Tiger and J*
 

Heard on the grape vine that Jet* are going to cripple Tiger by poaching it's pilot's and thereby limit tiger's expansion. Can anyone confirm?

the pilots may as well follow the passengers from Tiger ...............

you can only poach if they want to leave,what happens if they dont want to leave

And let me guess next, Tiger will then have to poach from REX and then we will all be f@cked.

Tiger to AVV was reported in yesterdays Herald Sun

Correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect the Tiger guys might be about to negotiate an EBA.

I thought Air China were recruiting pilots from Jet*.

I had heard that Tiger were about to interview a whole bunch of jq guys...

It seems that confusion reins... everyone will poach everyone else's pilots and the status quo will remain.

One Dot, basically these days people move jobs like they change underwear. Conditions are gone and loyalty has followed.

Some Jetstar fo's might take a quick upgrade at Tiger and then go to Air China!

Sounds like a great plan except the Jetstar pilots keep failing the Air China interview sim. Something about those crosswind landings apparantly....

Out of interest whats so good about Air China anyway? What is the package?

re the DRW guy's. heard that it was all about point a loaded gun at jq management and once desired effect occured, they pulled out of the tiger process

Possibly this time it's all about pointing a loaded gun at Tiger management and once desired effect occurs, they will pull out of the Jetstar process.:E

I think it has already been tried, soon after Tiger started key personnel recieved attractive offers to jump ship.

Of course pilots moving from either company would lose their place on the seniority list and have to start at the bottom again which would be a strong incentive to stay. All the benefits and security built up by loyal service over the years would be gone. Oh, hang on that doesn't apply anymore does it.:E

Note that in Singapore both Tiger and Jetstar have a clause in the employment contract prohibiting a pilot from working for another airline in Singapore within six months of leaving. One answer to poaching but not entirely sure how it would go down in Australia.;)

Mr Hat, in answer to 'what's so good about Air China'- the short answer is that they treat their pilots with respect. Something the older Australian pilots will remember & the younger ones have yet to experience (and are unlikely to in the current environment), Cheers.

Jetstar poaching Tiger pilots...?
 

Seems that the monkeys just can't get enough peanuts....:ouch:

i heard tiger were going to poach qantas pilots :}

The way you blokes go on about the management of the carriers involved, I would have thought you didn't believe they could poach an egg, let alone a pilot. :ok:

Can someone please explain?

If I work for J*, is somebodey from tiger going to write/phone/email me and offer me a job?
And visa versa if I work for tiger?

The point is, personally, if I worked for either one and was not happy or thought the grass was greener, then I would initiate the move across, ie
I don't think I would be poached like an A league Baseball player.

How does one poach a pilot? Ans 6 hours on the ground at good ole Yagga Yagga or Balgo or perhaps well 33 on the canning stock route.:ouch:

Karunch, perhaps they had better send LKH over to China to see how it is done ;)

So, what is the pay [and other conditions] difference??:confused:

and being subtle as always:

why are you MORONS using the word "poached"??

In both pornstar and pussy you, individually, one way or another, have PAID FOR THAT ENDORSEMENT - you OWN that endorsement because you PAID for that endorsement.

If another business wishes to offer you more to use YOUR endorsement that YOU paid for then...up to you.

"Market forces" saw the LCC carriers emerge, "market forces" also says if I pay for my endorsement I can go where I like, when I like etc.

Not as I would prefer but times change - however if anyone is stupid enough to say the LCC model encourages 'loyalty' I'll be more than happy to p*ss myself laughing!

Cheers all.

The true problem galdian is the seniority concept.

This should have been abolished as soon as pilots started paying for endorsements. To be truely free agents and not slaves to company XYZ we need to move as any other modern executive - into a position relative to our experience not DOJ. The old fashion concept has served us well while employee loyalty was the rule but now has become an anchor around our professional necks which only favours a very few senior pilots and mostly the employers.

At some stage in the future we will see a court challenge on this most descrimatory practice but it will be a protracted case as it so heavily favours employers which enjoy a slave like control of their pilot body.

Consider a world, with all it's pro & cons, with no seniority:}:}:}:}

Toothless Tiger
 

It is JQ attempting to poach from Tiger, not the reverse. JQ pay rates for Drivers are huge compared to Tigers 'bowl of rice' salary.

"huge" verses "ricebowl":rolleyes:

Anybody prepared to name approx numbers?

like : Capt about $180k, F/O $100k etc??????????:confused:

well it seems to be working, as certain companies allegedly have 'agreements" with other companies to not "poach our pilots please". PERHAPS, the Singapore way of doing things has encroached on Australia already?

BS ! @ 75 hrs a month, there is little difference.

Air China is around 14KAUD/month after tax , all you need is 500hrs command A330 and to pass the interview, medical and Chinese ATPL ( to the best of my knowledge they are not taking A320 drivers unless previous widebody experience )

Poaching implies contacting the pilots and offering them jobs directly, which might be seen as a bit underhand.

Now on the other hand if an advert were to be placed in Fridays Australian offering attractive terms and conditions to pilots with specific qualifications which just happened to match those of the pilots you wanted to lure away that is obviously a different matter.;)

Hey Longdongpooy

According to my sources. Most 320 drivers are on at least 190 upto 220 per year and 330 drivers on 220 and as high as 260 ish. Peanuts aint it. Yeah right. And that does not include Super and limited overnights. Your 14 clear a month with Air Chong is surpassed by most 330 captains.

captaintunedog777: I find it very hard to believe JQ330 drivers are pulling in 260K. Why not just let the QF 330 crews fly them?

I'd be happy to be corrected, good on em' if it's true!

Hey Dog,

That must be why their 330 Captains are applying to Air China, ignorance is bliss!

Prior to unleashing from the hip, ask the 330 guys that have applied to CA why they are interested.
:ugh:

JQI had Emirates guys return back to the desert and even one go to V Australia? Both glowing about the company...not!

The Air China contract may not be as good as it appears, particularly with an Australian base and therefore Aussie taxes. Quick search on the Far East forum needed.

Korean Air may be worth looking at, but once again do some carefull research first.

If anyone finds any decent jobs going please let the rest of us know.

captaintunedog777: your sources are waaaaaaaaaay off

25.1 Base Salary
25.1.1 Pilots covered by this Agreement will be paid the base salary contained in
the table below per annum, from the date of employment, or after
achieving Checked to the Line status following conversion, re-conversion or
upgrade training. Base Salary rate changes will apply from the dates below
and be paid in the first full pay period on or after the dates shown.
WIDE BODY CAPTAIN FO Lvl 1 FO Lvl 2 FO Lvl 3 JUNIOR FO
1 Jan 2008 $165,523 $91,038 $99,314 $107,589 $59,588
1 Jan 2009 $170,489 $93,769 $102,293 $110,817 $61,376
1 Jan 2010 $175,603 $96,582 $105,362 $114,141 $63,217
1 Jan 2011 $180,871 $99,480 $108,523 $117,565 $65,113
1 Jan 2012 $186,298 $102,464 $111,779 $121,092 $67,067
NARROW BODY CAPTAIN FO Lvl 1 FO Lvl 2 FO Lvl 3 JUNIOR FO
1 Jan 2008 $145,195 $79,857 $87,117 $94,377 $52,271
1 Jan 2009 $149,551 $82,253 $89,731 $97,208 $53,839
1 Jan 2010 $154,037 $84,720 $92,422 $100,125 $55,454
1 Jan 2011 $158,659 $87,262 $95,195 $103,128 $57,118
1 Jan 2012 $163,418 $89,880 $98,051 $106,222 $58,831
Note: First Officer rates are calculated as follows:
Level 1 FO 55% of applicable Captain’s rate (for initial 12 months)
Level 2 FO 60% of applicable Captain’s rate
(after initial 12 months up
to and including 5th year)
Level 3 FO 65% of applicable Captain’s rate (after 5th year)

25.5.1 In addition to the annual salary rate, Jetstar will pay pilots an Extra Flying
Allowance for each averaged calendar month Roster Period where the
pilot’s total credit hours exceed 75 hours in that roster period.
The Extra Flying Allowance will be paid for each credit hour in excess of
75 hours in that roster period, at the rate calculated as follows:
Annual salary/787.0.

Superannuation 9%

Pay for your own conversion - priceless

Employment contracts
 

My understanding as an employer here in Oz, that you can put a clause into a contract prohibiting employment within a geographical area after leaving that contract.

Interesting the HR people say that it is actually quite a grey area, it would need to go to court etc, the employee could then say well I have a mortgage, family to feed, so the employee would win...

I know its quite different in Singapore...work over there 6 times a year.

JERR

Mudskipper, you are absolutly correct. The 'seniority' concept have been the most significant factor in keeping out T&Cs down during a period where market forces should have seen our renumeration blossom.

Seniority is outdated and should be abandoned ASAP, if our conditions are to improve.

I can't wait to hear the responses from the Flat Earth Society...:bored:

SQ may buy into Qantas , Tiger becomes Jetstar or vice versa and no poaching needed. :bored:

Junior FO?

If you flew 1000hrs per year, added holidays on top, got the performance bonus and the retention bonus and worked quite a few days off (generous day off payments), then you might get up to the figures quoted by tunedog, and a very few probably have.

The cost is you would be knackered and probably have no life!

No you wouldn't. He quite clearly said:

So he reckons 320 drivers are at least 190, where they are in fact on 149,551 +6% retention bonus, which works out close to $158/$159k.

If you wanted to compare apples and apples, then talk about a QF driver on 1000 hours pa and then compare to the LCC rats.

Tunedog also said which is also not true.

But don't let a few facts get in your way. Sheesh, 5 mins with google...

As I said, if you worked your butt off including quite a few days off, then you could earn up to that amount.

As I said, there are probably a very few who have, but it is certainly not the norm, far from it.

I am not into a pi$$ing contest with what they earn at QF, I am simply stating that it is possible to earn that figure in J* and I am certainly not defending the pay rates.

As I said, to earn that figure is putting everything else second.