Interested to hear if they got their numbers for their Domestic Launch soon? Is the proposed pay rate debated about in this thread the real deal, or has there been some negotiations taking place..?

I heard a rumour that Jetsar is offering about $9500/month for New Zealand FO's. That sounds like OK money to me.

Na that's to the CTC/EASYJET crew they will get down here on secondment to cover the shortfall in crew numbers - probably what a Captain earns, imagine the cockpit dynamic. It's actually $9500 plus incentive pay of $125 per hour over 75.

Sadly whats happening is QF and Jetstar are exploiting lower wages and conditions in NZ from people that would be prepared to work for less....if nothing is done about it soon, it could have ramifications for Jetstar and other airlines in Australia....

I say to the Kiwis and others looking at this..look beyond the shiny jet syndrome, put your foot down and make a stand for a change, instead of accepting low pay and conditions, then whinging in 12 months time that your Australian counterparts get paid more...nows the time to show some backbone....your choice....you guys in NZALPA, AFAP and AIPA need to get behind each other and become united.

Well said Sand dune. Unfortunately there are those who are very shortsighted, that includes Jetstar management.

To those FO's currently taking up this offer, shame on you. You can look back on this in 10 years time and proudly say that YOU played a part in the lowering of T&C's in Australasia. Management puppets.

Please don't bother writing your snivling comments to cover up your insecurity and willingness to get ahead of your fellow aviators at ANY expense.

To all the girls and guys out there with a backbone and integrity, hang in there. Say NO to these ridiculous insulting T&C's. They are getting better and provided we all so no they will be bought up to an industry standard.

To Jetstar Management. Your shortsighted approach to this industry will eventually bite you in the arse. With inexperience comes accidents, and when there is an accident, you will be exposed and very alone. The recent Q400 accident in the states is the case and point. Your low salaries will have an adverse affect for your future operations.

Thanks for clearing that up Craka

I have since heard that Jetstar are also paying travel and accomodation costs for these guys.

This isn't making sense to me. Everyones bitching about the T & C's being offered, yet Jetstar are paying well in excess of $110,000pa for temporary FO's.

I know short term contracts attract a premium for salary but if they can afford to pay this amount surely they can pay a good market rate for their own valuable permanent staff.

Since they aren't paying a fair rate the obvious message is they don't value their own staff.

good news is that NZALPA are on the case, and like a good fight!

Its a positive step if NZALPA are looking at getting involved.

Just as a matter of interest, anybody willing to give some ball park figures for an Air Nelson FO/Capt?
Not saying Jetstar should be comparable, just like to have a handle on the current market state of play there, the others I sort of know. cheers

DC Air Nsn salaies go like this.

Captains start on $72000 increasing yearly. 10yrs plus gets $108000
FOs $44000 up to $63000 after 7yrs. If you have your ATPL subjects then you get yr2 which is close to $50000.

7.5% super. Can elect to put some in Kiwisaver and the rest in normal super fund or chuck it all in one.

Allowances anywhere between $5 - $10000yr depending on base. Some bases get heaps of overnights whilst others hardly get any.

My roster sees me doing 100-120hrs duty/month and 50-60hrs flying. 10days RDO per month and 2 of those being a weekend. Some rosters have no standbys whilst others have heaps just depends.

Why pilots on this forum are losing sleep about the terms and conditions being offered by this mob (Jet*) I don't know :ugh:

Don't work for them - market forces will then drive up the T&C's! And at the same time lets not knock those that do accept the positions - with unemployment on the rise, airlines falling over in what seems like every second day, people have to keep food on the table and they are paying more than the dole!

A good fight - now there's a spirit of collaboration!! That always works :sad:

NZALPA are currently reacting to Jetconnect's closure of the Christchurch base, and the transfer of flying to Jetstar. The Employment Act regarding employee protection in the event of restructuring/transfer of business is clear - I am surprised that ALPA have left the challenge to the 9th hour. The ramifications could be quite interesting indeed...

Well said. If you dont like whats on offer, dont go, but with the way airlines are falling, and the fact that the jobs are certainly drying up at a great rate of knots, (especially in asia ), you cant blame the guys who do end up taking the positions.
Throw in the recent tax changes (in aust) that the labour gov have brought in, its very quickly becoming not worth trying to work overseas on short term, or commuting contracts, so I would imagine you will start to see more and more guys coming back and taking jobs like this one to be home.
After all, Pacblue have had a regular supply of kiwis coming back from the sandpit, and they are working for less than whats on offer with Jetstar.

How is JS going to start with Queenstown? If they are using Australians and contractors I thought you had to do actual flights in as well as sims for RNP into QN? Perhaps they will start off using the conventional approach. I certainly hope they don't scare themselves with what sounds like a low local pilot base.

How are Air National going with Ground handling, I would have thought it was a big ask for them to set up this op and run things on time with so little experience in this area. Domestic will put the pressure on.

Pigdriver I'm really unsure exactly what contract you're referring to when you keep bantering around about Jetstar pays more than Pacific Blue or any other NZ airline? I'm afraid you're very illinformed.

You may be right with Capt's, but I guess thats why the Capt salary has slowly been creeping up to meet "MARKET RATES" Jetstar cant get Capt's! but they can get FO's eager for the first shot at the jets. 50% of Capt salary!!!

PACIFIC BLUE FIRST OFFICER base $91,500 plus duty time allowance of $4.20 for every hour at work. 180 seat airliner

JETCONNECT FIRST OFFICER base $89,000 plus $4.35 DTA and $100hr incentive over 65hrs. . 142 seat airliner

JETSTAR FIRST OFFICER base $65,000 plus what? 180 seat airliner.

Jetstar require $181 for a Pshyc assessment. Pay to do a sim assessment, pay for your medical, pay for your Jepps.

So please explain to me how Jetstar pay more and have better T&C's than Pac Blue or any other operator in NZ.

Just remember, people can go on about Pac Blue and Jetconnect initially having crappy conditions. Jetconnect was formed out of failed NZ airline and eventually taken over by Qantas. Pacific Blue was created for Pacific flights only and during a time when T&C's were already not very good in Virgin.

Jetstar is an established profitable QANTAS group airline with a current pilot CEA who is taking over an already established QANTAS group airline with a current CEA at T&C's far below the current NZ industry T&C's of any other NZ airline or that of the current T&C's for Jetstar Australia.

You can argue this point until the cows (or pigs ) come home but at the end of the day, you have no arguement. Well you have a very weak arguement. Plain and simple, exploiting workers in it's finest form.

Care to ellaborate Pigdriver?

Fruet nich, I know as a fact, J* are now paying more than pacblue. The first few guys who have all gone through the training are all ex pacblue, and I can tell you right now, they are on a better deal with jetstar!! As far as f/o's go, I dont know anything about their deal, other than after chating to a checky the otherday, most are coming from regionals and hence all need to be rated, thus they require short term temp crew to get it going.
By the way,I believe they have got the required capt numbers,so before you go shouting off at people, get your facts right.

Pigdriver,
You state "get your facts right" to others, when they are quoting known numbers.
All you have said is hearsay and innuendo. I think you need to back yourself and come with facts before YOU go shouting off at people.

I am just stating a known fact, that the first few capts going through are ex pacblue. As fruet mich said, "you might be right re capts". Well I am. As I have said, I dont really know much about ,nor do I care about the f/o situation, hence I have never quoted amounts, as I dont know or care.

Hey Pigdriver
What regionals are these FOs coming from?

When PB and JC were recruiting the crew rooms were abuzz with people talking about their interviews and getting the nod. I have not heard of one person being interviewed let alone going to J*.

I would assume that J* would get their FOs from places like Air National and Airwork.

To be honest bongo driver, I didn't ask ,so dont know.Sorry cant help.

It'll be interesting to see how these temp crews from overseas will get by the NZ government and obtain work visa's so that they can work for a NZ company when pilots are not listed as a labour shortage in NZ. I really think Qantas and it's Jetstar subsidery have gone like a bull at a gate without even looking into NZ employment law. Oh dear.

Ahhh the irony, Poor old Jetstars masterplan is turning to shyte. Whats Brucie gonna do now? Classic watching this all unfold!

Piggy, thats exactly what I've been raving on about throughout all these Jetstar NZ threads. Capt's salaries have risen due to lack of interest. It still a long way off what the "industry standard" is. And yes so is Pac Blue and Jetconnect. We don't need these going any lower.

If FO's had held out, they to would have been well situated for better conditions. Jetstar have built a business case to operate in NZ on the Jetstar Australia model with their assossiated costs. If they came into the market offering fair T&C's as what are paid to Jetstar Aus employees, they wouldn't have this situation and it all wouldn't be crumbling around their ears. As I 've said, offering low terms and conditions have adverse affects! That is the same in any industry, not just aviation.

To the guys and gals out there that have said thanks but no thanks, hats off to you all.

Fruet Mich, Same story with the Engineers that keep the planes flying, please remember!!

They tried to cut the wages with AKL and had no sucess so have gone to Air Nz now to do the work and will pay through the nose!!!

Did it with CHC engineers as well and the base did not get fully staffed for agers.

Just pay the $ and things will work out right from go, its quite simple.

It seems that Jetstar are getting some FO's form Eagle and Air Nelson. I personally know 2 of the people.

European Summer !!
 

Hi Guys and Gals (moaners and groaners)

Just to let you all know its 30deg here in N Europe today. BBQ with some crew mates (and maties) this arvo - ladies you dont need to bring a plate- just a smile and your pleasant company XX. Guys- you know what to do - BBQ ready, salad, pavlova (Yes I made it and they love it with fresh strawberries and CREAM). Chilled white wine - too many to choose from - that lovely one we had from the Mosel valley (thats in Germany just down the road) was well recieved by the ladies last week. Beer - well guys there are 438 beers in this country so dont take too long too choose. We will leave the german beers for next week!:E

Guess what - there is NO BITCHING here - thats why I fly half way around the world to work.

:ok::ok:

Bongo bus driver

thanks for the reply :ok:

PegasusFury99

It's great to hear things are rosy where you are especially if you like strawberries and cream with your beer.

Have to wonder why you have to keep telling us exactly how good it its.

Reminds me a of a fairy tale about a poor soul, who, once they had made the decision to do something found out that it wan't all beer and skittles, but to not look stupid they kept telling their friends and themselves how good things were.

Thats nice pegasus, I'm all warm inside after you wee rendition of the sound of music. Still, it makes you wonder why expats are coming home in droves? Is the beer warm fella?

Each to their own I guess, I myself, would much rather be at home with friends and family TRYING to earn a fair wage for my profession.

I guess we'll keep bitching over here and you can hold up our end of the bar for us in Europe with all the ladies on your arm. Ya lucky guy! :rolleyes:

Hey superdooper, I think most of us pilots with any backnone in this industry would remember you guys and back you wholeheartedly! The only guys that seem to do ok in this industry are the CEO's and their puppet managers that receive huge bonuses for screwing over the workers below them.

pegasus - I don't quite know what the point of your post was but this is a thread concerning industrial issues and the rapid erosion of terms and conditions in NZ. Inevitably this is not going to be all 'sweetness and light' so if it is too much for you then no one is forcing you to read it.

Actually the deal at Jetstar is not all that bad, I interviewed last year at no cost to myself. I am going to join Jetstar NZ in a couple of months after 10 years in the UK. I already have an A320 typerating so will not be bonded, I get a $15,000 signing on bonus and bringing a little bit of cash back. Good promotion prospects if the expansion continues on especially with 4,000 hours airbus time and I get to live back in NZ. Things are looking pretty rosey from my point of view, after having done the turboprop / longhaul / shorthaul thing I just want to live in NZ. Jetstar will always attract people like me I suspect. If you don't want to work for them then don't apply. Simple!

Glad to see your so happy AH

So we wont see you moaning when your working 4days a week doing only 75hrs no overtime.

