in life with his situation, my opinion is he has shown what a poor personality he really has!

Yes I do suspect the reason is commercial Titan, I've already said I believe it is due to staffing levels and tight turnaround times. JQ do not pretend to be anything other than a LCC and to expect them to provide the same level of service as a full-service carrier (even if Virgin et al offer a 'gate check' for chairs) is beside the point... it's not what they choose to do and they documented it accordingly.

As far as I'm aware there's no legislation to say what level of support is meant to be there, aside from that it should. Jetstar choose to provide less support than say Cathay or Qantas (examples you cited earlier) Until there's a law that says pax must be allowed to transfer at the gate then certain airlines are going to err on the side of less manpower/time cost... Again I'm not saying it's 'morally' right but that's how it is.

QF have a well-known policy for supporting wheelchair pax, right down to the pamphlets they hand out at check-in asking questions such as 'How do you transfer' and 'When do you want to change chairs' or similar. Doesn't mean other airlines have to offer it, QF are just choosing to be more advanced in their approach.

I think the sad thing about this case is no-one's gonna remember him doing Kokoda in 10 years, he'll be remembered as the guy who 'threw a tantrum' (to quote commenters online) and his other achievements will be overshadowed by this. By all means he should try to change policy where it is lacking, but I have a feeling he's also aliented a lot of the disabled community by acting the way he has, who would otherwise have been behind his quest for reforms.

404 Titan

You are actually acting like a bigger fool than the clown in question. Get of the JQ bashing bandwagon. What did JQ knock you back or are you just a fence sitter having your little say. You are making all of us down under look like d@#%heads to the rest of the aviation community over this ridiculous issue when it is obvious JQ did the best they could in this particular situation.
This is JQ policy. Get over it. It's their train set. If you don't like then f#@$ off. There are plenty of good people at JQ who work under trying conditions who then have to listen or read this crap.

Another reject:D

Boomerang_Butt

So now that you have conceded that it is most likely for commercial reasons Jetstar requires disabled pax to surrender their wheelchairs at check-in, are you telling me it is morally right to profit off the backs of the disabled because this is exactly what they are doing. Why should there be a new law dictating what is essentially a morality issue. We should all know what is right or wrong. Do you honestly need the government to hold your hand for everything? Ryanair and Southwest, two of the most profitable LCC’s in the world have chosen that it isn’t acceptable but they manage to turn their aircraft around in just as short a time as Jetstar with the same staffing constraints. Maybe Jetstar needs to look at its boarding and ramp handling procedures if it is so frigging hard to put a wheelchair in the bulk cargo compartment at the last minute.

You may think his outburst will be all the public will remember in ten years time but the reality is that the public have short memories for everything.

I accept some may have an issue with Mr Fearnley’s method of delivery but I am god smacked that we are actually here debating the merits or otherwise of Jetstar’s policy.

p.j.m

As for you “p.j.m”, if you are actually in a customer orientated position, you are in the wrong line of work my friend. Your attitude is giving your airline a very bad name.

captaintunedog777
You’re kidding aren’t you? Why would I want to work for Jetstar? Never applied and never will. Actually that’s not entirely true. I applied to Impulse back in the mid 90’s and actually got the job and I knocked them back, twice.
For the record I couldn’t give a rats ar*e which airlines policy it was including my own airline, I would be just as vocal.
Sure it may be their train set. It doesn’t make it right though. If people didn’t object to things like this from time to time which is their right under our constitution, change would never happen.
I never said there weren’t. I actually feel sorry for the staff particularly the ones that had to deal with Mr Fearnley on the day. It’s not their fault that Jetstar has such a stupid policy.
I’ll just put that down to you debating the man and not the topic.

Strangely enough, I would tend to blame JQ for the JQ policy and the JQ imposed trying conditions JQ staff have to work under...rather than blame the JQ clients/customers who pay JQ money in good faith for a supposed service?

No wonder the opposition run circles around JQ... :(

404 Titan

The opening line needs to be read in it's entirety!

What I am eluding to is that this gentleman is simply grandstanding! He is able to crawl the Kokoda Trail, yet because of pride he won't be pushed in a wheelchair, so elects to crawl, so let him. He then tries to make out that he is being victimised by the airline. He is not being victimised, nor was he singled out, this is a blanket policy which applies to all wheelchair bound patrons.

