If you think the E-jets are plagued with technical problems, you might wonder how people would describe the 737-400s used on Qantas services within NZ, which people do not use if they need to get somewhere on time.

11 flights got canned? Im a bit confused. DJ have 3x170 based in Syd and on alternate days a 190, 1x190 in Mel and the 2xBne.

How can 11 of the 170 services be cancelled with 1 of 3 a/c going tech?

May need to check on your stats!

And I did check the stats as follows. DJ operates the E170s on these flights:

SYD-CBR: DJ906/910/920/924/930/934/938/942
CBR-SYD: DJ901/907/913/917/921/931/937/945
SYD-ABX: DJ1170/1176
ABX-SYD: DJ1171/1177
SYD-PQQ: DJ1183
PQQ-SYD: DJ1182
SYD-ROK: DJ461
ROK-SYD: DJ462
SYD-MKY: DJ453
MKY-SYD: DJ454
CBR-OOL: DJ769
OOL-SYD: DJ768

Total 28 flights on weekdays.

And I even went into the trouble of looking up all the dep/arr times on the DJ website to show you how these three frames rotate:

Plane A: DJ901-DJ906-DJ913-DJ461-DJ462-DJ1176-DJ1177-DJ938-DJ945 (9 sectors)

Plane B: DJ1170-DJ1171-DJ1183-DJ1182-DJ920-DJ921-DJ924-DJ931-DJ934-DJ769-DJ768 (11 sectors)

Plane C: DJ907-DJ910-DJ917-DJ453-DJ454-DJ930-DJ937-DJ942 (8 sectors)

The AOG A/C was in SYD, which was supposed to do the plane B line of flying, ie 11 sectors. Although I was told actual cancellations on the day were mostly SYD-CBR vv.

Maybe you need to check how much you know before questioning others.

All E70 services are backed up mostly with 73NG replacements. Albeit 2 services are always amalgamated for CBRSYD services as the sectors have to be seen as available to our guests. I and the flight ops manager made those descisions. SYDMKY & ROK services were cxl and sent via BNE.

Also the introduction of the EJET actually at present is a saving grace. There are several routes being ultra profitable including the use of PE seating aswell. Flying a full E90 to ROK, ADL actually is financially saving those routes and inturn placing 738's on the more need routes. Additionally some day MELSYD services are to be converted to E90 services as well this month.

If each 50 of the 737 were to complete another sector a day then this will eliminate 3 aircraft. Hence the removal of 4 or possibly more to international ops and returning leased ended planes.

Maybe no training Captains around?

DJ Toll To Cut Virgin Blue Stake Through Special Dividend
 

14/07/2008 08:53AM AEST
MELBOURNE (Dow Jones)--Toll Holdings Ltd. (TOL.AU), Australia's largest logistics provider, said Monday it will pay a special dividend of one share in its Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd. (VBA.AU) airline unit for each ordinary share held.

Toll, which holds a 63% stake in Virgin Blue, will distribute 648.1 million shares and continue to hold about 11 million shares in the Brisbane-based airline, it said in a statement.

A special share sale facility will be established to help the disposal of small holdings, Toll said.

After the special dividend, British businessman Richard Branson's Virgin Group (VGN.YY) will become the largest shareholder in the airline, holding 25.5%, Toll said.

There will be no change in Virgin Blue's management or strategy, the company said.


-By Andrew Harrison, Dow Jones Newswires; 61-3-9671-4323; [email protected]

