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Qantas to cancel 787
Rumour has it that Qantas are about to cancel their initial order for 787s (and this one didnt come from the Townsville refueller).
Anyone heard anything? Looks like the a350 is on the cards again.. |
Rumour is that Qantas is NOT going to cancel it's 787 order.
(Nice first post Woody) :} |
Looks like the a350 is on the cards again.. Whichever manufacturer is currently in town is always the flavour of the rumour month, and I suspect someone has seen a shiny new model aircraft and leapt, quite naturally, to a conclusion. That's the way it used to work anyway. |
The first A350 is not due till 2013 and beyond. Who is to say that it won't be delayed either.
If the 787 IS cancelled by QF (big if), it would need to be replaced by something available now. The B777 or more A330's would be the only aircraft that would fit the bill. |
Does anyone else know of a good fishing spot? Other than Pprune of course?
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The CEO has made no secret of the fact that if the aviation environment doesn't improve then Qantas will cancel the order for the first 10 787's they have ordered.
I doubt they'd cancel the order for the rest though! |
If the early B787 aircraft are not required to be in service ASAP, then it would make sense to cancel the first 10 slots so that they take delivery of airframes that have benefited from a more mature production process i.e. the aircraft will be lighter and plumbing/electrical systems will be more standardised.
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And Jetstar miss out on them! :eek:
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apparantely they're going to pay cash only for the 787:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
can't wait for this crisis to be over so all these crap threads die off |
I thought AJ was going to put them on his credit card, and collect a few FF points!
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Why wont QF order the B777!!!
Rumoured we were about to order 8 last year B773ER, then the down turn. 4 Engines 4 long haul has gone! |
Doubt it
I know the airline industry is in turbulence but remember that Jetstar is the big performer of the Qantas group at present. They may cancel some of their orders but with the likes of Air Asia and middle east airlines taking away market share on the europe route, why would they forgo 787's at a time when budget carriers are doing well and have the potential to claw back market share?
Also lets not forget Jetstar are in Singapore and Vietnam. Nothing to stop Qantas group from switching aircraft to these markets. |
Jetstar is the big performer of the Qantas group at present I thought QF were gifting routes to Jetstar as they pull out, hence Jetstars artificial increase in capacity and QFs decline in capacity. Just a different form of balance sheet adjustment isnt it? |
Blueloo you are are correct, they are just gifting the routes to Jetstar. But I still don't think that Qantas group will give up the routes to Europe. If they can fly to Munich cheaper than a Qantas plane then they may as well do it now.
Also lets not forget one of the strategies of many airlines to cope with downturn is to open up new routes. Just look at VB, opening up new routes all the time (CBR-HOB, CBR-Townsville etc) |
Here we go again - the old JQ is gifted routes, subsidised, really just a sham etc. etc. blah blah blah...... :{
Some people need to get a life, or failing that a real day job. If I were a QF person right now I would be more worried about QF's performance than JQ's HINT HINT. := |
Why wont QF order the B777!!! |
is this before or after Virgin Blue goes bankrupt? :ugh:
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is this before or after Virgin Blue goes bankrupt? S2K |
JQ Sh^tyflyer here we come!
VH-JJW-don't forget while TT had just announced SYD-MEL, JQ will be 'gifted' that route too? I am getting tired of QF management offering JQ a pick of QF routes! :rolleyes:
What utter crap!:= |
I think the reality about SYD - MEL within the QF group, is that whoever can give the greatest yield will do the flying. In times like these, JQ probably has a nose in front.
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Who could have guessed this thread would become a pissing contest between QF and JQ. The world has gone mad.
