Tiger Pilots in/out of Sydney
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Tiger Pilots in/out of Sydney
To all those Tiger guys/gals now flying increasingly out of Sydney,
I don't want this thread to turn into a bitch session but rather to tell you that people are watching and there are some of you guys behaving in an atrocious way in Sydney. The usual sequence is get ready for pushback, ask for pushback, then actually pushback. I have personally observed you guys ask for push, stooge around for another 3 to 4 minutes then actually go...in those 3 minutes you could have another aircraft pushed and gone or another aircraft dock onto an adjacent bay.
Some examples:
Virgin xxx: request pushback
ATC: Virgin xxx pushback approved northern disconnect
Virgin xxx: pushback northern disconnect
Tiger xxx: request pushback
ATC: tiger xxx push approved southern disonnect
Tiger xxx: pushback to southern disconnect
Now the Virgin pushes, does its starts and calls for Taxi and the Tiger hasn't even started moving.
ATC: Tiger xxx, Syd ground, are you pushing if not hold position.
Tiger xxx: Ahh, yeah, we're pushing now
ATC: That's not what I said but since you're already doing it then too late.
Similar example last night with 2 Tigers and a Virgin trying to pushback and get out before curfew.
Tiger xxx: request puschback
ATC: Tiger xxx pushback approved
Then the Virgin and Tiger call for push in sequence.
4 whole minutes pass (remember folks, curfew)
ATC: Tiger xxx, are you pushing back anytime soon?
Tiger xxx: Oh, we're starting engines but you can let the other tiger go 1st
ATC: No, Virgin's next in the queue, Tiger xxx hold position, Virgin push approved.
Then there was a discussion of how curfew ops work out of Sydney between Tiger and ATC. Tiger was not aware that if Taxi clearence is recieved before 11pm then they can T/O anytime after 11pm. It sounded like the ATCO was desperately trying to hint to him to just ask for push and taxi and he'd be covered, but alas the nudge nudge hin hint was lost on him.
Anecdotal evidence shows that these incidents are not isolated and I hope some sort of message gets through to what is hopefully the minority causing the issues.
I also acknowledge that there me other issues at play here such as ramp staff shortage or poor training and therefore taking them forever to hook up towbar etc etc and that it's not neccessarily the tech crew's faults at play.
Rant over!
I don't want this thread to turn into a bitch session but rather to tell you that people are watching and there are some of you guys behaving in an atrocious way in Sydney. The usual sequence is get ready for pushback, ask for pushback, then actually pushback. I have personally observed you guys ask for push, stooge around for another 3 to 4 minutes then actually go...in those 3 minutes you could have another aircraft pushed and gone or another aircraft dock onto an adjacent bay.
Some examples:
Virgin xxx: request pushback
ATC: Virgin xxx pushback approved northern disconnect
Virgin xxx: pushback northern disconnect
Tiger xxx: request pushback
ATC: tiger xxx push approved southern disonnect
Tiger xxx: pushback to southern disconnect
Now the Virgin pushes, does its starts and calls for Taxi and the Tiger hasn't even started moving.
ATC: Tiger xxx, Syd ground, are you pushing if not hold position.
Tiger xxx: Ahh, yeah, we're pushing now
ATC: That's not what I said but since you're already doing it then too late.
Similar example last night with 2 Tigers and a Virgin trying to pushback and get out before curfew.
Tiger xxx: request puschback
ATC: Tiger xxx pushback approved
Then the Virgin and Tiger call for push in sequence.
4 whole minutes pass (remember folks, curfew)
ATC: Tiger xxx, are you pushing back anytime soon?
Tiger xxx: Oh, we're starting engines but you can let the other tiger go 1st
ATC: No, Virgin's next in the queue, Tiger xxx hold position, Virgin push approved.
Then there was a discussion of how curfew ops work out of Sydney between Tiger and ATC. Tiger was not aware that if Taxi clearence is recieved before 11pm then they can T/O anytime after 11pm. It sounded like the ATCO was desperately trying to hint to him to just ask for push and taxi and he'd be covered, but alas the nudge nudge hin hint was lost on him.
Anecdotal evidence shows that these incidents are not isolated and I hope some sort of message gets through to what is hopefully the minority causing the issues.
I also acknowledge that there me other issues at play here such as ramp staff shortage or poor training and therefore taking them forever to hook up towbar etc etc and that it's not neccessarily the tech crew's faults at play.
Rant over!
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Airlines do it all the time... Countless times, both Virgin & Qantas do the exactly the same...
I think you have a bee in your bonet with Tiger? Did you application get rejected?
I think you have a bee in your bonet with Tiger? Did you application get rejected?
Nunc est bibendum
Airlines do it all the time... Countless times, both Virgin & Qantas do the exactly the same...
Perhaps you'd like to re-phrase?