TOLL ANNOUNCES PAYMENT OF AN IN SPECIE DIVIDEND TO TOLL SHAREHOLDERS, SATISFIED BY DISTRIBUTION OF VIRGIN BLUE SHARES
Virgin Blue is supportive of the announcement by Toll Holdings Ltd (Toll) that Toll intends to distribute 98.3% of its 62.7% stake in Virgin Blue to Toll shareholders by way of an in specie dividend.
Virgin Blue shareholders will benefit from the significantly increased liquidity in Virgin Blue shares, and in addition will have more certainty around its long-term ownership. Following Toll’s distribution, Virgin Blue should qualify for inclusion in the ASX 300.
Virgin Blue looks forward to a continuation of the strong relationship and support from the Toll Group built up over the last two years, together with the on-going freight arrangements in place between the two companies.
Chief Executive Officer, Brett Godfrey, said “we see Toll’s exit as an opportunity to introduce long term investors to the company. Despite the difficult trading environment that we are facing at the present, the longer term outlook for the Group is very strong, and we have a number of new products that will be launched in the coming months, including VAustralia.
With regard to the ongoing strategic review of the business, further initiatives will be announced in the near future concerning capacity management and new revenue initiatives.”
Co-founder of Virgin Blue, Sir Richard Branson, said, “Virgin Group has enjoyed working alongside Toll over the past 2 years. Virgin Group remains a long-term committed cornerstone shareholder in Virgin Blue and has a high degree of confidence in Virgin Blue’s business model and future.”
Toll has advised that its nominated Directors Messrs Little, Ludeke, McInerney and Mallon will resign from the Virgin Blue Board following completion of the in specie distribution. In addition, Mr Bob Watson has resigned as a Director. Current Chairman, Neil Chatfield will continue in the role until the Annual General Meeting.
The Virgin Blue Board will now form a committee to nominate additional independent Non-Executive Directors and a new VBA Holdings Ltd Chairman. The new appointments are expected to be finalised by the Annual General Meeting to be held in October.
Current directors Neil Chatfield and Paul Little have indicated that they have no present intention of disposing of the shares in Virgin Blue that they will receive upon distribution.
TRADING FOR THE YEAR ENDING 30 JUNE 2008 AND OUTLOOK
On 13 June 2008, Virgin Blue announced capacity reductions and a $50 million package of cost savings as part of the company's response to continuing record fuel prices. The company announced that these initiatives were the first outcomes of an ongoing review monitoring global jet fuel prices which now equate for 35% of the company's cost base.
The company can also confirm its guidance provided on 11 April 2008 that its underlying net profit after tax for the financial year ending 30 June 2008 is likely to be in the range of $132m-$137m, exclusive of approximately $40m of development costs associated with new initiatives being launched in 2008.
The Company’s balance sheet and cash reserves remain strong and based on current trading conditions the Board sees no requirement for additional equity raisings in the foreseeable future.

Toll to pull out of Virgin Blue
 

ABC news reporting Toll holdings are opting out of it's 60% ownership of Virgin Blue. Virgin shares to be distributed to Toll shareholders as a dividend. One Virgin share for each Toll share held.

Toll selling it's shares in VB
 

Interesting article in todays Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation.
- Aviation Newsletters, Aviation Publications, Aviation News - Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation - Virgin Blue freed to grow: Toll cuts loose - and not before time

"Whatever the short term impact on Virgin Blue’s shareprice, Toll Holdings’ highly unusual move today to deliver an “in specie” dividend of 98.3% of its share in the airline to its shareholders is great news for Australia’s second airline. Toll has been sitting on its majority 62.7% holding since it bought it two years ago. Toll announced publicly last year that it was not a long term holder and attempted to sell its holding, but was unable to find a buyer prepared to pay the price it wanted.

In practical terms this has been a savage disadvantage for an airline which is being intensely challenged by market conditions, at the same time as it is metamorphosing into a higher yield-chasing operator. To compete for Australia’s domestic corporate market, Virgin has deviated from the LCC model to acquire a second aircraft type, Embraer regional jets, and is now on the brink of commencing B777 service to the US. Freeing up its ownership registry is almost certain to attract a flurry of interest, despite the carrier’s recent share price performance.---------"

Oh I just like to rub it in.. :p

Betsy,
I wouldnt laugh too loudly at the misfortunes of others, the elimination of the Toll overhang could be a positive for VB. I always wonder about non pilots like yourself who hang around ad nauseum pretending to be something they're not.

VB up 4% today.:}

True I'm not a pilot, and I have never pretended to be one.

All I've posted on here are facts & figures, despite being on a 'rumours' website. It's better than reading some people's comments which are based on nothing but their emotions.

