QF Long Haul Cabin Crew Surplus???
 

Long haul cabin crew are being recruited for Qantas flights.

Qantas Cabin Crew UK Home Page

I guess all the dire threats about emergency action to avoid redundancies can stop now that they are saying they need MORE crew.:hmm:

obira

So Who is Surprised?
 

The attrition rate in the LHR base is high.Dont forget there are 2 or 3 more dugongs on the way.
The Thai base closing will also lead to a need for newbies
BTW how is the LHR/SYD base cross crewing experiment going?

to be honest I have never seen this web site say anything other than they are recruiting now...doesn't mean actual hiring is taking place. The QCCA web site says the same thing....

They don't say the same thing at all.

The QCCA website says:
Status: Accepting interest
Apply: Register now.
QF Cabin Crew Australia Pty Limited Recruitment: Attention
The QCCUK website says:
Status: Recruiting now
Apply: Apply now.
Qantas Cabin Crew UK Recruitment: Attention

ok I got it wrong....oh well. :hmm:

Just to correct a rumour, apparently the BKK base is not closing. The crew there have been put on reserve as their contract is up for renewal. I have no idea behind the reasoning but that is what I was told by a cabin crew manager.

Unfortunately,A higher position on the totem pole does not equate to an increased level of credibility...

It could very well be that they don't want to use the Thai crew but cannot rid themselves of them because they still have contracts...hence the reserve roster.

Or they are using this as an industrial tool to get a better deal in the contract negotiations...

The one thing I have learned though is that whatever they tell you..take it with a grain of salt.

What they want you to think is not necessarily what the reality is...

Anyone know what the going price for cargo is ? :oh:

I can categorically confirm that the Website is wrong and will be most likely updated in a matter of hours.

there is a significant surplus across both LH and SH and there will be NO recruitment in London or anywhere else for quite some time.

In fact they are not even accepting or processing applications and the websites should have been changed to reflect that some time ago.

Just gives false hope to those waiting for a job, and misinformation for those of us inside watching the unfolding recession

Surplus.What Surplus?
 

Qantas currently dont have enough CC to crew their own aircraft.
Ops have been ringing crew on holidays and LWOP asking if they can come back to work and help out.
Forward planning is non existant

just had a look in open time. stuff me, i've never seen so many trips available to bid for. all of these and doesn't include the trips that become available in the last 48 hours or more after close out of open time. too many crew given LWOP and reduced hours. at least it will be keeping the BKK based crew busy!

Couldn't organise a P!## Up in a Brewery
 

I too have been called up by Op's not once, twice,.... BUT 3 times since getting back last night re: additional hours on offer.

What the hell is going on ???


First its too many crew, then we're short, then there's too many oooppps no we're short again..

Is it that hard to plan an operation around crew numbers, aircraft delivery, maintenance etc.......or are the boffins/accountants aka clowns that run this joint have any idea what it takes to run an airline.....:ugh:

Guys its time to put away the abacus for a while and start running the operation via Aircraft numbers,maintenance schedules, block hours planned,routes,pax demand, seasonal variances AND CREW ( tech & cabin) NUMBERS. Simple !.....even a stubby dope like me could do it.:8

Will be interesting to see what happens at the profit announcement tomorrow re: the tripler. Rumour has it....... that QF have at last woken up from their Dixon induced slumber and realise that they have been badly let down by the Boeing spin doctors. Watch for a 777 -ER announcement.:D

Still Recruiting in LHR
 

Well, it's three days since Pegasus747's categorical confirmation that the website is wrong and yet it's still saying 'apply now' and is definitely 100% accepting applications

Just follow the links I posted above to confirm it for yourself.

obira

My last trip,in the briefing the CSM was laughing about all this.He explained he had recently been forced long service leave.But had got an email from his manager a few days before this trip begging CSMs to work on their days off.His response "tell em their dreamin".It made for an amusing briefing:D

yes you are right it hasnt been changed on the website....just goes to show that the base management up in London are also incompetent...

no recruiting in London.....scouts honour :)

What if...?
 