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Turbantime, You are obviously not a High time professional pilot, if you were, you would not have posted such immature rubbish on this forum. I find it hard to believe that you are are 28 years of age.
Bob: suggest your aggro at the previous poster is out of order, perhaps it's YOU who are posting the rubbish.
I know lots of very high time turbine pilots (Ansett and TAA) who did exactly this. It's an annoying and selfish practice and exists amongst all carriers (including QF and DJ) to this day. I do as Keg mentioned and try to amend things when they change but I sometimes suspect I am in the minority!
Before you denegrate somebody, make sure you know what you are talking about.
I know lots of very high time turbine pilots (Ansett and TAA) who did exactly this. It's an annoying and selfish practice and exists amongst all carriers (including QF and DJ) to this day. I do as Keg mentioned and try to amend things when they change but I sometimes suspect I am in the minority!
Before you denegrate somebody, make sure you know what you are talking about.
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Keg,
Perhaps, wasnt meant to say all the time. But, it does happen.
It does happen with all carriers both DJ and QF but perhaps not all the time as I have suggested.
For a number of reasons a 'delayed' pushback holds everything up. We are only human!
Perhaps, wasnt meant to say all the time. But, it does happen.
It does happen with all carriers both DJ and QF but perhaps not all the time as I have suggested.
For a number of reasons a 'delayed' pushback holds everything up. We are only human!
Last edited by Dunnza; 28th Sep 2009 at 12:01.
Nunc est bibendum
Dunnza says it happens. I've been flying domestically since early 1997. I don't ever recall a time when a QF has requested push and not actually been ready for push. I've seen occasions where subsequent things have popped up and ATC have been informed but no one has rorted the system as indicated by turban in their first post.
Tried the same thing at Heathrow. Only to be told by Ground that he had us on the monitor(video) and that we should call back when the Tug driver has finished adjusting the bar.
So yes I spose I'm guilty of trying to get away as soon as possible, who hasn't tried to get an early mark??
Glass houses and all that!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...inksbuddie.gif
So yes I spose I'm guilty of trying to get away as soon as possible, who hasn't tried to get an early mark??
Glass houses and all that!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...inksbuddie.gif
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I'd suggest that we (QF) do NOT do exactly the same. Personally I'm always ready to push when we request it. If something changes and for some reason I'm not able to push within 30 seconds of being granted approval I let ATC know. In my 13 years of domestic operations I've never seen it done any other way by any of the crew I've flown with.
I've never known anyone at VB to use those tactics described, and if ever we have had a subsequent issue arise after we have called for pushback which will delay us by more than 20 or 30 secs, we have cancelled our pushback!
Maybe the Tiger boys were just upset that we wouldn't "Lend" them our engineers to help with their little start problem!
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Al E Vater is correct, it was common practice with both TAA and Ansett, but done with humour and some sledging, and was usually was due to the "Great Australian Air Race" and was part of a normal days flying, and anybody who has seen a AN aircraft pushing back and actually taxing with his steps still retracting (like a giant indicator) will know what I mean, anything to get the nod first. Don't believe it is still going on. Surely.
No need to rant.
From the Tower the delay between request and actual pushback is very noticeable for Tiger pushbacks. If anything positive comes from this discussion and there is a reduction in delays then this will be a win/win.
Ignorance about the curfew is widespread (not just aircrew). Simple set of rules.
For scheduled jet ops, aircraft must be in receipt of taxi clearance BEFORE 11pm and then can depart from RWY 16R after 11pm (at any time really especially when waiting for the downwind to drop).
Sydney ACD 133.8, Sydney Ground 121.7 & 126.5 will assist you with the curfew but it is easier if you at least have some idea.
From the Tower the delay between request and actual pushback is very noticeable for Tiger pushbacks. If anything positive comes from this discussion and there is a reduction in delays then this will be a win/win.
Ignorance about the curfew is widespread (not just aircrew). Simple set of rules.
For scheduled jet ops, aircraft must be in receipt of taxi clearance BEFORE 11pm and then can depart from RWY 16R after 11pm (at any time really especially when waiting for the downwind to drop).
Sydney ACD 133.8, Sydney Ground 121.7 & 126.5 will assist you with the curfew but it is easier if you at least have some idea.
Bottums Up
From the front seat of a 717, and I'd guess many a jet, one can't see the tug driver. An infrequent occurrence is to note that the tug is in position and call for pushback, only to be told, "there's no driver" when advising the venerable gingerbeer that we're ready to pushback.
slight thread kreep
When I was a youngster (baby boomer - just) Aussies were known for giving a fair go. Now it seems to me, sadly, that we're known for hanging sh!t where ever we can.
slight thread kreep
When I was a youngster (baby boomer - just) Aussies were known for giving a fair go. Now it seems to me, sadly, that we're known for hanging sh!t where ever we can.