I can't help but think that mismanagement at the top has landed DJ into its current state. Remember BG was still talking it up a few weeks ago after QF announced grounding planes and cutting routes? And I quote:

"Our approach will be different to Qantas. Qantas is looking at cutting routes and cutting staff... our approach will be different." (source: SMH, Virgin Blue stay in business: Godfrey - Breaking News - Business - Breaking News)

Well a few days after that, DJ announced sending four 737s to NZ and cutting SYD-PPP/MEL-DRW. No one seemed to have picked up the fact that he ate his own words. It was sad that an airline CEO still refused to accept reality.

As for laughing at the misfortunes of others.. let me put it bluntly, how could I feel sorry for someone who doesn't want to work and ends up sleeping in the street?

This is good news for both Virgin and Toll.

Toll get rid of an asset that is volatile and cyclical in it's nature.... Toll's core business is more steady in its earnings.
For Virgin it means they are free to make their own decisions without Toll's imput. I would also expect there to be another airline out there that may be interestedin snapping up a few shares.

The shares are cheap, but DJ is in a good positon compared to alot of other airlines around the world... lots of cash in the bank - but IMHO in need of a more strategic partner/alliance (and an owner who is into the airline business)

The price may just be right for someone to jump in - Toll were greedy fools not to sell it last year when they had offers.

Looks as though the shareholders hold the balance of power now - who's in the running to be on the new board?:D

I believe Geoff Dixon might be looking for a retirement job.:}

So any idea on who might be interested in becomming the next stake holder in the company?

Also who was it that placed the offers that Toll jrejected originally?

A well dressed fella walks into a village in the jungle.......

halas

Whoever dares take up those shares will want to turn it around and do it quickly, which I think if DJ has any chance of survival it'll have to be turned into a LAMB - lean-and-mean business. A big restructuring would be the only answer.

I suppose such airlines as SQ and EK might have once shown interest but in the current climate, they have their own bottom lines to look after. Besides SQ has been shafted buying 49% of VS, I doubt the Singaporeans will take another 'red' lemon with open hands. Especially after someone else has chucked it on the floor.

And, if Branson was so confident about DJ why didn't he just take up some/all of Toll's shares? My guess is he's looking for another sucker.

Desmotronic,

I never wonder but always laugh harder at guys on the flight deck who think because they have done an ATPL they know how an airline should be run.

I don't see a problem with a non-pilot coming onto a RUMOUR network and talking about things non-technical.

M

Betsy, Branson was trying to buy more of Virgin Blue back at around $1.80 a share at the end of last year. Toll rejected that.

The Shift of 61% Equity in One Transaction at a Given Point in Time
 

Some points that I have pondered since the announcement yesterday as an observer only (in an unaffected or preconceived fashion- and I stand to be corrected on any of them):

Ex the Toll announcement to the Market-

Link here: TOLL ASX Announcement.14.07.08

The Share Distribution Date is 22 August 08 - so I assume that is the date of effective title transfer and that they become "Trade-able" as at 10:00 AEST on the opening of the market?????

Ex: The Courier Mail article today-

Link here:15.07.08 Toll Holdings to offload nearly all its Virgin shares | The Courier-Mail

The Toll holding is 62.7% or 648,000,000 shares (acquired as part of the Patrick takeover) of which they are going to retain 1.7% or 11,000,000 shares as a strategic holding, leaving some 637,000,000 shares (61% distributed to Toll shareholders 1 for 1 as a "Dividend") to be effectively pumped into the current market at 10:00 AEST on Friday the 22nd of August.
(all figures above ex CM article- I haven't done the research)

Not that I'm not saying that there is not someone out there preparing to do a strategic snatch and grab on the stock/airline- or players currently assembling a position (post the announcement) in the lead up to this distribution.

Given the demographic of the current shareholders of Toll receiving this "Dividend"- which will include Institutions, Professional/Experienced traders and Broking Houses.

What is the capacity/appetite of the market in these current times to absorb that volume of an aviation stock, and what net effect will that have on the price?????

Or what will the commitment/fortitude of these new stockholders be to ride out the current Aviation Cycle???????

For Toll having had a "professional adviser" work on disposing of their holding for some time- they have paid a dividend in the form of an airline to their current holders- would they not just book the difference between the holding value in the books and the dividend as a book loss going forward????, and get on with life.

I understand fuel hedging by VB was only introduced after input by Toll at a board meeting. If this had not happened god only knows what would have happened with VB.