Or the transfer you to an Australian base paying you NZD, which is just the reverse of whats happening with the Jetstar aus guys in CHC at the moment.

Dont think it wont happen, here is a copy of the Easyjet advert for contract guys. Notice that they can second them to an Aussie base.


If you are interested in this secondment then please apply as soon as possible to An

Uh err he was pointing out the alternative to staying dunnunder and having to smoke jetstar for a living.

Well that may have been his intent, but rather than crapping on about a bbq that no one here is the slightest bit interested in and quite frankly could have been anywhere, did he not elaborate on some useful information, such as terms and conditions, as well as required experience by whoever his employer is? In reality, I don't think there is much hiring going on in Europe at the moment so smokin jetstar is all that is around now.

who cares -

Well may Jetstar retain an option of basing these crews in Australia, because they may need them there sooner rather than later if the rumours of 6 or so resignations in Sydney prove to be true.:E

Who Cares, what you seem to be missing is that the money aspect to me is of little importance, I would be more disappointed to be working 85 hours plus each month. 4 days a week sounds pretty good to me. If I was concerned about building hours and raking in the pay then I would stay exactly where I am. As for covering flying out of other bases, I will take that as it comes. From my point of view, CHC is a nice airport to operate from and the A320 is a lovely aircraft to fly on short haul ops, some of the approaches will be interesting and I can get back into watching proper ruggar!!

New Hirings
 

Winter 08/09 - 16 ab-initio F/Os ie 300hrs TT
Acft - 2 new B737
Spring 09 - 16 Contract Pilots
Still to come - ANOTHER acft
- and its CREW

T&C - excellent (thats why I am here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
WHO - A great company !:ok:

Pegasus, you still don't seem to get it. Im sure we all feel warm and fluffy inside about how good you have it. We are all aware that there are better paying jobs with easier progression in other parts of the world. Many of us have given it a go. This thread is about the conditions available at home and hopefully about improving them for those of us that choose the benefits of our home country over the money abroad. We like it here, thats why we stay!

Pegasus
Awesome I am glad for you. But what we are trying to do down here is bring T&Cs up to the standard you are currently receiving. Jetstar seeks to lower these and if they become competative then to maximise their profits Air NZ and PB will have to follow by lowering their T&Cs. Already Air NZ have annouced a review of the regional network headed up by a manager with a history in beating down the T&Cs of his staff.

AH
Awesome for you to. Welcome back. Just remember if you do get a Christchurch base it is at the demise of Jet Connect pilots and Jetstar pilots on the Aussie contract who either cannot afford to or have elected not to take a big pay cut to work for J* NZ. These pilots will have no choice but to seek employment overseas.

We call this the brain drain and it is a serious issue amongst all industries. If we let it continue then NZ will be full of students, low income earners and retirees. The rest of us will be at Pegasus's BBQ drinking his beer, chatting up his women and bragging about how go it is not to be home.

Pegasus - delighted things are going so well for you over there.

Feel free to stay as long as you like.

Pegasus, what are you smoking? I want some!

AH, well what can one say. I don't think you and your attitude will receive a warm welcome. Still, you have the right to do it, clearly no concept of teamwork though.

Jetstar working conditions
 

Check out Jetstar working Conditions thread #11.

Looks like HK is better than Europe.
Best you all enjoy working with those 'Downunder Managers!'

There is a simple solution - DONT WORK for the Wan%ers.
If there are no indians - there can NOT be a chief.
Did you not learn anything from history at school - eg. the great strikes etc.

Yes, I would like to work in my HOME country, but instead of working in an environment that is infested with idiots/fools/bitter twisted losers/backstabbing 'colleagues'/small minded blind 'gods' - I prefer to work the contract circuit where NONE of this exists.

Enjoy the sunrise:ok:

Maybe since your a contractor Pegasus, all of what you have mentioned is happening behind your back.

The only certainty with the likes of Pegasusfury99 is that he will get sick of his job wherever that may be. At the moment he's just a typical loud mouth enjoying what he has at this time........those of us that have been in aviation long enough know how circumstances change...and when they do for him, he will all of a sudden go quiet.....