QANTAS - Working on the A380
 

I am interested in any of our colleagues who are already working on the A380. Can you please tell us what life is like:

1. Is there any truth to the rumours that meal service times are taking forever???? Perhaps the company needs to revise service timings/service flows?

2. Have the flights been full/half capacity?

3. Do you find that the working environment on the A380 is better than the B747 in terms of galley, crew rest, seating config etc.

An Early Suggestion
 

It was suggested to management, even before the A380 arrived,that the successful operation of all cabins required 2 CSSs.
Ahh but they know better..they are management.
Keep writing reports and get the FAAA in on the act.It will also be good for promotional opportunities

Thanks ABP for the info.....very good to know this stuff so I can squash any bad mouthing that is currently going on in the galleys of non-A380 aircraft. A lot of people think that the A380 crew are taking hours to complete the service...I had no idea that this was because of all the things that you mentioned. Thanks for info....I will let others know about the truth re: the fact that it is still work in progress.

Can I ask....why are crew not allowed to use the front stairs? It seems very bizzare forcing crew to walk all the way to the back and then up around again. Is it because P/C is at the front on the main deck and that the company do not want crew to be using that as a traffic lane? I can understand pax not being allowed to use front stairs....but crew?

Wow! Hosting someone for dinner...that's awesome....love the innovation. I suppose if one is paying so much money to fly P/C then by all means they can have whoever they want.

The aircraft must be so quiet inside to have P/C pax complain about crew walking upstairs. Can crew use the stairs in an emergency, say if they needed to bolt upstairs to get something in an emergency or see someone? Or are the stairs TOTALLY forbidden?

Screw forbidden! If it's an emergency then who cares if you have to wake up the pax... even if they are P class... 'safety above service, always' remember! :E

Great info on the A380, I had been wondering about some of the exact issues you've brought up. Does it seem a fairly two-way process at the moment, I mean, is the company receptive of your suggestions as operating crew for improvements? And I guess it's not really like A380-operating airlines can workshop on it, they've all got such different layouts and approaches to it...

Slighty OT... did they have a full crew comp onboard for Nancy's flyover yesterday, or was it flight crew & gingerbeers only?

Hardly an innovation! Been able to do that in BA in First Class for about 10 years:rolleyes:

Hate to show my age, but it is 15+ years :eek:

Keel Beam

You are probably right - it was when the flat beds were introduced into first that the buddy seat started. Was it back in 1994? Time flies .....:\

ABP
Quote - "the aim is to get the possible results for our passengers"

How refreshing to hear such a great and positive attitude from CC to pax. Far better than the alternative cynical attitude.

You will go far in your career but more importantly enjoy going to work each (most) days. Don't become cynical like some others - it will destroy said enjoyment. Most crew and most pax are decent people who if treated as such will respond.

Thanks for that ABP, glad to hear things are going relatively well. It's always tough getting a new type into service, even with people who've been flying for years! Happy to hear the pax like it too.... you know the usual media beatups you get.

Hope to get a look around one of the A380s soon....!

What's your favourite feature so far? And least favourite??? Just curious!

With regards to the Yclass self service snack bar in the rear of M deck, do you find that people congregate or just come and go? Oh how I love the picture of the "toddler" like gates at the top of the rear stairs leading to U deck at end of W. Hilarious!

I have a quick question, i was admittedly very sad and had a quick look on seat guru to see how the different airlines had config their Whale....erm A380...and noticed that Qantas are the only airline that have a seat missing in the main deck Y section row 69D/70D.

Can i ask why? Is it a hatch from the crew rest? Or is there just one really lucky person who wins this extra leg room seat before takeoff??

Also how are the pax in the Premium Economy Cabin finding things? Whats the privacy screen for those next to the toilets in 38/39 DEF working?

Just thought i'd ask......

Qf Crew Config
 

How many CC do QF have in each class on the A380?

Does this compare with the other 380 flyers ie EK and SQ

I believe it's...
 

1 CSM
1 CSS
3 First
8 Business
2 Prem Y
7 Economy

I also believe Qantas has more cabin crew than EK and SQ, with less seats overall.

Which crew seats are designated for the CSM/CSS?

So, let's look at how efficient it is when it come to utilising cabin crew.

Qantas A380
450 passengers
22 cabin crew

Qantas 747-400, 2 class 56 J/C , 356 Y/C
Total 412 passengers
14 cabin crew

so for an extra capacity of 38 passengers you get 8 extra crew.

Just wondering, what exactly do all these extra crew do??

Give us extra crew on the 747-400 instead of taking one away and an IFE system that actually works and we could easily give the A380 a run for it's money as the new Queen of the skies.

Work 30 % more hours for 30% less pay and they probably will Shazz-zaam

VA has 13 for 361= I FA per 27 PAX
QF 747 1FA per 29 PAX

Comparing total passengers and total crew for different aircraft doesn't work when you have different numbers of classes and different numbers in each class.

The best comparison that highlights the difference is looking at J class on an A380 and a 744P.
A380 8 crew for 72 J class 1:9
744P 6 crew for 66 J class 1:11

As I said in a different thread, they could easily lose a crew member in J on the A380, but unfortunately the crew are not experienced enough to get the job done in reasonable time with 8, and as PattyStacker said, the crew are cheaper on the A380 so it is not as big a saving to remove someone.

PattyStacker,I know what you are saying but the horse has long bolted and it's far too late to close the barn door now.So you might as well forget about it.

This depends on what sort of fighting gear the crew have to work with but if the QF crew have similar equipment and there are about the same number of crew then QF will have no excuses in competing with SIA and EK on a service level.

Having inexperienced crew is not a problem because it depends on how many you have at the one time.

No assist crew from economy either on the 744, the 6 includes the CSM who may or may not even be there if IFE or other issues arise.

The problems with service on the A380 are completely down to the inexperience of the crew involved. Fact.

Contrast the actions of management at Singapore Airlines with Qantas and you'll quickly realise why QF have problems.

SQ mandate that the crew on their flagship A380 have a minimum of 5 years experience [in the category they operate in]

Not meaning any disrespect to those working on it but the truth of the matter is that QF only had one requirement.

Cheap.

I have no idea if that 5 years minimum is correct ditch handle, but most of their A380 crew are as cheap as QCCA, so they have the luxury of being able to choose experienced and cheap.

Did a London trip not so long ago with a FA that has a family member who is cabin crew for SQ.

They caught up for dinner in Singapore and this info came from the horses mouth.

Qantas had the opportunity to operate the A380 with experienced crew or at least a meaningful foundation of career FAs who could pass on experience, skills and culture to the new hires.

Management already had QCCA and yet, in typical QF fashion they were greedy and had to have everything.

I sleep well at night knowing that this decision is biting them on the arse.

Of course QCCA and the terms and conditions QF offered to existing QAL crew going to the A380 were negotiated long before there were signs of an economic down turn.

Good loads and high satisfaction eh?? Really?

I guess it must all be good then and the comments made to me by passengers who've flown on it must all be fabrications.......

A_B_P,Let's be realistic here.The loads on the A380 have nothing to do with the crew as they are all about everyone wanting to fly on the latest,biggest & shiniest aircraft.

With all the extra crew you would want and expect to see good feedback but that is not always the case and the excessive meal service times have something to do with that.

I wonder if SIA and EK are having the same problems?

By the way the company has always used the cheapest option with crew and that ha happened years before this economic downturn.Even if this latest mess not happened the company would still use the cheapest crew no matter how little experience they had.

If they can get even cheaper crew or anything else they will again at some point in the future regardless of the economic situation.

it's good to see your enthusiasm and optimism but when you've been flying with us for 20 or more years I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say.

As a matter of interest had a good chat to some of the SQ FAs on a A380 trip to LHR lastyear. At SQ all the crew that fly on the A380 and the A340-500 trips are 'selected' to do it and have no choice in bidding. Once they get put on either thats all they do. They were enjoying the A380 but were not loving the work - back then it was only SYD,NRT and LHR. I thought the service was excellent but in the galley the FA said that they were all still feeling their way with the service etc - they were all very happy when I pointed out from a pax point of view you certainly couldn't tell.

I was explaining to her how QF worked with different wages/bases etc and most of them were not aware of it and were quite suprised. SQ is all SIN based, all on same wages - and contrary to some rumours did not share hotel rooms. They are on about $45k SIN bucks - not huge but certainly not 'slave' wages that some seem to think they are on, especially these days getting to be fairly similar to QCCA etc. Sure they burn through them and they are mostly all young - but tell me thats not the intention of australian carriers now with the wages and conditions on offer here too ! Difference seems to be that whilst they are there they have the meet the high standard or they are gone.

One thing that SQ beats QF on is 'consistancy' to FA conduct, whilst you can get a fantastic flight on QF you can get some crap ones as well - yet to have anything on SQ that wasn't short of excellent. The FAs aren't gushy or all over you, but deliver the services quickly effeciently and with no fuss.

Puff
 

Your point is......?
This word "consistency" gets bandied around a lot but what does it mean?
Is it robotic service?Is it clones all looking the same,all smiling the same?
All providing the same food?.
When travelling I dont care about much except on time departure,cabin temperature,when the lights are switched off and whether or not the passenger sitting next to me is a blabbermouth or smells.The rest I can put up with.Consistency is portable....I bring it with me
The crew dont design the aircraft or the IFE or the seats.They are not responsible for a late departure...so why complain to them?
Its transport..pure and simple...not a 5 star restaurant or hotel.
Its cheaper to fly now than it has ever been.
I dont want much and dont expect much so I am never disappointed.
The best aircraft to fly for me if I do have a choice is the Boeing 777.
The A380 is...well...a flying barn...too big and soul less

Thanks A380-800 driver....

So basically EK has 26 Cabin Crew compared to 22 for QF...I'm sure the shower attendants do help out in some other way and not just stand around waiting to clean the showers...

Sorry Lobe but the shower attendants only do that. They stand at the top of the front stairs the whole time (or sit on them), can't see anything except the steep stairs and are bored as bat5hit for much of a long hop. Often only one will be on deck, the other having a kip.

They are in a different uniform to the F/As and do not do any F/A duties. They don't even re-stock the drinks in the P/C 'social area' at the top of the stairs. They just make sure the shower/loo rooms are tickety-boo after every visit by a punter. So the bog-rolls are always perfect, the showers dried, the amenities re-stocked and presented, etc. after every punter visit or turbulence event.

A380 Driver
 

Aren't all the EK 380s grounded?
Something to do with a fuel system design problem?
You are sure to correct me if I'm wrong

You are wrong.

Thanks for that Taildragger...
Can you imagine QF putting 2 people on board with nothing to do except that....

If it was QF they would have a beeper and be doing a bar service and a hot chocolate service ..with a busy sign on the showers until they could get back...

By the way do EK cabin crew share rooms?

Puff,

Surely you are not serious, there is an old joke about Qantas or BA attendants, at least you get more 'Boilers' in the cabin and that sums it up. If you are comparing QF service to SQ you are sadly mistaken, there is no comparison, SQ economy is better than QF business class!

QF have no idea about service, they used when they were a real airline but not now they are crap on par with the likes of Ryan Air etc.

argus - simply bringing up some points re the A380 with someone other than QF.

And you ask about consistancy - consistancy was one word that was bought up about why McDonalds is so successful - sure it's crap food but you know what your going to get in Bondi or Paris. Thats exactly why SQ is successful, not because it's like McDonalds, but they always offer the same 'standard'. QF is like a corner fish shop - could be an excellent experience or you could end up with food poisioning!

I agree - flying is cheap and to be honest I don't care that much about who or where I travel with - as long as it gets me where it says on the ticket - BUT these days the passengers(us) have a BIG choice of airlines and service standards - if 2 airlines have the same airfare who are you going to go with - the one with the better reputation!

As for the other - A380 IMHO pisses over the 777 to ride on - to me there is nothing that amazing about the 777 over a 767 or a 747. A380 is just so much quieter it's out of this world compared to anything made by Boeing.

Orangputi - I guess I was trying not to trash QF too badly because I know some FAs at QF that are some of the better ones!

That is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever seen posted.
Obviously you have a kebaya fetish.
(not that there is anything wrong with that):ok:

I was lucky enough to travel with 150 others (mostly in J and W class) SYD AKL SYD on Oscar Quebec Alpha (Miss Nancy) on QFs first ever International passenger flight. No - it was NOT the MEL LAX flight - it was QF6601 on 09OCT!

The flight and crew were remarkable, but we were the test bed.

All was great on the outbound, but I was in 25K at the rear of the upper deck on the return and premium Y just behind me were through a full meal service before they got back to where I was.

That in itself was not a problem, but the temperature of the meal was. It was nice, and edible but they had a load of us freeloaders onboard for just that reason - to look for constructive criticism. We would have been the least critical load they had ever flown, but we were there to help them and tried to. It all comes down to our premium passengers experience ande they were more than receptive.

Overall, the crew right to the tech guys including the skipper who came back to chat and the cabin crew who were so proud of their aeroplane they could burst were a leap back to the introduction of the 727 and the DC9. Totally refreshing.

The aeroplane is wonderful-so quiet, and unsticks like it is no effort at all. I love the 744, DC10 and 767 but I brought my 2nd A380 QF model home and she sits in front of the wine rack next to my 300ZX model. They have a lot in common.

Go you good A380 crew guys and girls. You are the A team. They love their big ladies and it shows. There is hope for the industry.

If you are travelling J class and want to know where to be allocated, call the Loco Bloko. If you didn't book through me I might even check what is left in the better parts of the cabin for you - after trying to pirate your corporate business!!:E:E

If you booked through Blight Centre, the hard thing will be getting the spotty Uni Student to figure out how to get into the seat plan.:= Serves you right!

Best all

EWL

No Disrespect but this is a pilots forum not a cabin crew forum,

OK no worries lets remember SQ is the first airline to have major fatalities on a 744 ever compared to any other airline. EVER!!!(Due to crew error) Its all about perspective! hehe

Angle, you are a weirdo !

As for those who are 'proud' to work on the A380 --> are you proud to be on such crap conditions? I flew with a QCCA yesterday who was quite up front in telling me that "we will out number you in the next EBA, you will lose it all"
I suggested that the QCCA should try and better their conditions in the next EBA, rather than try and take things off others.I just got a nasty glare in response.
Management have got what they wanted --> they got cheap labour,and now there is no service,the same QCCA told me "I dont get paid enough to do water runs".
Thanks to our management for hiring such a disengaged,f*cked up new workforce.I personally cant wait till they all go to the A380.I would happily go back to doing nothing but Jobergs,if it means not flying with QCCA trash again.

Originally posted by Angle of attackThe old broken record syndrome again.
No disrespect Angle of Attack but you seem to have problems with your eyesight,I hope you're not really a pilot.
The flight deck is but one part of aviation not the be all and end all.
If you don't want to read any threads about cabin crew then don't open them.There are many threads pertaining to pilots to keep you busy.