100 Qantas Pilots to join Jetstar
 

It's a rumour ...

100 Qantas pilots to join Jetstar as FOs. Solves Jetstar's FO shortage and Qantas' pilot excess. Probably tied to ...

Transfer of A330(s) to Jetstar, some (3 or 4) to be based in Darwin. This in turn driven by ...

Jetstar to start Europe flights from Darwin. Tech stop at a mid-East port, probably Dubai, in an response to ...

Strong market share by Emirates and Etihad has eroded Qantas' market share. Already too many LCC through south-east Asia, none yet on the mid-East route. Also ...

A330s ordered by Qantas do not have the oxygen supply necessary to fly via Afghanistan or China, necessitating a mid-East flight plan.

Strange not long ago some QF people wouldn't even spit on a job at J*.

Why would potential EU pax choose to fly to/via Darwin when they can 1 stop from virtually any EU city, via DXB, to Mel/Syd/Per/Bne multiple times/day?

Cheap tickets. Passengers on Jetstar already fly SYD/MEL to BLI/SIN/SGN via DRW, often with several hours on the ground at DRW at some ungodly hour. So I suppose there may be a market there, even with the stopovers, if it's cheap enough.

Agree there about the ticket prices. Only a couple of weeks ago my sister and brother in law booked on a cruise that ends at Honalulu. The travel agent they used booked it all including hawaii stopover etc and return flights home to Sydney. That caused the problem. $2000 ea one way to fly on either Qantas or United home. I told them they are joking and got involved on the internet. The result $695ea on Jetstar a saving of nearly 3k. Sure the LCC might not be the best way to travel with no movies, pay for your meals etc..but, that is a massive difference and can only end up with the LCC's gaining the bulk of the tourist traffic in time unless the legacy carriers wake up to themselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zonker

Strong market share by Emirates and Etihad has eroded Qantas' market share. Already too many LCC through south-east Asia, none yet on the mid-East route. Also ...

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Jetstar is about to overtake Emirates in terms of Australian market share. Jetstar is 0.1% behind EK. Considering EK is operating high capacity metal and JQ has 6 330's and a couple of A320's on SHI, this is a pretty good indication on where things are going...

That writing was on the wall along time ago..And those that didnt see it must have had there eyes shut..Exactly the same as VB..Bully pilots in to positions they never wanted by threats of redundancies..Just another way for management to achieve what they want and need!! A...holes..

AIPA COM members know nothing of this. Ring and ask one like I did if you don't believe me.

Sounds lie some significant lifestyle changes coming up. Does anyone know if it is off the bottom of the list or otherwise?

If Jetstar has an F/O shortage why did they try and cut the Qantas pilots on exchange contracts short?

The only practical way it could happen is SO's being made redundant from mainline could be offerred FO slots at Jetstar via the MOU.
As far as transferring more A330's to Jetstar, Alan Joyce was asked by the AIPA President about this a few weeks ago and was told categorically that it wasn't going to happen.
Mind you, the LH EBA was being voted on at the time and perhaps Joyce would say anything to get that over the line. That was certainly Dixons style.

Correct me if I am wrong but I recall that the MOU only applies to people in Jetstar/QANTAS at the time when it was enacted. That means new hires in the last few years are not eligible. Can't be bothered looking it up.

CTC
 

Wrong,

CTC graduate cadets from the UK will be taking up F/O positions in Jetstar where there are shortages.

CTC Wings is the one of the world's top flight airline pilot training programmes, turning dreams into exciting careers with world-class airlines including easyJet, Thomson Airways/First Choice Airways, British Airways, Jet2.com, Monarch Airlines, Thomas Cook Airlines, JETSTAR, CityJet, DHL Air, Eagle Airways (New Zealand) and easyJet Switzerland..

Due to the downturn in Europe they are being deployed where airline positions are hard to fill such as Jetstar.

fear campaign I would suggest to you that the Jetstar quoted there was for the Vietnam operation.. bit of difference hey!

And lets not get started on how CTC is destroying the market with 6 month contracts for newly qualified guys and paying them 1000 pounds a month for the privilege shall we? :ugh:

Wrong,

CTC cadets originally earmarked for Easyjet on their way to Jetstar NZ as well.

Just how many of these cadets have the right to live and work in NZ? How many are Kiwis?

I wonder, have the NZCAA rubber stamped the NZ JQ company manuals that (that would need to) allow 300hr FO's with no time on type to crew an aircraft conducting RNP approaches into ZQN? Has JQ NZ even got an AOC yet?

From what I heard, AirNZ worked long and hard to get its RNP operation up and running and Jetstar are not finding it that easy either.

I would have to look at the NZ rules, but I recall that you require 500Hrs for part 121 operations...

gee... what a surprise!

Gee thats great news......

I can hear it already, you QF guys are lucky we are hear to save you.

I'm glad you are "hear" to save them.

You nare all wrong acutally, CTC is the company that is placing Easyjet pilots from previous cadet courses with Jetstar NZ. But the requirement to apply for the secondment (which by the way is only a short term 4 month placement) is to have atleast 1500 hours on type. CTC is offering $10,000 nzd per month and a conversion to the NZ ATPL for the contract. So they will be experienced.

AH,

Thanks for the finer detail.

I knew cadets came from Easyjet however was not aware that they already had time with the airline.

I was in no way questioning the standard of the flight crews, cadets or otherwise ex EZY.

A good friend works in standards with BA and speaks extremely highly of all the crew/cadets who are ex Easyjet.

As I understand when things return to normal in Europe the cadets will rush back to Easyjet.

Good pay and conditions, fast progression to command and good representation from BALPA. Not like the race to the bottom mentality here.

I'm sure they will be surprised how bad the pay/conditions are with Low cost carriers in Australia/NZ.

Jetstar should have been looking for Ryanair cadets.They will be used to the mindset in these parts.

I am sure a lot of pilots would LOVE to get transferred to Jetstar to fly their aircraft on the QF longhaul award!

Dale Hardale said:

Care to elaborate?

hmmm, i wonder if any of us in the Q group will ever again see the opportunity to join a European airline like easyjet or ryanair on a 'short term contract'......sounds like a hell of a lot of fun!!!

doubt it though......

Well look on the brightside, at least you will get a command before you are to old to care, less bucks yes, but it is amazing what you can used to, send the missus and the kids if necessary, back to work, by the time krudd has finished with you, (no private medical reductions, more tax (to pay for the bogans to get more tatoos) no maternity leave assistance, and god only knows what other little surprises they have in store for us tomorrow, all because we got off our ar#e and studied for a profession in flying/aviation, and had the hide to make a buck, so going to JQ might be a blessing in disguise, less pay, less tax, for you young blokes, who knows you might be better off in the long run.:rolleyes:

Spot on Teresa. You wont need as much money up in Darwin, the cost of the endorsement will be tax deductible (unless that changes tonight as well!), and you can salary sacrafice the cost of relocating all of your family.
Something about spitting Mr Hat?

Pity it is all a load of doggie doo doo.

teresa green

Just a clarification (and a bit of thread drift):

The maternity leave assistance which will be announced tonight is only means tested on the primary carer (i.e. usually the mother). Therefore you could earn $1 million but as long as your wife doesn't earn more than $150,000 you qualify. I agree the new rules on the private health insurance rebate are a kick in the nuts.

As for the command, I'm willing to wait if it means it's got a Kangaroo on the tail and flown under decent conditions.

Beg to differ Hotnhigh, the expense of living in Darwin is huge. I'm currently looking for another rental, and there is nothing decent under $700 a week. Happy hour at deck bar is the only thing cheap up here!

Thats right high ironic that QF pilots could find themselves in the Silver colours when some once upon a time saw the Jetstar types as beneath them.

Mr Hat, I say again; This entire thread is a load of codswallop.

Fair enough.:ooh:

CK

Absolutely!

N

Capt Kremin

You may well be right . . . but the 'rumour' might also be the result of a change in consumer sentiment to select cheaper fares (see below).

Also, if air fares have fallen between 20% - 40% (as reported below) and there are fewer people flying, those airlines with a lower cost base are probably in a better position for the current circumstances.

But this is based entirely on one article - perhaps there is more?

Cheers

Pedota



Air fares cheapest for decade
Jonathan Dart
May 13, 2009

AIR FARES are at their cheapest in more than a decade as airlines discount tickets in a contest for budget travellers.

The managing director of Webjet, David Clarke, has calculated that international fares have fallen, on average, by 40 per cent, and domestic fares by about 20 per cent, this year.

He said a range of factors had contributed to the bargains: a fall in demand for first-class and business-class tickets, increased capacity, greater competition and a fall in the number of tourists travelling from countries such as the US.

But the main trend has been a shift in consumer sentiment. Passengers are hunting for budget tickets and are not willing to pay the normal fare.(My emphasis).

New carriers such as Tiger Airlines have joined the domestic market in recent months, and Delta Air Lines will break into the trans-Pacific market in July.

Return fares to Los Angeles are about $1000, down from about $2000 a year ago, while return tickets to London cost about $1500, down from $2500.

"A major discount on domestic air fares was launched (last) Wednesday morning and the reaction from the travelling community was absolutely instantaneous," Mr Clarke said. "By 9am we were running at absolutely peak levels, so the market is very, very sensitive to bargains. It waits for them, it hunts them out."

A Flight Centre spokesman, Haydn Long, said there had been a fall in demand for long-haul international flights.

Mr Clarke said: "Where we've most noticed the change is the premium long haul, the top end of the market. The adventure market has been quite strong all year - those guys who are the backpackers and are not concerned about mortgages or job security."

While there is disagreement as to how long the discounting will last, Mr Long said current prices were unsustainable.

But for businesses, at least, the thrift mentality will be hard to shake.

Linda Brettell, managing director of Sanford Travel in Sydney, is working with a large number of her corporate clients to adjust to the recession.

She said there had been a significant reduction in first-class and business-class travel and an increase in teleconferencing as an alternative to travel.

But she said there were some important caveats for businesses trying to cash in on airlines' race to the bottom, with strict conditions being placed on the discount fares.

"Companies are going best fare or the cheapest fare of the day, however it is not always in their best interest - companies need to consider the real cost," Ms Brettell said.

"Buying the cheapest flights and pre-paying accommodation in full prior to travel leaves no flexibility for changes or cancellations and companies are forfeiting hundreds of dollars when travel plans change," she said.

No-one is denying that demand for air travel has fallen due to the GFC.

However, this thread specifically mentions that "meetings" have taken place to allow 100 pilots from Qantas to be transferred to Jetstar. The originator of the thread speculated it was to facilitate the transfer of mainline A330's to Jetstar and that the transferred pilots would be FO's.

AIPA had a COM meeting yesterday and no such proposal was mentioned. You would think such a proposal would have been number one on the agenda. Nothing.

Either the AIPA Exec aren't telling their own COM something extremely important or there is absolutely no substance to the rumour. My bet is on the second option.

The AIPA Exec brought the further transfer of mainline A330's to Jetstar up with Joyce who ruled it out categorically. Take that for what it is worth. If redundancies are going to happen in mainline they will be by the contract. So unless the bottom 100 pilots are A330 endorsed then that would mean redundancy out of seniority or the transferring of pilots, against their will, to a different lower paying airline to do the same job .

Regardless of what the AFAP did or did not do to defend the Virgin pilots from that, AIPA is cashed up and the Company could expect one hell of a fight. Transferring pilots from one base to another out of seniority is one thing; transferring them out of seniority, possible out of category, into a supposedly separate airline is quite another.

Nothing of the sort has been mentioned by AIPA and it is a legal morass without AIPA's express consent, which one would hope, they would never give.

It's a load of codwallop.

Codwallop - Correct

Per the MOU, only those employed at the time of the agreement are elgible for the exchange of career opportunities afforded by the MOU.

Those who do choose to avail themselves of the MOU, do so on a voluntary basis & as such are required to meet the selection criteria of the recipient airline.

Except that:

The MOU has a redundancy clause, whereas should a pilot be made redundant from one group airline, then transfer would be facilitated, should the recipient airline need crew & subject to the recipient airlines selection criteria.

Any redundancy in mainline would have to be as per the certified agreement. Last ON first OFF principle. So any reference to transfer of crew would be applicable to SO's, of which a large proportion are not eligble. As for those SO's remaining, SO's who really wanted to transfer to J* have already done so a few years back or weren't allowed release from mainline at the time.

Looks like an own goal there.

The whole deal of assigning leave & LSL to mainline crew whilst employing/OS contractors in j* would appear demonstrable example of loading the costs onto the mainline side of the business. To what end?
The last AIPA president begged and pleaded to allow flexibility (the sort mainline pilots are accused of not being able to demonstrate) in crewing group aircraft to minimise this exact problem.
It would appear that management are demonstrating their inflexibility, perhaps this has been the problem all along.

Unless you have some accounting skills you should really refrain from such absurd statements.

Leave entitlements are a liability incrementally incurred by the employer during the course of an employees work. Even if as you infer, crew were transferred to J* instead of contract workers, the leave liability still exits within mainline.

tsalta