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JQ Sh^tyflyer here we come! VH-JJW-don't forget while TT had just announced SYD-MEL, JQ will be 'gifted' that route too? I am getting tired of QF management offering JQ a pick of QF routes! :rolleyes: What utter crap!:= There is only one reason JQ would fly MEL - SYD. Qantas Group will protect its market share and if Qantas Airlines cannot do that profitably then they will look to alternatives. Which would you rather glarse, QF lose money or hand market share to Tiger and Virgin? If you don't like it then too bad, I suggest you start building a bridge :{ |
Boeing to Adjust 2010 Twin-Aisle Airplane Production Plan
First-Quarter 2009 Results to Reflect Impacts of Production Decisions and Lower Price Escalation
(Seattle, April 9, 2009) -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced that it will adjust its twin-aisle airplane production plans for 2010 due to significant deterioration in the business environment for airlines and cargo operators driven by unprecedented global economic conditions. Monthly production of the 777 will decline from seven to five airplanes per month beginning in June 2010. Boeing will also delay previous plans to modestly increase 747-8 and 767 production. No change is being made at this time to the 737 production rate. In addition, the weak global economy has contributed to significant declines in the escalation indices that affect forecasted pricing for commercial airplanes already ordered. The production decisions and unfavorable price escalation are expected to reduce Boeing's first-quarter 2009 net earnings by approximately $0.38 per share. Because the 747 program is currently in a loss position, the reduced earnings associated with the factors above will be recorded for most units in the 747 backlog. That impact, somewhat offset by a refinement in cost estimates, accounts for approximately $0.31 per share of the first-quarter charge. For the other commercial programs, the impact will be reflected in lower margins on deliveries as they occur, including an estimated $0.07 per share net earnings reduction in the quarter. The company will update its 2009 guidance when it reports first-quarter results on April 22. "These are extremely difficult economic times for our customers," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Scott Carson. "It's necessary to adjust our production plans to align supply with these tough market conditions. We are in close contact with our customers as we continue to monitor this dynamic business environment." The production rate decisions announced today solely reflect delivery deferrals requested by customers in response to unprecedented declines in global passenger and air-cargo volumes. No 767, 747 or 777 orders have been cancelled this year. Boeing's commercial backlog of more than 3,500 airplanes remains strong and well-diversified in terms of airplane models, geography and customer business models. Source : Boeing |
B787 But a Dream?
Putting aside the lure of what QF may or may not do I am more interested in the fact that the Dreamliner is now several years behind schedule in terms of even getting the beastie into the air to see if it actually works. Seems the official word out of Seattle avoids the issue altogether. The order book is only holding because of the age of most operators fleets already, e.g. QF and they need any efficiencies they can get out of any airframe, not just a 787. The GFC has also put a spanner into the world of esoteric aircraft finance, AIG was the big mover and shaker here, so funding the build lines may yet cause some major problems.
Add to the mix - "Hmmm youre losing money on most routes, you've got a lot of pension liabilities there, how much tied up in the Freq Flyer scheme to be redeemed, the IMF are forecasting negative GDP for as far as the eye can see, and you want to borrow what for what when?" Seems if your company has cash or a sovereign wealth fund behind it, it may do the deal but everyone else is looking decidedly uninteresting from an investment perspective. |
Bugger of a business aviation is it not? Seems mum may find out now that I am not a piano player in some honky tonk bar after all if this all keeps going.
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If QF ain't flyin the 787 they wont be competing..... you can figure the rest......... It'll be coming.
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Gripe Pipe.....I can assure you, that around the end of this month the first 787 flight will happen!:ok:
Now there is always a small chance of a delay, but lets just say I have good sources, and unless something stuffs up it will be on. I will let you know when I know! J |
Jabawoky, wasn't there a small 3 inch gap when they fitted the first rudder to the empanage? That might slow things up a wee bit.