Howard Hughes

Look we’ll just go around in circles if we debate the merits of his delivery method. But if you are actually debating the merits of the policy I find it hard to fathom anyone who could actually think it is right. It’s there purely for commercial reasons not safety and therefore by default they (Jetstar and Tiger) are both profiteering of the backs of disabled pax. This is morally wrong.

JetStar does not want unaccompanied childern, cripples, spastics, blind, deaf and dumb, aged or otherwise infirm passengers. Such passengers are encouraged to either fly with JetStar's competitors or stay at home and don't travel at all.

For the avoidance of doubt, please see JetStar's Policy on "Independent traveller requirement - Children" and "Limited special assistance" shown at the following link:

At the airport - Travel information - Jetstar Airways

For passengers who are protected from discrimination by Australian Law, JetStar will begrudgingly undertake "Limited Special Assistance".

The law does not require JetStar to provide this service in a respectful and friendly way...especially if you check-in after 29 minutes before the flight due to lengthy queues even if caused by inadequate numbers of JetStar check-in staff...

404

Does Jetstar charge disabled pax more than an able bodied pax to provide the level of service required by the disabled. I suspect not.

It must cost Jetstar more to carry a disabled pax then an able bodied one and provide the level of service that they do. I accept that this level of service does not meet with your approval, however they do provide a service to their disabled pax that they do not need to provide an able bodied pax.

So how then can you contend that jetstar are "profiteering of the backs of disabled pax". That is really just an emotional statement without foundation.

After my previous post you said that my comment:-

"To say that this was taking away his independence is probably true to a limited point, however there are some limitations that have to be accepted when one becomes disabled for any reason."

To say that this was taking away his independence is probably true to a limited point, however there are some limitations that have to be accepted when one becomes disabled for any reason.
was:-

"one of the dumbest thinks I have ever heard anyone say and speaks volumes to your incredible lack of compassion."

For me to make this statement says nothing about my compassion or lack of it. It is a statement of fact.

The cold hard fact is that there are some things that disabled people can not do. In our industry a couple of them would be:-

Occupy an exit row seat
Be employed as a pilot on an airline jet.

On the day in question another was that Mr Fearnly would be required to check his wheelchair at check in.

His subsequent behaviour did him and his cause absolutely no credit.

I made no comment on Jetstar's policy. This is because I am of two minds.

Jetstar could improve their policy.

However, Jetstar have set out a business model for their version of a LCC. The services that they provide are based on their model. Comparisons with other LCC's are not valid as their business model will vary from Jetstar's. The services and T&C's that they provide for the fare they charge are set out in their web site and are available from other sources.

Nevertheless, Mr Fearnly chose to fly Jetstar and thus accepted their terms and conditions.

By all means attempt to force Jetstar to change those terms and conditions if you wish. But do so in an appropriate way.

As I said, I do not like some of Jetstar's t&c's so I choose not to fly with them.

pcx
You don’t need to charge someone to take commercial advantage of them. The mere fact they require short turn around times but aren’t prepared to have the necessary staff to deal with stowing a disabled pax’s wheelchair at the gate saves them money over their LCC competitor that is prepared to provide it. That is what I mean by "profiteering of the backs of disabled pax". It saves them money and contributes to their bottom line.
They may not need to provide it legally but on a commercial basis they would be idiots if they didn’t provide anything.
That goes without saying but it isn’t our job to make it anymore difficult with stupid rules. As a society we should be doing all we can to make daily life as accessible and straight forward as possible for these people.
Maybe to the people that were there, but the general public I doubt it. All the general public saw were the media reports which didn’t do Jetstar any favours as evident by the fact they were forced into damage control with a swift and very public apology.
I think the point I am trying to make is that their business model on this particular issue is flawed and should be changed.
What may be inappropriate for some may be appropriate for others. Somehow I doubt that the general public see it your way. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

404 - much like your assumptions about what I do and who I work for, you seem to not have a clue.

fyi - it is usually me "keepng them honest" and bagging JS about their flight delays and general lack of service and stupid and totally misleading TV ads. but in this instance I'm in agreement with JS, their policies and their staff. Meanwhile Fearnley has proven he's a fool and you seem to be trying to topple him from the title,

p.j.m

That’s funny I can’t see one post you have made here bagging JQ. I can see five posts though about QF. Mind you, you probably post under multiple aliases each with multiply personalities. :hmm::rolleyes:

I couldn’t give a rats what people think of me. When I have a strongly held opinion on something I will defend it. All you can do is bag me or Mr Fearnly. I haven’t seen anyone yet give me a credible reason why they think this policy is OK except the “It’s their train set” or “It’s their business model” BS. You give me a good reason and I may respect your opinion.

