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Spike,
Sounds interesting. Are you Dutch my friend ? I have investments in a few portfolios, the bulk being resources and property. However butter is a new concept. I will take that under advisement ! |
Cactus,
We agree on a number of things. But my gripe is the efforts here in general to rewrite the short history of Virgin Blue to vilify Godfrey. Most of the outstanding result that Borghetti is quoted as praising was made in the 10 months before he took up his role or in the 8 months before he was selected. If Godfrey had been a goose DJ wouldn't have made it this far. I'm not just a shareholder. I have family in the airline. And if it hadn't been for Godfrey a lot of pilots who wanted to come back to Australia would still be eating sand because they would be on a black list. I don't think anyone is perfect, but he had good run, and still owns part of the operation. |
Denabol
Make no mistake, Godfrey is a goose, and like all geese, he surrounded himself with other geese.
That is not to deny the fact that he and his gaggle oversaw the massive growth of the last ten years, and is testament to his entrepreneurial skills that he was able to ride the wave. What we have evidenced over the last 4 years or so is a clear indictment of his management skills. Once the going got tough, they had no ideas, as evidenced by the disastrous introduction of premium, in flight entertainment, and V Australia. As JB has stated, on it's current trajectory, VB had about 5 years to extinction. Through his knowledge of how the big boy airlines play, and his contacts within the industry he has taken the flying circus and given it a direction that may not ensure a bright future, but gives it a fighting chance. As an investor, you would be aware that the market is never wrong. Sometimes it may be a bit misaligned, but never wrong. The market voted and it said Godfrey and his gaggle was a liability and he had to go. The market is now cautiously endorsing what appears to be the foundations of a grown ups airline that may be able to compete with serious airlines like Qantas. |
BG was right to pitch the idea of VB to RB and his launch timing was perfect, up and running with the wrinkles out by the time Ansett fell over or was pushed.
Certainly the VB he created was not what he expected pre Ansett demise. My humble opinion is that any reasonably competent manager could have built the airline within the vacuum created by Ansett being out of the market. They were probably playing catch up for 2-3 years just to bring in new airframes and scale up everything. Once that settled down BG had no new ideas that worked. Can anyone point to a stroke of brilliance other that actually starting the operation? Perhaps getting pilots to work for 2/3 of what other 737 drivers were earning in Australia but that was simply leveraging those who wanted to come home. As mentioned above, JB is in the seat and the share price reflects that the market likes what it sees and hears from JB. Fair praise for BG, he started it, it was his baby but it eventually needed more skills and experience than he could provide. He has become a very rich man as a result and good luck to him. |
I'll repeat the obvious. If we exclude earnings from loyalty programmes Virgin Blue is making twice as much money from airline operations than Qantas and Jetstar combined with fewer planes. Look at the DJ and QF presentations on the ASX site. Take notes. Compare the operational passenger earnings. Talk to your broker.
But I bow to the wisdom of the board. Godfrey was obviously a complete fool and we are all so much smarter and would have driven the airline bust in about four months. |
denabol,
If Godfrey had been a goose DJ wouldn't have made it this far Are you serious?? There are a plethora of geese that have carved out a name for themselves in history then succumbed to their own ego, ambitions, greed or arrogance. You are naive my friend. Try studying these two for starters - Dennis Kozlowski and Jeff Dachis. And if it hadn't been for Godfrey a lot of pilots who wanted to come back to Australia would still be eating sand because they would be on a black list I don't think anyone is perfect, but he had good run, and still owns part of the operation Big deal. He still owns a portion courtesy of a share float of which he was gifted a large chunk. Branson also owns a small piece of the pie even though his take in total has been reported as over $900 million to date. For that kind of return I too would remain ‘part owner’ with a minor portfolio as an outward statement that ‘I have trust and faith in the organization’. What a crock. If you think that because a former executive in a listed company owns a slice that this makes it a sound investment then I would say ‘good luck on your future and past investments’ based on that formula. But I bow to the wisdom of the board. Godfrey was obviously a complete fool and we are all so much smarter and would have driven the airline bust in about four months Aagh a sense of humor from the one who is pain! Four months you say? I will give your revered former leader some credit, I doubt it. But who knows what the future would have held under his ongoing direction, only a crystal ball could accurately answer that. It is time for you to take a denabol and go and relax. Virginexcess, What can I say, your posts are accurate in all aspects. Nice to see that ‘somebody is awake at the wheel’.But your masterstroke was this – As an investor, you would be aware that the market is never wrong. Sometimes it may be a bit misaligned, but never wrong. The market voted and it said Godfrey and his gaggle was a liability and he had to go icarus2001, My humble opinion is that any reasonably competent manager could have built the airline within the vacuum created by Ansett being out of the market Fair praise for BG, he started it, it was his baby but it eventually needed more skills and experience than he could provide |
VB Shares?
