QF EBA Voted Down
 

Just Heard that the LH EBA was vote down by 76% Against, cant believe that there are still 24% that voted for it.

Good job boys

I think the sky is about to fall in. Duck!


Oh wait a minute....maybe not

Forgot to add: with 76% No - is it
a) a slap in the face to the company
b) a slap in the face to AIPA and those who chose not to ask the members what they wanted (some AIPA reps did not agree with whole EBA process)
c) both a and b
d) something else.....(ie a and b above is to harsh)

The voting for Long Haul EBA 8 has concluded and AIPA has been advised that 1661 long haul voters have returned the following result:

Yes: 398
No: 1263

Personally I find the outcome to be a surprising result and members are hereby informed that an Extraordinary Committee of Management (COM) meeting has been called for Friday, 26 September. The Extraordinary COM meeting will authorise a membership survey to determine, amongst other things, the membership resolve behind the vote and soon thereafter a Special General Meeting (SGM) will be held to help determine the best way forward.

On behalf of the membership, I wish to extend my heartfelt thanks to the Long Haul EBA 8 Negotiating Team for the many, many hours of tireless effort put in on behalf of all members.

Rest assured AIPA members will be kept informed about all consultative arrangements put in place and notified well in advance of when the SGM will be held. In the meantime, please continue to operate in the professional manner Qantas flight crew are globally renowned for.

With Regards,

xxxx

Now, if they only had 866 pilots on AWA's - re-vote - bingo!

So it should only be a matter of minutes before di*kson/joyce pumps up the media campaign crying poor that AIPA have renigged on their "agreement" with the company. "Doom, gloom, oil prices, competiton, union bullies, pilots aren't thinking of our customers, end of the world etc". I can here it already.

Correction: Share Holders.:ugh:

So, let the games begin! :D:D:D

Admittedly, I'm very surprised at the vote.

I honestly didn't believe we mainline pilots had enough guts to reject a crap EBA. I thought a slim majority would go all wobbly at the knees with the first hint of "If you reject this you'll be struck dead by lightning and burn in hell forever.......etc, etc" coming from QCA and vote in favour.

I stand corrected. Very corrected. (I voted "No", BTW).

Whats the bet the word will come down from the Big Office to have this EBA finalised prior to November.
Why you might ask?
The last thing the departing Qantas executives would want is the share price to dip below $3.64 prior to the maturing of their executive bonus traunch.:}

Here we go again, a totally unrelated thread and some d!ckheads manage to turn out anti Jetstar pilot crap.

With comments like those from Mohikan and Marvel is there any wonder that most JQ pilots are somewhat 'apprehensive' about their Mainline 'brothers'.

Apprehensive about their mainline brothers???????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

OMG!! Have you been on another planet?

May I remind JJW that the JQ pilots are the tools of choice for QF Group management to shaft, screw and undermine the mainline pilots.

Who is apprehensive about who?

Well LAMEs can huff a temporary sigh of relief (our buggery campaign still continues). Some of the pressure can now be directed at you, boys and girls.

Anyhow the QF IR shafting campaign should be alot quicker and cheaper, just substitute 'Pilot' for 'LAME' on ALL documentation.

The results of the initial LAME vote surprised me but should we really be surprised that employees collectively feel like this when our Management have tried their darnest to alient every one of us?

Keep up the good fight.

I would like to commend the 74% of people who voted NO! I reckon I know who the 26% were, well not personally but I know the sterotype....;)

Although it is really none of my business, can I just say one thing, please don't feather your own retirement nest at the expense of new hirees!

Cheers, HH.:ok:

The people who I spoke to and said they were voting yes, were incredibly pro company - (as opposed to an even balance) - generally appeared to think that voting yes was the best way of maximising their own personal financial gain irrespective of the cost - to others - and I think some hadn't thought about the lifestyle cost to themselves. As others have alluded to - the yes voters I met appear to be all of a similar character/mindset.

A very big (b)

Yes I totally agree with (b).

The company I think will just shrug their shoulders and get on with renegotiating something which fits into their agenda as best as possible.

As for the AIPA leadership: Well, it appears that the position of some of them must surely be untenable now. They were elected on a "promise" and they failed to deliver anything. Then after spruiking how good "their" EBA was, they were bitch-slapped all the way into next week.

Looks like elements of a political campaign were used during this EBA vote to discredit the present hierarchy.
I wonder what will result when the retreads from the Holt era take over?:}

Max Autobrakes,
Get a life son......Holt is long gone.....as has his mate Manning. The present Hierarchy in AIPA forgot to talk to the people who pay there dues....It's not the end of the world..cheer up.:)

Mohikan

I don't know what Rick Heaton has to do with anything as the JPA/G/C has had two glorious leaders since Rick had anything to do with it.
Interestingly 24% of 2500 ? Qantas pilots adds up to more than 100% of Jetstar pilots.:eek:

Well Bus,
Don't let me see you carry on and go looking for a shoulder to cry upon like a little girl when AIPA reinvents itself under "the fence sitter" and nothing of an industrial nature gets done.
There will be lots of feel good rhetoric but little else from a stategic point of view, just like the Holt era.:bored:

mppgf

You can't be serious "two glorious leaders"

Apparently some overseas pilots of Australian origin have spoken about contracts to fly the A380 for QF , arriving fully rated and ready to fly approximately 10 A380s that will look like QF aircraft but be wet leased by QF from a QF subsiiary yet to be named, Similar to Singapore Mauritius.
Expect a pay cut on your next EBA..............

Is that why JetConnect has been kept on lifesupport?:bored:

Think about the logic of that statement, why would anyone vote for a paycut, when current rates of pay continue in perpetuity? Scope to fly the A380 perhaps? Only a small percentatage of QF pilot will fly it at any one time, no votes there. Scope on the B787? I don't see the QF ever agreeing to that.
Until the pilots are offered a reason to vote yes, business as usual.

Under work choices, an EBA could be unilaterally terminated by the employer (resulting in the minimum pay rates), but things are changing on that front in Canberra.

Actually, I pay almost no attention to hearsay other than to be mildly amused by most of it, especially when it comes from pilots - one of the most unreliable sources of information on the planet IMHO.

I didn't like the Holt-era either, and voted the "present heirarchy" in based on what they said and implied they were going to do.

My voting intentions in any election are not politically-aligned. They mostly depend on evidence: evidence of results achieved, progress being made, pursuit of constructive policies, making tangible gains, etc. Also those intentions can be affected by the way incumbent leaders or leadership groups present themselves. It didn't bode well for the Holt-era, and none of this bodes well for my next vote on the "present heirarchy" either.

mppgf said:
This was the Longhaul EBA, Shorthaul pilots were not elligible to vote.

There are appoximately 1800 Longhaul pilots.

1662 voted. One vote was invalid.

398 pilots voted YES. :suspect:

1263 pilots voted NO and good on 'em! :D

Rabbitwear ....

The pilots you talk of ( ref the A380) will be welcomed with open arms in Qf .... within the normal seniority system ....

N

careful, you'll have some of the no voters ringing head office and offering to sign awa's mirroring the voted down eba!!

(you all know who you are,:mad: wits)

Fair call Dutch,
I'm actually in agreement with most of what you write.

I've heard that according to the usual mouthpieces on Qrewroom the present incumbents are totally on the nose and they haven't achieved anything.
Well do as I did, find out for yourself and ring Woodeye up and ask him what he's done for Qantas pilots.
Make sure you've got a bit of time to spare because it will be a real eye opener.
I suppose if we were to compare QANTAS IR policy to a large flowing river ,if you choose to go with the flow, so to speak, life can appear quite cosy, until you round that last bend and you are confronted with a huge waterfall. To late to do anything because you didn't notice the river has picked up speed and no matter how hard you try to swim against the current it's just flowing too fast.
On the other hand whilst the river is still flowing at a moderate speed you choose to do the hard yards and swim against the industrial current. Sure progress won't appear as fast as going with the company endorsed flow, but guess what ,at least you won't be barreling over that waterfall and you might just find those greener pastures up river.

I suppose it is also like that Japanese proverb, "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down ".
The usual Qrewroom crowd carry on as though this is a crime. How dare the Union take on the company! We need to engage in more dialogue!
Talk all you like guys for unless what you want is what the Company deems, you can talk for a month of Sundays and all you will end up with is laryngitis.
I suppose that's why AIPA has taken on QANTAS with numberous court actions as a means of gaining that all important industrial leverage which is needed to swim against the Company endorsed current.

Max,

As Kearnsy would say, "You are off with the pixies".

It will be interesting to see if AJ will support a recruitment drive for "Temp Pilots" during your campaign now that GD has almost finished, and how our new board will respond to this commonly used QF trick.

Best of luck guys, you have our full support.

Is he ,What The?
Max actually makes sense to a lot of us mere mortals .
By the way wasn't Kearnsy the trail blazer of the turncoat pack?
Union President one day, management the next!
No man can serve two masters.:ok:

Kearnsey = WALLFLOWER:}

Toolish,
Google it, Glorious Leader that is.

Bug Smasher Smasher,
That is still a higher number than voted yes for the Jetstar eba.:E

ummm... can anyone please post the guts of the EBA here?
ie: %age increase,terms that changed etc.

thanks

Apache.....if your an AIPA member it is all available on the website.

(hint hint)

How long until the next version of EBA 8 comes out to vote on?

Membership to be surveyed.....say about a month.

Negotiators to go back to the company and put the revised demands forward....another month or so.

Costings, etc, posturing, etc, argey bargey....another month or so.

Personally I'd be astounded if we were to vote on a revised offer any time prior to the week or so before Christmas. More than likely we're looking at the new year. That's two years after EBA7 expired.

EBA7++ isn't a solution either. Even with a '5' as the '+' it's not a good solution. All it would do is ensure that we continue to remain industrially irrelevant in the long term plans for the QF group.

Why?

Has this been publically stated by anyone with any real say in the business?

Not just a desperate President trying to sell a rubbish EBA which he now tries to distance himself from and some I.R. people trying to get pilots cheap.

Read the VA thread if you want to see the view of other "professionals" towards pilots. The reality is most are envious of the pilots' position in the company and the fact that they can collectively bargain.

Keg, I implore you, don't fall for the bull**** line that somehow you can overnight become irrelevant. Even if there is massive change there are still aeroplanes to be flown and pilots needed to fly them. Throwing away conditions that have been NEGOTIATED and PAID for over the years on the "promise" of a better future is akin to industrial suicide whilst the Oldmeadows of the world are paid $3m to screw every last cent out of the workers.

The aeroplanes will go where the money is made. The engineers showed that it is commercial lunacy to piss off the people who sign as it would be commercial lunacy to piss off the people who accept and fly.