He or the person booking the flight on his behalf ticked the little box that says 'I agree with the above Terms and Conditions'. If he or his rep couldn't be bothered to read the full terms and conditions, I don't see how that is an Airlines fault. If you don't like ther T + C's, GO ELSEWHERE!!!!!!!

Furthermore, it's a low cost carrier FFS!!! You get what you pay for.

What he did in PNG was admirable. What he did during the award ceremony was ridiculous.

j3

Does this person have a book launch or TV special in the wings? I know I am cynical but if he was a rock star it would be a cancer scare before a launch for publicity.

I’m really getting board with the people that insist on criticising the man rather than debating the merits of Jetstar’s and Tigers policy. That’s the issue here.

Well 404, I'm getting bored of the notion that the majority should change for a minority. You talk about short turn arounds and how this doesn't allow wheelchair passengers enough time to transfer at the gate. Why should Jetstar have to make their turnarounds longer and as a result increase their airfares for a minority? Why? Why should I be forced to pay more for someone else's convenience?? They are not being treated as sub-human, or demeaned in any way, just transferring to another form of transport so the airline can keep costs down and pass on a cheaper fare. If its not to your liking, fly another airline. I don't understand the continual argument and discussion.

I understand you are passionate about the subject, but do you think your feelings may be clouding your judgement slightly?

j3

Lads its been done to death.:ugh:

It not about you.
 

Quote:

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Why should Jetstar have to make their turnarounds longer and as a result increase their airfares for a minority? Why? Why should I be forced to pay more for someone else's convenience??

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It’s a crook policy and for the small number of times where a wheelchair passenger chooses to stay in their own chair to the gate it’s not going to make a scrap of difference to the fare that Jetstar passengers pay. There is no reason why the transfer to an aisle chair at the gate rather than at check in should make any difference to the time taken to board an aircraft if handled correctly. A wheelchair passenger boarding is always going to slow things down a little bit but that is just something that has to be accepted in a civilized society. Hey, old people and people with small kids slow down boarding. Do you think we shouldn't make allowances for them as well?
It’s easy to say;

Quote:

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They are not being treated as sub-human, or demeaned in any way

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when YOU CAN WALK. Obviously Mr. Fearnley did find it demeaning. As non-paraplegics I think very few people can appreciate it from a paraplegics’ perspective and ultimately it's not whether YOU find it demeaning that matters. I reckon if you asked most paraplegics what they thought of Jetstars policy they would agree with Mr. Fearnley. You might not like how he went about drawing attention to this but that doesn’t make the policy any more correct. Likewise saying he didn’t have to travel with Jetstar also doesn’t make the policy right either. I think many are allowing their dislike of how Kurt handled the situation to cloud their assesment of the policy. You can think he's a goose and still not agree with the policy you know.

I’m no bleeding heart but I’ve found the shallowly hiden lack of humanity or empathy for people with a disability on this post astounding. As an example from p.j.m.;

Quote:

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.....people automatically jump to defend him just because he's a cripple.

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Fair dinkum what cave did you crawl out of? I reckon if you called Kurt a cripple to his face you'd be the one sitting on your arse.
If you look at any of my previous posts you can see I’m not one of those who just bags Jetstar for the sake of it. For any airline I think this was poor form.

j3pipercub
Who said that they need to? You and I don’t need to do a thing. Jetstar and Tiger though need to change their policy.
Where have I said Jetstar or Tiger for that matter need to increase their turn around times? I haven’t. I have said that they need to provide the necessary resources at the gate to be able to transfer a disabled pax to an aisle wheelchair if the pax should decide to do it there instead of at check in.
Pretty selfish statement to make when we are talking about a group of people who weren’t given a choice to be in a wheelchair in the first place. Chances are though it wouldn’t cost you a cent as the number of times this would be required and catered for is very small compared to the whole operation.

404 Titan

Is it just me or are you getting fixated on Tiger and Jetstar official policy? Most people would agree with you that it should be changed to allow more convenience for the disabled. But it doesnt change the fact that he acted like an absolute :mad: and made a fool of himself for what would appear to be his own agenda!!!
Im sure he is not the first to be upset, nor the last, but you dont see every person in a wheelchair throwing a tantrum like a 2 year old and go scampering off through the airport as if to prove something do you??? :ugh: