You certainly have a charming way with words - just like our Dear Leader K. Rudd - crass and oafish. I suggest the problem - and it seems this is not an isolated case- is lack of proper training of new pilots during the induction phase of recruitment and ditto during the line training. Often it is a typical case of "she'll be oright, Mate" and learning (?) on the job. The learning part needs a bit more polish..

Anything bigger than a 717 you don't even know if there is a tug, let a lone a driver.

halas

When I was a youngster (baby boomer - just) Aussies were known for giving a fair go. Now it seems to me, sadly, that we're known for hanging sh!t where ever we can


Quite correct there CC.

I think it's something along the Gen Y "all about me" attitude WRT hanging it on anyone and everything at any opportunity.

So why wouldn't you confirm with the bloke on the headset if he and the tug are ready for push before you put your foot in it and ask for push with ground and then find out you don't have a tug? It's what I do.

I haven't had issues with Tiger at Sydney yet, but I have observed them request a pushback at Perth with a cargo door open and request taxi at Hobart with an engineer/dispatcher still attached. The Hobart occasion blocked us in while we were ready to taxi, while we were lucky to be blocked in Perth, where we took off while that aircraft was still on the bay.

I haven't seen this from QF/DJ/JQ and I hope Tiger pilots (some of whom I count as friends) don't do it to be smart, it's simply poor airmanship.

I've seen Jetstar call for taxi in Singapore while the Ginger beer was still on headset!! And then then they took off in the mother of all Ts effecting the departure Runway ( 02C )

However we here at CX can't talk, we've had aircraft start to taxi without clearing the Engineer too.

I see.

there is a difference between wilful poor form requesting a push/taxi when you're not ready to beat someone else to the punch and an error (potentially dangerous) like taxiing away before it's safe to do so.

I would suggest that if pilots are deliberately getting out of sequence by requesting a taxi before the engineer disconnects it could lead to a occurrence where they actually taxi with someone attached, a dangerous mistake that VB made once in its infancy to much cries of "pay peanuts/get monkeys" etc. No harm done but it was an inadvertent procedural error

I agree.

The JQ guys in Sing did it knowingly, wont be long before they run over the poor ginger beer.

The CX guys did it by mistake and CX have changed the after start check list and hammered the SOP's again to stop this happening again.

It used to be SOP on the 737 to call for taxi clearance before the engineer hand signal had been received. Leave that open as an option for what is occurring at J* Asia.

I don't agree with it if it is SOP as it's asking for trouble- and got changed at QF some years ago for obvious reasons- but it remains a possibility.

OBIE
Quote:...and you call yourselves professional pilots?...

what an embarrassment you are to the profession of Airline Pilots!!



A BIT RICH COMING FROM A SAD L#SER LIKE YOU.
THE PURVEYOR OF THE S###LIST :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Gidday Keg, it's one thing to call for Taxi after you given the verbal "start complete clear to disconnect" call and quite another to do it before!!

In JQ's case they were just finishing starting the right Engine and hadn't told the Engineer to go. ( He was still watching the right Engine and wasn't talking in the headset until after they made the Taxi request. )
he then walked away, waved and they moved off.......

Anyway.............

Fair enough. It'd be interesting to see what the SOP is....or isn't! :eek:

Just like the wing inspection (ice lights) being SOP - and blinding everyone :ok::ok:

Turbantime. Airman ship is a dying quality. Unfortunately this is encouraged by most operators. Treat others as you want to be treated I guess.

To read this entire thread sadly only re enforces the concept the there are almost no gentlemen left in Australian aviation.

To think that this is what it has come to.

Embarrassing.

I reckon you kids could do with a history lesson or two. Its just pathetic the way many conduct themselves in the air and on this Australian forum. You would honestly think your lives depended on it. I suppose being sequenced first and getting that high speed descent is the modern day equivalent of staying south of the border. I'm sure you ALL know what I mean. Many of lessons can be gleaned from the silent minority.

DM

And the source of that statement would be.....?

WARREN

I'm curious about this lose of night vision angle. Seeing as though you need about 30-45 of darkness (absolute darkness) to get night vision up to scratch your night vision is already ruined by the sea of lights that modern airports are. City lights in the back ground, landing lights of approaching aircraft, strobe lights of aircraft either on approach or crossing runways, the brightness of Rwy lights both CL and edge, the apron overhead lights, the headlights/flashing lights of ground vehicles, the light coming from the terminals. These all ruin night vision. Not too mention the fact you only turned down the cockpit lights when you are about to taxi and for the fact that you use white light in cockpits for reading airport charts etc. This is not to say that the wing lights are not annoying but to harp on about ruining night vision is a bit silly.

Perhaps they're referring instead to being dazzled by the lights rather than having night vision ruined. Related but different things.

I suspect abc1 was being facetious with his or her comment about CRM. That said, a number of studies world wide regarding cockpit culture, threat identification and mitigation, error management, etc all point to a positive outcome for 'western' flight decks with lower accident rates than airlines from other areas.. From memory, the yanks, brits, canucks, Aussies, Germans and French all rate pretty highly.

Funny how we digress from Tiger crews requesting push when they're not ready to discussing worldwide CRM effectiveness.

How Ausi’s are viewed overseas?

As an Ausi working oversees for the past 10 years. The reputation we have is split 50/50. There is the relaxed flying professional and the uptight arseholes.

Nothing to do with 89er’s or Ansett. The relaxed flying professional fits in as 99% of pilots elsewhere are like that. The arseholes have a treble rep, and yes the rest of us are tainted with that rep!

Just look at pprune. The D&G site is full of bunch of back stabbing, petty individuals. These people would be regarded as arseholes in the real world.

And yes, being an arsehole has a negative effect on CRM!