They are recruiting in LHR then it must follow that VR will be offered in Oz.
They are short now with so many on LWOP and LSL.Give it six months when the pent up demand for travel comes roaring back and uh oh we dont have enough crew.
Today they offered LSL on 50% pay.Still they ring you and plead for you to help them out because they are under resourced.
Imagine Christmas this year...a new bid system that nobody has been adequately briefed in and a shortage of crew.Sick leave up when many dont get a normal roster.Should be fun especially if you are on reserve.
Why not introduce the Carmen system after Christmas?.Oops silly me that would require commonsense and foresight.

Just hold on. For those uninformed there is a recruitment freeze in place and has been for a while. There has not been and will not be any recruitment available in the Qantas Cabin Crew area since the freeze was announced and until it ends. The last group to be finalized was the small "Qantas Domestic" arrangement in Perth. Until further notice there will be no more intakes from outside anywhere.

Just hold on boys and girls that is unless they change their minds like the traffic lights on coward street.
and they do more often than not.
doris so does that mean crew are uninformed and that you are in a position to be informed.

i'm on RLH and i keep getting offered trips that would over project me by 25-30 hours. ive already completed max hours but the company still keeps offering me more.

i've turned them down as i believe it sets too much of a precedent for working too many hours! I'm sure there is a lot of crew who would just cash in on the situation.

I think that the BKK base are being treated badly by the company. Either they should renew their contracts or close the base. Putting them on RLH is not very fair. It's playing with their lives.

I'd like to know where the new redundancies announced today are coming from.

This is probably all news to the younger crew but it has happened before back in the 80's during a slow down....

One section of the company was retrenching crew and at the same time another section was hiring crew....

Same old game and the best advice I can give is to go to work and enjoy yourselves....nothing you can do will alter the thought processes of those in the office.

They are doing their best to protect their own jobs but at the end of the day it is them who are really in the line of fire with Mini Darths cost cutting program...

Smile at them when you turn up for sign on and have a laugh as you get on the transport for the terminal....

LL you are correct, I still believe the jobs of CC at the moment are more secure than those in non operational roles in management. There is discussion of further "re-organisation" in management on the way.

Next roster there is a significant reduction in flying that has been planned for some time. Until the end of this roster they are short of crew, but from next roster when the cuts come in there would have been further surpluses if crew hadnt booked the leave burn.

Given that the BKK base crew have not been given ANY work next bid period and the 120 crew average 220 hours each you can see how much work has dissappeared....... Its not a myth

Although i agree the resource management seems to lurch from one crisis to another. there doesnt seem to be an effective plan but perhaps thats symptomatic of the erratic bookings and loads

Uninformed
 

It seems someone finally got around to informing the London base.

They have changed the status on the recruitment website overnight to 'Accepting interest'.

However, the QCCUK homepage (Qantas Cabin Crew UK Home Page)still says:

Flight Attendant applications are now being accepted

Oh dear!

Remember everyone:

Excellence is in the details ;)

Conspiracy theory...
 

H Girl,

Sorry if I'm being slow here but maybe that's the point - that they are actually overstaffed and looking to cut, but first are building a case to counter minimum base rest arguments - "well, we know that people will take less than x hours/days rest because when we paid them, they did it, so now we're just going to demand it and we know you can get by on less base days off". :hmm:

Given that crew have been infringing MBT since 1988 when the current workrules were put in place the company is sure taking its time relying on those stats to promote a reduction in min rest.

What they point to is what crew with all their major competitors get in terms of MBT etc. And even QCCA are still streets ahead of the competitors including Jet*. Of course BA is still the major exception but given they have just announced 2000 crew redundancies i would think that their time for change is on the way.

When you are govt owned its like being in the public service and the conditions of Govt owned airlines are generally more favourable to employees than Private Ent companies.

When they privatise they tend to change...BA being the major exception but as i said i think their time is about to come. I genuinely hope they can hold on to their conditions like the QAL crew have but i think with the financial mess that BA is in i think thats going to be a challenge

Just thought of an idea and wanted to run it past those here....

The tech crew with mainline have an agreement with the company for extending a slip.I don't know if this is just with HNL or with a number of slips.

I don't know what the actual agreement with the company is but it's basically that the crew member can elect to extend their slip from the standard length to 1 week or so.....

The catch is that the crew member has to pay for their food and allowances.

What if this was extended to cabin crew?

The crew member has a slip of a week or maybe two and pays their own accommodation and food.That means substantial savings for the company as well as effectively using more crew for the same hours without additional cost...or it's like the crew member taking LWOP but not at home...which is what the company wants isn't it.

It's just that this way the crew member is taking the leave where he/she wants to take it...

The company wins and the crew wins...everyone would be happy...

Now I wait for the inevitable flak.....:E

hi lobey, think they tried this a few years ago with crew on FRA slips. didn't get much interest as you had to be available at short notice to get back to FRA if someone went sick. try this for a scenario, you book and pay for a weeks accomodation in southern france, buy confirmed ticket back to FRA at the end of the week. crewing calls you morning of day 3, you have to crew back that night to SIN. you lose confirmed ticket back, 4 nights accommodation and no compensation. now if they couldn't have dragged you back kicking and screaming before the week was up maybe it would have seen a much higher take up.
not having a go at you, tell telling you how it WAS.
p.s. a mate did take it and didn't receive a call from schedulers. maybe a slight error in his contact number helped.... Hmmm

G'Day indamiddle.....If that's the case then you would give the idea a wide berth...

But if you were not expected to be available then would it be worth looking at...

Knowing the office as we all do then I could imagine them wanting you to be on virtual standby....but if they agree that you are not on call it could be a way of getting out of this current mess without VR or CR.

I know I would rather take LWOP or LSL at some destination of my choice than at home...

Peggy 47 or should i say
 

the resident union rep.
i have stayed away because it is the same rant all the timebut i have to comment on the very silly statement the local union rep(pegasus 747)
makes above. Peggy 47 states...
"What they point to is what crew with all their major competitors get in terms of MBT etc. And even QCCA are still streets ahead of the competitors including Jet*. Of course BA is still the major exception but given they have just announced 2000 crew redundancies i would think that their time for change is on the way.":=
I think you need to either pay someone or actually talk to some of your union collegues in Europa/US/Asia to get the real picture.
1)[B] Most nation in the developed/emerging markets(Europa/US/Asia/SA) have flight duty limitations on an yearly/monthly/daily hours limit for cabin crew (or base their carriers rostering along those lines).
2) Irrespective of industrial agreements, flight duty limitations provide a balanced environment (LHR base tried to bypass these but were firmly put in place by CAA)
3)e.g You could not do a LAX-JFK-LAX shuttle under US FAA regs. of course our fearless leaders of the FAAA always ignored Flight duty limitations because MM/SR still think their industrial agreement are far superior.:yuk:
4)NZ is the only other country in the region which has no FTL.

correct... and all the lobbying and the hundreds of thousands of dollards spent by the FAAA over many years lobbying CASA and politicians has never delivered FDL for Australian Based Cabin Crew.

Put quite simply neither the ALP or the LIBS are remotely interested in doing anything that will add cost to the operators of airlines.

Put simply yet again... the travelling public dont give a rats Ass about flight attendants working conditions they are only interested in cheap airfares.

The government is allowing almost total deregulation and Qantas Group compete with that. The unions job is to protect jobs. whilst at the same time trying to improve conditions.

In a time when neither the govt, regulator, airlines or travelling public have an appetite for FDL then its very challenging. Perhaps if there is a major accident or incident that can be attributed to fatigue from F/A's then that appetite might change . Until then lobbying, use of media etc is all we can do

I find it both curious and frustrating that when a number of other countries have hours limitations for Cabin Crew our country/politicians and airlines are not interested yet.....

When those countries have a lower Cabin Crew/pax ratio (1:50) than we do (1:36) the country/politicians and airlines suddenly become very interested...

Hopefully,it will not take an accident to wake some people up....

I would have thought that the pilots unions would also be supportive of fatigue issues/hours limitations with Cabin Crew in Australia.

My understanding is that the unions have been doing just that - although the reality is that the regulator has overtly and deliberately put FRMS etc on the back burner.

Govts both Howard & Rudd are disinterested unless there is a personal risk to their bodies or their reputations and image. Even with bilaterals, aviation is critical for Australia but nobody in Canberra has the ability to listen to those that know.

It is an absolute sham and like the whole management of the aviation portfolio the task has been delegated to non operational, 9 to 5 (oops I mean 8:40 to 4:35) flexiday bureaucrats who seem to grasp more foreskin than foresight.

All that said very few pilots & CC would bother to write to the Minister. Also very few would bother to write to the CEO of CASA and challenge the non decisions and non action.

Don't think for a minute that the flying and non flying public care - and even if there's one that goes into the terrain, a few weeks after the funerals it'll be back to AFL, NRL or Britney Spears on the front page.

If we're serious- every person in Australian aviation needs to put pen to paper TODAY -and ask the Minister a few hard questions....otherwise the next thread will be about seniority in centrelink queue.

AT

While the importance of the cabin crew safety role cannot be emphasised enough,
I think it unlikely that there has ever been a life threatening incident onboard an aircraft that can be attributed to cabin crew fatigue.
Fatigue will definitely have an impact on performance in normal situations, ie slides can be accidentally set off on the ground due to fatigue, but such incidents seem to only produce procedural changes to combat them.
Maybe someone can provide some examples of accidents or incidents in which the investigation stated that cabin crew fatigue was a reason for loss of life or injury.

Twiggs in A Vaccuum
 

CC so fatigued that they passed out in an aircraft toilet and sustained serious head trauma
CC going to asleep at their door on aircraft rotation.
Not arming doors,not disarming doors down to fatigue.
How many examples do you want Twiggs?
How can you fly and be so ignorant of these instances?
Most injuries sustained on aircraft occur when the crew member is returning home from a port like LAX or LHR.East West flying involving large time changes and little sleep leading to fatigue.
Very few injuries are sustained by crew flying north/south.
Twiggs the sciolist opens her mouth yet again

I agree with you packrat.

I've heard the stories, and seen an occurrence or two.

My question would be, why have they made themselves available in the first place to fly that particular sector if they are fatigued? They have an obligation to themselves, their fellow crew members, and the passengers to not fly in the first place. That means pulling the pin in port before the duty begins if they are fatigued.

Twiggs.....This time you have outdone yourself ....and that's not easy.

That would have to be one of the most asinine and ingenuous statements I have seen.

Your purpose is so self evident as to be truly machiavellian...

Road authorities know the effect that fatigue has in accidents yet you are claiming that the same is not a factor with crew fatigue....

Why am I not surprised when Twiggs made this comment about cabin crew rest on Jetstar international...

For once I agree with Funbags...

If a crew member feels as though he/she is suffering from a level of fatigue such that they are likely to fall asleep or sufficiently hinder their ability to safely work then it is their responsibility to the pax and the other crew to stand down.

That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard! So BOTH crew omitted to crosscheck arming/disarming?

They both should be stood down.

Methinks you are a drama queen and embellishing the truth somewhat.:yuk:

Obviously I need to be more specific.
Maybe someone can provide some examples of accidents or incidents in which the investigation stated that cabin crew fatigue was a reason for loss of life or injury to passengers.
I'm talking any airline by the way.

Toluene Diisocyanate...

So what's your excuse for omissions on the flight deck with 3 tech crew supposedly checking each other....

Fatigue is an issue with any crew tech or cabin.....and no it's not fiction...

Do you think doors slides are fired off on purpose???

Twiggs....Give it a rest

twiggs,I'll try and treat your question seriously.For a situation as you are alluding to and there is loss of life the incident is usually a catastrophic one.
It is hard to test the fatigue levels of someone who is deceased or someone who has survived an accident and is recovering in hospital and is under medication.Even if the F/A testifies that they felt fatigued at the time of the accident it would be hard to quantify.

The pilots are a little different in that they are operating in a work environment with voice and data recorders.The performance of the aircraft can be analysed to interpret the actions of the pilots prior to an accident.
How can you do the same for f/a's?
There are no machines recording the actions of the f/a prior and during the accident.
So how can you ask for examples?
When you saidyou are saying you don't believe there is any proof and that is exactly what the airline would be saying.

We all know that as human beings we are subject to tiredness the same as anyone else but to quantify it and get some legislation passed is going to be very hard.

Well the silence really does confirm Pegasus747's original statement,

Originally Posted by Pegasus747 http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/viewpost.gif
Perhaps if there is a major accident or incident that can be attributed to fatigue from F/A's then that appetite might change . Until then lobbying, use of media etc is all we can do.


We are all kidding ourselves if we think that CASA really cares if someone faints in the toilet or doesn't arm/disarm their door due to fatigue.
These situations do not put passengers at risk sufficiently to warrant regulation.
Fatigue of cabin crew is an OH&S issue and that's about all.