Where are our experts giving their expert opinions on how V is doomed? This thread has far too many positive posts........

Poor darlings exhausted if less than 50 hours slip, more like "if I can't shop and party for 50 hours then I'll have a hissy fit". Get used to 38 hour slips.

With the Vaus arrival time of 0700 LAX by the time you get to the hotel it will be early AM time back home and the body will be ready to sleep. After a few hours sleep you will be up and about till later that night LAX time. Best time for sleep is from about 0400 LMT LAX and you will sleep through until about 1400 LMT LAX easily. Then up and about for a few hours then off to work at around 2030 LMT LAX.

You will get plenty of sleep in the 2 sleep periods, you will not be exhausted. As soon as Vaus have the aircraft to make it a daily service, you will be on 38 hours slip. There is absolutely no fatigue modeling that will justify otherwise. Get used to long haul flying, its about many time zone changes, sufficient rest to have you safe for the return flight, and nothing else.

Another positive part about it (reducing slip time while in LA-LA-Land), is that you get more time at home base with the people you care for. Win-win:ok:

Mr Wooby - V are daily already and check the flight timings - we arrive 1630 in the arvo into LAX. If it goes to 1 night that will not be a 38hr stay more like 28hrs.

Redjet - true in some respects but then V could squeeze in 5 trips per month instead of the current 4. So at home you would be like a zombie trying to recover from the time zone changes and don't forget reduction in allowances.

Didn't realise Vaus was daily BNE-LAX yet, however Vaus website shows dep BNE1100 LMT arr LAX 0700 LMT, Dep LAX 22:30 LMT arr BNE 0520 LMT. The flt you're talking about is SYD-LAX

I agree that later arrivals into LAX are much harder, QF AKL-LAX typically gets in to LAX around midday, and you are totally buggered. It really depends on sleep periods, you need to get 2 sleep periods, one to get over the flight, then another good rest to prepare for next flight. This would be achieved in a 28 hour slip, but a bit hard on the crew, you be in bed for about 16 hours with a few hours to eat. So SYD slip would probably stay the extra day.

As for squeezing in more flights, if you are on 38 hours slip arrive morning and dep the following evening and sleep as I referred to in my previous post you basically stay on sydney time. The jet lag is minimal and you recover fairly quickly. However, if you have a longer slip and do a bit of sightseeing during the day, prepare to pay the price at home. Basically in LAX, sleep during the day, awake at night.

So, the whining is starting already. Didn't you read your agreement? Didn't you listen when the more experienced crews told you what would happen? Guess you just better get used to it. As for "reconsidering", good time to be doing that right now. NOT!

V Australia and EY have been using the EK gate.

Although a great gate with direct access to the lounge,
It is the furthest gate away!

Mr Wooby...I've been in the industry for quite a few years, but what is this LMT thingy? Is it a secret crew term, or something that is used by VA. It suspiciously looks like local time to me, which for at least the last 20 years that I know of has been what departure and arrival times are displayed as. I could be wrong, though.

What? VOZ has been flying for what, a whole month now? And people are threatening to leave already? Didn't these people realise that flying to LAX and back involved crossing time zones and is exhausting? Gee, the glamour has rubbed off really quickly. If this talk is serious, then VOZ will be burning and churning them real hard. The great T and C's, wouldn't be adding to the supposed problem?

Local Mean Time- Standard Aviation terminology for a lot longer than your "Quite a few years" I assure you!

Maybe. But....LMT was replaced by LST (Local Standard Time) or LT (Local Time) as LMT was in vogue when sundials were used. The use of LMT in this thread is the first time I've seen it used in commercial aviation. Best to stick with LT, DST, GMT or UTC - at least everyone would know what these terms mean.

Now, back to the whingeing and whining from the Pacific Intruders.

LMT is the actual solar (sun) time. Not usually used in normal polite non navigation related conversation.

Usually only used when calculating first/last light. Cabin crew would not normally be expected to understand or need to know how to calculate.

First time I've seen it refered to in any other way, ever!

:confused::confused:

Cheers somewhereat1.

So does the company have a policy of no first class meals to crew? I imagine by the end of the sector that they get turfed anyway...

Early days yet i suppose.

Why would a two-class airline load first class meals for crew? :ugh:

Those airlines that do offer First Class service certainly don't load First Class catering for crew. For those crew "fortunate" enough to eat the scraps, could one be excused for thinking that that would be the best food these scroungers ever get to eat.

Ken, i didn't say they were loading first class meals for crew. I'm asking someone that knows about V australia if the crews are allowed to eat the left over 1 st class meals as is the case in many airlines around the world.

