Boeing signals new widebody to battle Airbus

Wednesday Jun 22, 2011


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Boeing is leaning toward a bigger version of the 787 Dreamliner as the United States company seeks to outmanoeuvre Airbus in a widebody jetliner market it reckons will be worth almost US$2 trillion ($2.4 trillion) over the next 20 years.
The 787-10 could enter service by 2016, Jim Albaugh, Boeing's commercial aeroplanes chief, said yesterday before the Paris Air Show.
That would provide competition for Airbus' A350-900 and steal a march on the larger A350-1000, which won't be ready until 2017.
"We have to go through some more analysis and we haven't decided yet if we'll offer it, but it wouldn't surprise me if we did," Albaugh said.
Building the 787-10 would help Boeing counter the A350's threat in markets where the company's 777 - which captured the first widebody orders at the show yesterday - is dominant, giving it a breathing space to upgrade a design that debuted in the 1990s.
The largest Dreamliner would seat as many as 330 people, versus 210 to 250 for the 787-8 variant currently in production, and 250 to 290 for the planned 787-9.

Airbus's A350-series planes will be able to carry between 250 and 400 passengers.
"The A350-900 is aimed directly at the 777-200ER, and the 787-10 would be a good way of defending that turf," said Richard Aboulafia, vice-president of consulting company Teal Group. "It means they can attack the replacement market, which is very important."
Boeing, based in Chicago, received the first major order at the Paris expo with a contract from Qatar Airways for six 777-300ER long-distance planes - worth US$1.7 billion at list prices.
Qatar Air, the second-biggest Middle Eastern carrier, has 25 777s with 15 more already due for delivery and regards the model as the "backbone" of its long-haul fleet, chief executive Akbar al Baker said yesterday.
Albaugh said separately that Boeing would have "a number of announcements" for orders at the Paris show this week.
Boeing is seeking to catch Airbus after its rival remained world No 1 last year, delivering a record 510 planes, 48 more than the US company. Airbus is also top by orders, winning contracts for 644 jets, with 70 cancellations giving a net intake of 574. Boeing won 530 net orders after 95 cancellations.
Toulouse-based Airbus is delaying introducing the A350-1000 by 18 months to add range and payload. The 787-10 wouldn't match that model for distance, said Nick Cunningham, an aerospace analyst at Agency Partners in London, but would fill a "high-capacity, shorter-range niche". It might appeal to carriers that had already signed up for the two smaller variants.
The 787-10 would be about 15 per cent bigger than the 787-9, seating about 40 more passengers, Boeing executives said. Its operating costs would be 10 per cent lower than the A350-900 and 5 per cent lower than the A350-1000, said Nicole Piasecki, head of business development.
"Our customers are very interested in this aeroplane, and we're in the process now of deciding when to put it into service," Piasecki said.
Boeing will evaluate the timetable and performance of the A350-1000 before reaching a conclusion regarding the 777.
"The issue is whether they decide to respond with a 777 upgrade or replacement," said Cunningham. "They won't do two programmes at the same time."
Aboulafia said a launch decision for the 787-10 wouldn't in itself protect the market taken by the longest-range 777.
"It's what you do a notch up from that that's the question," he said. "It's not quite the same as having a definitive answer on the 777-300ER front."
General Electric would begin testing a new compressor next year with a view to developing its GE90 engine in order to be ready when Boeing decided the next step for 777, GE Aviation chief executive David Joyce said in Paris.
Joyce said he was not surprised Airbus was delaying the A350-1000 so Rolls-Royce Holdings could improve the performance of the Trent XWB engine that powers the twinjet.
"It's playing out a lot like we thought it would," he said. "We never thought you could have one engine that spans the size of those aircraft."
A verdict on whether to offer an all-new narrowbody or opt to re-engine the 737 would be reached "probably by the end of the year", Albaugh said.
"We're not going to be rushed into a decision," he said.
"I don't think there has really been a delay. We're really trying to get this right. By the end of the year we should have a decision."

Looks like it won't be long before the 787 is operational on an RPT flight ...

Magnificent machine :ok:

I got to fly the 787 sim in Gatwick last year during the 777 course. VERY impressive piece of kit.:ok:

Maybe Boeing should have waited for this technology to mature!

Southampton engineers fly the world

The ANA B787 configuration for long haul is 46J/112Y for a total of 158 passengers. This will be a comfortable plane.

BTW. Who is the long haired youngster Captain in the RHS of the video posted by training wheels ?.

Any idea when the B787 is scheduled to make its first revenue flight?

High_To_Low

The first commercial flight is expected to be an ANA charter flight from Haneda to Hong Kong sometime in September. The date of operation will be decided after the B787 is certified. The first ANA aircraft is ready for delivery.

thanks B772 ;)

Fuel flow is 11400 lbs/hr @ 485Kts.

Damned if these guys haven't just reinvented the 707 with bigger fuel tanks!
707-320 1974 - 20P/120Y, with greater seat pitch than today's aircraft. Fuel flow was about 11400 lbs/hr @ 485 Kts.

I stand to be corrected on this but i believe the Jetstar 787s will be configured for 310 seats. Compare this to ANAs 42 J class 112 Y international and 42 J and 180 Y domestically. How they think the punters will put up with the small pitch in Y class and i wonder if the seats will go back and no lie flat J class is beyond me.

Reconfig soon after you get the aircraft is not a new concept at Jetstar.:rolleyes:

I'm guessing those fuel flow figures for the 787 would be for the total of both engines and the 707 would be for each engine? :)

Dreamliner delivery for Japan, at last

6:15 AM Monday Sep 26, 2011


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All Nippon Airways has been trumpeting its first 787 delivery status for years.

Boeing delivers its first 787 jet today. It's been a long time coming.
The jet, which was supposed to be flying passengers three years ago, has been delayed by production and design problems. But now it's here, and airlines expect it to offer travellers much more comfort, open up new routes and provide fuel savings.
The first one goes to Japan's All Nippon Airways, which has been printing the 787 logo and "We Fly 1st" on its business cards for years.
Airlines love the jet, which Boeing calls the Dreamliner. They've ordered more than 800, well above levels for previous jets.

"A lot of carriers are betting that this is going to be a winner," says George Hamlin, president of Hamlin Transportation Consulting in Fairfax, Virginia.
Instead of the usual aluminum skin, most of the 787 is covered in carbon fibre, basically a high-tech plastic that is strong but lightweight. Military planes and portions of other jetliners have used that material for years, but this is the first time so much has been used on an airliner. The material brings improvements that passengers should notice.
Its strength allows windows to be bigger and higher, so passengers don't have to hunch over to see the horizon.
Finally, the cabin is pressurised to the equivalent of 1800m, instead of the usual 2400m.
The first US customer is United Continental Holdings, which plans to fly its Dreamliners between Houston and Auckland, and Houston and Lagos, Nigeria.

What are all those funny antennae down the whole length of the upper fuselage......? ;)

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. :p

"What are all those funny antennae down the whole length of the upper fuselage......?"

lightning rods! FAA requirement for carbon fibre aircraft, the same sort of redesign that doomed the Beech Starship.

protect it from magpies swooping

Thats the latest in LED Logo Lights!!!

The long awaited first delivery has taken place ...

Anyone know what the initial rate of delivery will be like considering they had a fair few frames gathering dust out there? I would have thought they would be able to deliver 10-15 reasonably quickly.