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(and this one didnt come from the Townsville refueller) |
They have had their share of drama that is for sure, you may have read about fuel tank tests and also the leaks from the pressure tests on the fuse:uhoh: so once they get the Skia Flex all squirted in the right places it should be good! :8
I will have to see what else I can find out, but its got to be sourced carefully! :ooh: |
Ok.............. I assured you they were going to fly it... big mistake Jaba...:ugh:
They moved it to early June and then................ OOOOOPS!!!! Well the July test flight is still planned, but after the weekends activities do not be surprised to find that slips a fair bit! :ooh: Plane 1 went in for fuel cell tests (with H2O) and failed miserably and this is the second failure. That however is insignificant compared to a hydraulic line failure, also seemingly not a show stopper, except that the hydraulic failure has breached the hull of a "composite" airframe. Now I do not have the the first hand info here but repairing any composite structure is hard work but impregnated with hydraulic oil would render a repair impossible. So I am not sure what happens next, time will tell as to how bad it is, but it can not be good! Now No.2 is not out of the wars either, some bean head ran a scissor lift into the horizontal stab............. ya gotta think there is some plot to bring this program down...... a conspiracy perhaps! :suspect: So it now has a 12 inch or so square impact damage zone and may have to be replaced! :uhoh: So don't hold your breath!:( J |
nice work jabba
sounds like the 3 stooges are running the show over there if what your source tells is correct.
thanks for the updates. Reckon qantas will make more money from penalty clauses for late delivery than flying them.:E |
Stories are true, the specific details are lacking so far, and how the rectification and other long term issues will be dealt with is unclear.
But hey.........nothing ventured, nothing gained. I do believe it will succeed, its just like most things, time and money! |
I for one am happy that these hull damages happened in the shop before it was released to the flying public. It will be testimony to the repair capabilities of the plastic fantastic.
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Must be a sign of the times.
Superglue now, instead of highspeed tape and staples is it?:ok: |
Dreamliner moves to flight line for testing
The Boeing Co. (Seattle, Wash.) announced on May 3 that the 787 Dreamliner that will fly later this quarter has moved to the flight line. Fuel testing — the first in the next phase of extensive checks the airplane must undergo — will begin in the next few days. "We are making great progress, and moving ever-closer to first flight," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 Dreamliner program. In recent weeks, the 787 (designated ZA001) completed a rigorous series of tests including build verification tests, structures and systems integration tests, landing gear swings and factory gauntlet, which is the full simulation of first flight using the actual airplane. With chief pilot Mike Carriker at the controls, the simulation tested all flight controls, hardware and software. The simulation also included manual and automatic landings and an extensive suite of subsequent ground tests. "These results give us confidence in our ability to move into further gauntlet testing using either ground power or the airplane's engines or auxiliary power unit. This is a significant milestone on the path to first flight," Fancher said. All structural tests required on the static airframe prior to first flight also are complete. The final test occurred April 21 when the wing and trailing edges were subjected to their limit load — the highest loads expected to be seen in service. The load is about the same as the airplane experiencing 2.5 times the force of gravity. "We continue to analyze the data, but the initial results are positive," Fancher said. On April 13, the leading edge of the wing was subjected to its limit load while the rest of the airplane was subjected to loads expected at cruise. And in September 2008, the "high blow" high-pressure test was completed on the static airframe. During that test, the airframe reached an internal pressure of 150 percent of the maximum levels expected to be seen in service — 14.9 lb/sq inch (1.05 kg/sq cm) gauge (psig). Ground vibration testing, which measures the airplane's response to flutter, also concluded on the second flight-test airplane, designated ZA002, at the end of this week. All the necessary structural tests required prior to first flight now are complete. Now on the flight line, ZA001 will undergo additional airplane power and systems tests as well as engine runs. After completing final systems checks and high-speed taxi tests, the airplane will be ready for first flight, which is on schedule for later this quarter Composites World |
slammer
The Boeing Co. (Seattle, Wash.) announced on May 3 that the 787 Dreamliner that will fly later this quarter has moved to the flight line. Fuel testing — the first in the next phase of extensive checks the airplane must undergo — will begin in the next few days. Will do some more digging............ |
Something is cooking in Everett :ooh:
The Flight Line Web Cam which is very powerful is offline until approx May 25th due to security reasons. Maybe the security risk will cease to exist in early June ;) One wonders what they could be trying to keep under wraps :suspect: Emergency repairs perhaps, major rework............:E Can't wait to see her fly though. J |
Looks like things are indeed moving on the B787 front.
Must have been a very minor leak (if any) to have them firing up the old Rollers so soon. Let it rip... ATW Daily News |
It happened.........like all things, it just takes time and money!
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