It couldn't be any simpler: why would any airline that offers Business Class and Economy Class load First Class meals for anyone, let alone the crew? :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Mr Hat,

Ken is a little slow on the uptake but I get your point.

They would be unlikely to have any first class meals left over if they don't have a first class cabin..........

Here's your chance Sam. Jump in anytime you wish. :}

Nah KRUSTY old mate, he aint expert, just a psychotic sociopath, or he's one of your many nom de plumes?.....good to see you havent been sledging VA or VB lately, you may need them for a job when the industry picks up..that is if you havent burnt any bridges??:ok:

yep no worries my mistake, didn't realise the cabin configuration - left over business class meals do the get chucked or offered to crew?

Crew can eat anything they want as long as the pax don't miss out!!

QF Tech crew meals are a different speck to the e/pe/b/f meals.

Amazing!!! I am always amazed by people who have nothing to do with an airline that are always so quick to comment on it.

I have been with Vaustralia now for 8 months and it has been absolutely fantastic.

The easiest job in the world. Those who think "long haul" is difficult are misguided. Get in the aircraft, work for an hour, go to bed for 6 hours, work for 6 hours and then go out and have a fabulous time with fantastic crew. 50 hours of rest and relaxation and then do it all again back to Australia. A 2 hour nap when I get home and then back to normal. 7 days off before I do it again. Fantastic....those that aren't a part of it don't know what they are missing.

Fantastic crew, fantastic aircraft, fantastic time. You are a bunch of wimps!!!

V-SFO,

I'd love to come join you there except for the UNFANTASTIC paycheck! :hmm:

v-sfo , it's good to hear someone who enjoys their work rather than bitching about others.
Good luck with V
Cheers

How does one make a small fortune as a VOZ First Officer? :ok:

A SFO with V Australia would earn about twice what you earn as a Saab driver KRUSTY..your sarcasm is noted however...:ok:

Take the bait!
 

Christ Sam, you must have been hovering for weeks waiting for the opportunity jump on Krusty. And all he did was make a one line tounge in cheek remark! Predictable and puzzleing, as there has been ample scope to debunk all manner of critisim from other posters in the meantime.

I should say I'm honoured, but in fact it's just downright creepy!

The truth of course, is that it's all been said. If VA is a sucess, I will happily acknowledge the decision made by all the people that have worked so hard, and just as happily commend Virgin for pulling off what many on this forum see as nothing short of a magic act. If VOZ does not suceed, then I will say nothing, because as I have stated, it's all been said before.

Whatever reason the pilots at VA (especially the CFO's) have for accepting what are arguably the lowest 777 wages in the world, at the end of the day it's their decision. The fact that people choose to comment on it, well that's their choice.

Pilots can't spel.
 

Sorry, but I can't help it:

Prerogative.

Continue..........

KRUSTY, I think thats very big of you to not comment if VA fail.....after all, you told us VA was doomed didnt you?

Me and many others Sam old mate!

Time will tell. :(

flight crew also eat economy meals?

V-SFO

I guess that as much as you are entitled to criticise the comments of other posters, it is the entitlement of other individuals to have their own opinion.

I'm glad that after 8 months with VA you speak so highly of the operation.

In that 8 months how many trips have you actually done?

You criticise others with "nothing to do with an airline" yet your vast experience as a Long Haul pilot allows you to tell us how easy the job is.

Sometimes it's just better to STFU.

I genuinely hope that the operation flourishes but your enthusiasm might be challenged a bit in the future when the accountants start demanding their pound of flesh.

I can assure you that your week long rest at home and the 50 hours in downtown LA will take a hit when VA have more than ONE destination.

As for the "easiest job in the world" - does your Captain sleep much on these flights?

By all means enjoy the 'FANTASTIC' times but I would suggest that you're in for a very rude awakening.

Yeah, thats right KRUSTY, you guys did, and still do sh!tcan VA....on a public forum and under the guise of a made up name..how very professional and brave of you guys.........

sorry V-SFO I have to comment on your reply.


After you've done ULH for 10 years, including minimum rest at outports, big time zone changes and crap flights where you couldn't sleep in the bunk for that wopping 6 hrs ( turb etc ) THEN you can comment.

And how you can be back to normal 2 hrs after getting home is amazingly good stuff!!

You, my 777 friend are very much in the "Honeymoon" stage at VOZ.

Good luck, you're gunna need it in the future if VOZ survives because as ad-astra said "when the accountants start demanding their pound of flesh"

Absolutely amazing!!