Hell no. Talk JB into listing himself and I will buy shares in him. High capital growth based on bugger all performance. You can't go wrong. Dip me in honey and throw me to the lesbians if I'm wrong!
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Since VBA made its move up from around 30c the increase in volume has been significant.
Average vol. for the last few weeks has been about 10m per day, for the last 9 trading days its 50m. |
And for every buyer, there is a seller - wealth is only created from anothers' loss, in this case......:cool:
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wealth is only created from anothers' loss Wealth, is in fact created from mutually beneficial exchange of property, ideas and possessions. |
The fact that the employees trading window is presently open would account for some of the increase in turnover.
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That wouldn't account for the increase, 63m yesterday. Staff would've had to get them pretty cheap to make it worth their while to sell them at the current price.
Tiger report they've cancelled flights due to a shortage of pilots. |
US plans rejection of Delta-Virgin Blue tie up
Ex Associated Press via the SMH:
US plans rejection of Delta-Virgin Blue tie up September 9, 2010 - 7:21AM Plans by Delta Air Lines and affiliates of Virgin Blue Group to collaborate on flights between the US and Australia have suffered a setback, with the US Transportation Department saying it expects to deny their request. Delta currently flies only between Sydney and Los Angeles. UAL Corp's United Airlines and Australian carrier Qantas Airways currently dominate the flight schedule between the two countries. Delta and Australian budget airline Virgin Blue wanted permission to coordinate fares and schedules, and to share money from the flights. Usually, antitrust laws would block that kind of collaboration, but airlines can get permission in some cases for joint ventures if they can show that consumers will benefit. Australian authorities approved the proposal in December. However, the Transportation Department said the airlines have not shown that the alliance would provide enough benefits for travelers such as lower fares or increased capacity. Also, the DOT said that Delta and Virgin Blue plan to limit their cooperation to the largest routes between the US and Australia, limiting the benefit for travelers. The two "have virtually no experience as commercial partners and employ business processes that they admit are not compatible," the DOT order said. "They have only just begun to explore the feasibility of arms-length cooperation, much less the degree of cooperation that requires, or would merit, a grant of antitrust immunity." The airlines have two weeks to object. "We strongly believe our proposed alliance with the Virgin Blue Group will be good for consumers," Delta said in a written statement. "We are reviewing the DOT's tentative order and will respond within the comment period." AP |
Maybe its time once and for all to close up whats only a loss maker for vb. Can't imagine their balance sheet if BG never bothered with the 777. Or even the EMB for that matter..or live tv.. or premium economy. Amazing the company is still open with all these rubbish loss making ideas. Hopefully JB will "cut the crap".
Tiger report they've cancelled flights due to a shortage of pilots. |
at present time this is only a preliminary denial
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Sandilands argues that this could see V Australia off the Pacific route and Singapore Airlines in.
Virgin sings the Delta blues while the Singapore girl hums along in waiting – Plane Talking |
Yep that'll be it. No US flights no V Australia.
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Maybe its time once and for all to close up whats only a loss maker for vb. Seems to me that some people here think that if an Australian based airline doesn't pay what QF pays then they shouldn't be allowed to operate. :hmm: VA will survive operating AUH-SYD (MEL) (BNE)-LAX and probably to Japan with the 777's, and there is no shortage of people to fly them. :D Also on the cards PER-AUH with VA metal codeshare with EY. :ok: |
Couldn't give a damn what their pilots make. Just basing it on what JB has said "VA loses ALOT of money". "Delta deal will make the world of difference". Then again the Etihad deal might have changed his mind. I don't think he's "in" to losing money.
Sandilands makes some interesting points in his blog. |
As of the most recent figures, VA is currently profitable on a month by month basis, also Alan Joyce stated on the ABC that Qantas are close to break even on the LA route, so it would stand to reason that VA would be break even or better on the same route, given ticket prices are comparable and VA's cost base would be significantly less than Qantas.
There is little doubt that JB won't stick with VA if it continues to make a loss, but there is every indication at present that genuine sustained profit is not too far off, with or without the Delta deal. A tie up with Delta would just put it beyond doubt for the short term. |
Well then how on earth do they rack up another 42 million dollar loss?
Come on please, this is not hard to see. Just look at the last 2 annual reports for the company, it is there for all to see. There is no magic in the last month that now makes it all suddenly break even. Best options are as stated here many times over many many months: http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/417038-virgin-blue-cut-domestic-international-routes.html#post5732578 http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/364779-v-aus-how-going-5.html#post4790027 http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/362854-v-australia-gets-aoc.html#post4730749 http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/362854-v-australia-gets-aoc.html#post4730916 |
VBA engineer,
What loss? VBA made around $34 million PBT in the full year, versus a loss of $160 million in the previous year. (That Godfrey guy was such a dill...) The NPAT was over $20 million. Do you read your engineering sheets with the same degree of accuracy as the company reports? |
denabol, he was referring to Voz not the VBA group as a whole. His figure is accurate.
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VBA Engineer the majic could come from the 92% load factor that VA is currently enjoying. The buzz recently from management is that VA has operated IN PROFIT for the last 2 months.
Chin up, old boy :ok: |
Go to any newspaper site at the moment and worry a little bit more about your VBA shares. The ACCC has also refused the trans Tasman alliance with Air New Zealand, on a draft basis. I'm going to sit tight and try not to look for the next few weeks.
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flamingmoe, OK point taken. But an overall switch from a loss of $160 million to a profit of $34 million in a year when Godfrey was still running the show suggests a bloody good effort to me.
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Be interesting to see how the thwarted code share arrangements will influence Borghetti's masterplan. Hot on the heels of the DoT announcing its intention to block the DELTA tie-up, the ACCC are now announcing that it intends to block the AirNZ codeshare on the Tasman, and this after PacBro have already given the domestic market in NZ over to AirNZ. The ACCC has further announced its intention to fast track its process in evaluating the consumer impact of the proposed ETIHAD codeshare. I'd be gobsmacked if this deal doesn't get through (but then again - I've had my gob smacked in the past).
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denabol - eng is correct Voz not VBH and dare I say it I agree, Godfrey did dosome good things...however....
the Godfrey profit claims (there were many and varied)) were based on all those largely non reportable off balance sheet liabilities that Borghetti to his credit acknowledged when he stepped onto the field. That's also sound management that the market will ultimately back. It's a tough call by the ACCC today re the Tasman tie up - not a decision that I entirely agree with but I do think the consolidation of VB and a move away from nowhere-land marketing and the fragmented brand entities will be good for the business. Less of the Bransonesque fluff and back to business tuff if you like! - once the reactive sell down from today pulls up, the view will over time get back to EBIT & ROI performance markers. Under Borghetti I tend to think the group will be been seen in a more positive mode. The pressure from the ever present bilateral auction is building up momentum and the last thing we need is a local weak/vulnerable RPT aviation sector as our pollies are not smart enough to preclude aviation from the bi-lateral agreements. (Beware paricularly the proposed Mid East agreements that carry the fuel/carbon flag that is like chocolate to governments). For this reason alone I hope Borghetti racks up a few runs wih the market. The biggest risk to every Driver, CC, or Eng is that which we all have in common - those pirate agreements that send our jobs offshore & bugger everyone's T&C's. :E AT |
The core 737 domestic operation is proven, and is a highly profitable business. But make no mistake, the comical duo of Godfrey/Swift, would have driven it all to ruin inside of 3yrs with their neverending rap sheet of cock-ups.
Changes made thus far to Voz services are a step in the right direction, but JB still has a huge task ahead of him to see VBA out of the woods. I for one, believe (hope) he'll do a good job. |
The core 737 domestic operation is proven, and is a highly profitable business. But make no mistake, the comical duo of Godfrey/Swift, would have driven it all to ruin inside of 3yrs with their neverending rap sheet of cock-ups. Changes made thus far to Voz services are a step in the right direction, but JB still has a huge task ahead of him to see VBA out of the woods. I for one, believe (hope) he'll do a good job. |
Cough!
Well.... It seems DJ are still here and to stay! |
Hmmmm!
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And let's not forget they floated at $2.25 in 2003 |
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