Section28,
It well known that Pacific National was the main game in the Patrick takeover and not VB. The market was well aware that TOLL wanted to offload VB since the word go. Going forward who knows whats next for the share price but there are lots of super funds who will be obliged to acquire VB holdings to maintain their index weighting.

Anyhooo VB up another 10% today.

Mmmmmbop,
I suppose you have to learn to amuse yourself in the back seat there's not much else to do.

Oil?
 

And the middle eastern airlines will be happy as the oil price cripples all the others.

Whoever does end up taking over DJ I think we will see a very different airline as a result

What I meant was why didn't RB take up some/all of Toll's shares yesterday? He obviously knew they were going to offload. And at Friday's closing price 50.5c it was a bargain compared to $1.80.

Or is he hanging around for the price to drop further and then sweep in?


To DJCCGuy - DJ has to change regardless - it simply can't survive in its current form. I took a DJ flight on the weekend and they were handing out those free earphones in the hope many would pay for the Foxtel onboard. I took one and only used it for the preview. You gotta wonder how much money is being wasted - totally unnecessarily - on those everyday.

I find it even more amusing that the CEO of VB is a failed Commercial Pilot but is smart enough (thats up for debate) to run an airline.

desmontronic. I do not see what has changed, why would any current index hugger have to acquire further VBA shares, regardless their All Ordinaries index weighing is currently just 0.04%.

Ironically so is Alan Joyce by his own admission

B772,
Indices often have minimum liquidity in addition to minimum capital requirements.

Conned air?
 

Lemme ask if I'm getting this right. Toll shareholders get free Virgin shares. Toll writes off the difference between its investment and the price of VBA averaged over five days before the strike date in August.

But if VBA goes up, the tax free value to Toll holders goes up, the write down on Toll's books goes down.

And, duh, Paul Little and his mates keep their VBA shares and seats on the VBA board.

Far ******* out.

I doubt Branson has the money or inclination to buy more shares in VB. The global aviation problem due to the price of fuel has probably hit his personal wealth as well.
Toll are getting out of the aviation business which isn't their core business so whats the fuss about. VB will be traded like crazy on the first few days as institutions try to get a piece of the action as the company is trading well below what it is worth on paper. Toll values the company at $1.47 and don't forget the $700 million in cash that VB has.
Also don't forget nearly 90% of the shares are off the market at the moment and it isn't till August that the 61.5% get distributed (1% remain with Toll). How many of those end up in Paul Little and his mates pocket as they are substantial share holders of Toll.
The funds (your superannuation) will invest in VB as soon as it gets back into the ASX 300 because that is what they do. They have exposure to all companies and they trade them daily.
If I was a betting man I would say that VB will be trading around $1 by Christmas as long as Australia doesn't get dragged down to much by the economic destruction of the US Empire.

PS. Headsets would cost next to nothing to make so you probably only need one or two people to buy the Foxtel to cover the cost of the days headsets. Also VB aren't giving away the advertising space on CH 13 and 29 for free. God knows if subliminal advertising works but the people who buy and sell that stuff probably believe that it does.

share price
 

Currently share price is 69c, after hitting a high of 70c today. So since the Toll announcment the price has risen 20c.

Middle Management
 

The decks need to be cleared of the vast numbers of middle managers that just werent here 7 years ago. Millions could be saved immediately when it's realised how much deadwood has been accumulated over the good years. :ugh:

Word on the IFE is that BG doesn't give a **** whether people buy it or not. As long as it gets the advertising, (and it does), it's revenue neutral, including the headsets.

Not sure about the newer white headsets but the old red ones were bought in "massive" quantities at 3.9 cents each.

Each box received by the stores guys was around 1400mm long, a metre high and 800mm wide and they were absolutely chock full of them.

It wouldn't surprise me if the LiveTV company provided them now.

US Air are removing IFE from 200 domestic aircraft as the novelty has worn off. The savings in fuel and other costs approx. $15M per annum.

B772 I wouldn't use US as an example of an airline doing the right things!

They are removing IFE as they cant afford it - not because the novelty has worn off.

The contrarian in me says this thread should read "how high can the VB share price go!"

Up 50% since last week.

LFandH,
Big call for your first post, pm me if you would like a wager.:8