Two questions -

1 -When did I mention mining?
2 - Why should aviation be different?

Seriously, tell me why there should be one law for aviation and one for every other

Yeah, I read the 3 posts you mentioned, what about the other two and a half pages worth that are written in bold, seventy five point text that scream stuff like "aussie jobs, aussie pilots"

A thought...
 

As someone gladly flying back in OZ after many years overseas (post 2001) I have to admit I have met plenty of Ozzies living and flying permanently overseas, so aren't we being just a little bit hypocritical here? :bored:

Also lets not forget OZ is an immigrant nation. We or our parents or grandparents etc all came here and got jobs at one stage or another...:rolleyes:

I for one would rather have a yarpy pilot fulfilling DIMA's immigration goals thans many of the others I see us taking in these days... At least they are a positive and skilled bunch - adding something to our community!

The simple fact is we are short of experienced & type rated guys and our employers are too tight to pay for training or to pay enough $$$ to bring other Ozzies home from the sand pit etc. That should be the focus of any lobbying, not victimising 457 visa holders... (IMHO)

Even if you brought in immigrants, it still wouldn't solve the problem of aircraft deliveries and retirements over the next five years. The problem is still going to get worse for the airlines before it gets better. I'd rather have experience in the cockpit than get too wrapped up in protection.

You didn't mention MINING d:mad: I did as an EXAMPLE of other industries importing foreign labour ( Philippines )

HELLO???????????????

Maybe you could mention a few other industries as well?

Hospitals maybe?

Nah they have plenty of Docs and Nurses available don't they

NOPE not hypocritical at all

READ previous post # 15 and on.

SUPPLY AND DEMAND folks, SUPPLY AND DEMAND

AS they said on the Movie Madagascar: " just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"

THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF QUALIFIED PILOTS IN OZ, OR PEOPLE WANTING TO BE QUALIFIED PILOTS.

ONLY A SHORTAGE OF PEOPLE WILLING TO WORK FOR PEANUTS

I tell ya what Victor 2, you sound like a management type. Quite evidently you are not part of the fraternity of Australian pilots. What you are is a PENGUIN. You are involved in aviation, but cant fly.

457 visas open up the Australian market to low paid coolies, nothing more. These people come as indentured labor and undercut what should be the Australian market rate of pay for Australian Pilots. Or do you not feel that the Australian Government should have a social contract with its citizens that gives them preference for employment?

The difference between myself (an expat Pilot) and the 457 pilot immigrants is that in the countries where I have worked overseas, the companies have had to PAY MORE THAN LOCAL RATES to attract aviation talent. This in itself serves to improve conditions for local pilots. The mechanism for this is shown by local Pilots becomming more attractive to employ once they gain the requisite skill set.

What the 457 program will do is undermine local Australian conditions and make it less attractive for Australian pilots to remain in the local industry or in regional operations. If you were a Pilot, you would understand this.

That's the issue, mate, we are good. We are experienced, but there are no "good" jobs in Australia. I wouldn't come back for what's on offer that's for sure.

mate we are no different to other jobs.

Why should we pay $80,000+ to get our qualifications and then get paid LESS than a truck driver at the mines. THEN the Airlines CANNOT get anyone to FLY their shiny news planes so they say PILOT SHORTAGE then go overseas to find any Monkey to fly for PEANUTS.

UTTER BS

Go back to your desk and leave us alone.

Dunnybudgee, this is the crux of the issue:

Not the case at all. There is ample, AMPLE evidence on this forum that proves that there are many "experienced and type rated guys" who would love to come back to Oz even at existing rates.

ACMS-with you 100% on this one.

How do you think that the AMA would react if a whole bunch of Romanian, Vietnamese or Zimbabwian doctors come to Oz to work for $2000 USD per month? There is, after all, a shortage of doctors in Australia.

Trubru, Thanks for putting up the FO T & C.

Can you please do the same for a Cpt please?

Is this a case of the incumbents sitting back while the next generation get screwed again? Utterly disgraceful for sc@bs like this who would have no other legal right to work here to be brought in on a dodgy employer sponsored visa.

What are the oz unions doing about it????? I just started flying again and im off to join up and find out.

From good authority, 457 visas will not be an issue for the Qantas Group pilots, the Government won't give the Qantas Group management anywhere near the numbers that they want .That includes JetStar, Eastern, Sunnies ,Qantas.:ok:

I know how about we see that all pilot jobs currently going in OZ be listed with CenterLink. And all pilots seeking a job list themselves as available with CenterLink. Let this Govt Agency put the pieces of the ugly jigsaw puzzle together for us. Obvioulsy the current system is fraught with anger & dissapointment right across the board.
My thoughts are said with tongue in cheek to some degree 'cause I am not qualified to even begin to put that lot together but with threads like this I feel we are now showing signs of self destructing within:bored:

It's a bloody good job that we all LOVE flying 'cause I doubt any other industry would survive the sever instability we have between our ranks.


CW

"the Government won't give the Qantas Group management anywhere near the numbers that they want "

Which allows us to ponder how many the previous Gummint would have granted :E

HOWARDS FAULT, HOWARDS FAULT, HOWARDS FAULT !!!:p

there Is No Shortage Of Qualified Pilots In Oz, Or People Wanting To Be Qualified Pilots.

Only A Shortage Of People Willing To Work For Peanuts

Do you non-Pilot's get it yet??????????


YOU ARE NEXT........

ACMS, just to let you know that pilots are not the first (even in the aviation industry) to be treated this way. Recently, air traffic controllers were issued 457 visas in EXACTLY the same manner you are discussing here. Meanwhile, expat aussies were told they were "less suitable" than the foreigners sponsored by AsA (which is, in effect, a govt dept). How AsA was even allowed to provide 457 visas is a mystery (given that the criteria for issuing them was not met). A letter-writing campaign to ministers, MPs etc. may have had some effect. Time will tell.

I hope people understand that most do not take issue with those individuals who have availed themselves of this means of entry, it is those responsible for these activities who deserve the vitriol (and who also are directly responsible for causing the "shortage" in the first place).

You have to love the way the champions of 'globalisation' cannot stomach the consequences of a global market for skilled labour. Rather than pay 'global' money, they distort the market by selling the 'lifestyle' dream. Hypocrites.

Kangaroo Court - please explain more about a/c deliveries and pilots required. I know QF have a big 787 order but I didn't apprechaite that the situation was that bad for airlines or that good for me wanting to come in on a 457 visa.

Ferris: yep, not the first and hopefully the LAST to treated this way.

UP THE WORKERS.

Trainig???
 

And did our airline pay money for the training in Yarpieland???

You're assuming there was training....................

If there was QF certainly didn't coff up

"Pilot - Aircraft Pilot" is not on the SOL but is on page 8 of the ENSOL - IE: Must be employer nominated. The ENSOL is to do with the Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856). This is a permanent visa, unlike the Temporary Business Long Stay – Standard Business Sponsorship (subclass 457).

• Also included are:
• ATCer,
• Flying Instructor,
• (L)AME.

These are not temporary 457 visas. It is PERMANENT VISAS which are being sought by what is, like it or not, effectively foreign "scab labour" (and that term is used in the industrial sense). The 457 business appears to be a furphy. Barking up the wrong tree?