So we actually have a Ppruner that's come out and stated that based upon his own personal experience - he is actually happy with his lot and enjoy what he does for a leaving and you f%$#ing morons STILL can't help yourself, but shoot him down in flames telling him he's got absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Well i say good onya V-SFO - I can't wait to join you in VA, starting my course in May. Honeymoon or not - heck I've been married for 15 years and it still feels like I'm on my honeymoon, but I suppose I shouldn't say that here, 'cause there is bound to be someone telling me that I'm actually wrong and that Mrs. Red Jet is no good and I must be deluded or something.:ugh:
Let's make that honey moon last:ok:
Why don't you trolls try to ask yourself why the heck you got into into aviation in the first place?? Life's too short to be so negative guys!! Rant finished.

Pilots speak - "The easiest job in the world"

Accountants speak - "an under-utilised unit of labour"

Thanks Redjet...

For the record I am not a newbie at the airline game, nor at long haul. I have 30 years of flying experience and about 6 years of medium to "ultra" long haul. I have worked for 6 major airlines in that time, including the 3 biggest in the world.

I am built for long haul....pure and simple. I am also realistic about how things are and how things can be. So far, Vaustralia has lived up to all that they have promised me and more. Is the salary crap??? YES!!! But as I get older I realize it is more about loving the job and less about getting rich. My kids go to private school, I have a house, a boat, a motorcycle and no debt besides the mortgage.

I believe that my Captains sleep extremely well, and that is the direct result of the experience that I and the other First Officers bring to the cockpit (most of us have been 737 or A-320 captains in the past). If they don't sleep well they shouldn't be a captain.

Will VOZ survive? I believe that if any airline will survive across the Pacific we will. I have worked for both our rivals on that route and can guarantee that we are head and shoulders above one and at least equal to the other. As I stand at the door and say goodbye to the passengers I have heard the "way better than Qantas" at least 20 times.

I have done 6 trips in the past two months. Really that is all you can realistically do and it has been very easy. How do I recover so easily? Because I never leave Sydney time. We depart Sydney in the evening, I usually get the first rest as I am a early to bed, early to rise guy, I sleep from about 10 pm to 4 am Sydney time, which is just about my normal sleep pattern. We get into Los Angeles at 1630 local, late morning on the body. I stay up until about 4 am local/9 pm Sydney and sleep till noon local/5 am sydney time. We depart for home 50 hours later in the Los Angeles evening, but afternoon on the body. Most captains do a 2 rest period on the way back, usually 90 minutes - 2 hours on the first rest and then 4.5 to 5 on the second. I usually watch a movie and eat dinner on the short rest and sleep on the 2nd. Get into Sydney at 7 am, get home by about 10:30 am on the commute. Have a sleep for a couple hours if the kids are in school, don't sleep if they are home. Go to bed that night around 9-10 pm and sleep a little extra than nomal, maybe 9 hours and I am"back to normal".

Compare this with my last airline, where at times I would have to get up at 2 a.m. drive 2 hours and 15 minutes to work for a 5 am sign on, Fly 4 sectors (boring sectors!!) with a hurry hurry hurry attitude, block in 9 hours after our first block out, and drive 2 hours home in traffic to get home around 1700, in bed by 8 pm to do it all again the next day. Way less money to do that as an F/O and after the government takes there cut, only slightly better salary doing it as a Captain. So for me, easy decision.

As for the meals....I don't know what class they come from but they are better than my last airline, worse than the other airlines pre 9/11 but better than post 9/11. The bottom line is I don't worry about it. The coffee is good, if I want fresh fruit it is available and the meals are good. I got bigger issues to think about than that.

Lastly, the hotel has been extremely good. They bend over backwards to keep us happy as once we start MEL-LAX we will take about 40% of their capacity everynight. Although a bit far from the shopping and such, there are great restaurants and bars a short walk away. I also puchased a 150cc motorscooter that they let me keep in the basement garage so I can get out and do things all around the southland. I am trying to get a group of pilots to go in on 4-8 scooters that we will have available. Transportation is key in Los Angeles!

So keep slagging. I am old enough now that I don't succumb to peer pressure. I love the job and the people I work with and will continue to have a positive attitude until I see a reason not to. If we make it we do, if we don't, we don't. I have been around the game long enough to know that their is always another flying job and you make it what you make it.

There are risks in everything you do....take them when you can, hunker down when you can't. :O

Interesting read Sir,
Thanks for sharing

Yeah it might be great at the moment while things are a little under utilised but just like Virgin Blue; wait until it ramps up and you start getting pushed a little more with more flights and maybe some domestic flying. I think that is when the EBA conditions might start to bight a bit.

So you call 13 hours over water with nothing out the window interesting?:rolleyes: