Obviously, you know nothing about the A330 then. With almost a full load of pax on a 5.5 hour flight, FL380 is easily achieved.:cool:

As far as I can tell, NRT-CNS is about seven hours, not 5.5. Talking to my bus colleagues, if they're going to FL380 straight out of Japan for CNS then they're pretty empty.

Actually JQI announced the triangulation service on NGO/KIX well before they started services ex Cairns, it hasn't 'just' happened at all.
AO loads to/from Japan were as a general rule poor except of course in Japanese holiday periods. FUK relied on school excursions to Oz but they had a habit of cancelling at the last moment.
A330 can achieve a much higher level at initial cruise weights than a 767....please base your ramblings on facts and not opinions.
The Japan market is tough, Japanese tend to follow the herd mentality ( no offense but it's true...thanks Ja'mie ) and the herd loves Hawaii. Complete package deals, an incredible amount of flights Japan/Hawaii = low prices, yen-$us is still roughly the same, Oz dollar has strengthened 30% in recent years, lots and lots of High-end USA Brand-name shopping, Japanese spoken everywhere and the Japs love it!! As an aside, flying Northwest wouldn't be any better than Jetstar, man those hosties are old ( again no offense but it's true ).
Asked my mates in Jetstar and they haven't heard any news re JQI taking CNS/NRT soon however as Dixon announced mid last year it will happen sometime '08 ( Oct? ), I suggest you watch the JQI delivery schedule carefully and see if they withdraw from any existing routes.....that's when we will know. How the 787 delay will affect timing is simply NOT known at this stage.
Cheers R.D.:)

Dixon=Yesterday

The numbers on J* don't add up
New Chair not a supporter of dilution of yield. Have you guys heard of Gordon Bethune? Look him up and see what happened at Continental...

The longer I live the more history I see repeat.
Australia is soo much the poor cousin, this two brand rubbish has been done to death overseas. The one trick pony will be consigned to history.

It is also interesting to note that worldwide LCC are trying to morph into something akin to a legacy carrier. Jetblue, VirginBlue, Southwest are just some who are trying to bring in a higher business fare or business class to attract higher yield. Meanwhile Ryanair and Tiger are charging for excess luggage, seats next to each other and the like.

It will be interesting in 10 years time how many true LCC remain and how many have moved closer to the legacy carriers that they all claimed had unsustainable business models. LCC have won the battle but they may end up losing the war.

Interesting to see where Jetstar will wind up in this.

There aren't all that many independent travellers in Japan, and those that are tend to head to Europe. Cairns, Hawaii and other locations within 8 hours of Japan are pretty much package tour destinations. Japanese package tours tend to be short duration: 3 to 5 nights. I think few people in Kanto will travel to Nagoya for a package departure. It's somewhat mroe accessible from Kansai. But the last leg from the shinkansen to the airport works against it mightily. Also, a shinkansen ride in both directions back to Kanto adds say 20% to the cost of the package. So the catchment area may be smaller than Nagoya would like to suggest it is.

Package tours are put together by the major travel agents, for example H.I.S. &JTB Corp. Hearsay suggests J* doesn't have much quality contact with the likes of H.I.S. and JTB Corp (the biggy, turnover USD 15 billion).

Ratpoison,

Obviously you know nothing about distances and flying times. 7.00 to 07.30 depending on the season. FL380 in the 330 with any sort of load ain't happening. The proof of no load is when less than 1 hr later they are asking for 400 going into Moresby.

Request referred -'AO loads as a general rule were poor'. What a crock of the proverbial. Never light, to any of the Japanese destinations serviced. Of course there were peak and off peak loads, but essentially the jets were pretty full.

M

FL400 as optimum on a -200 at ISA plus 10 is approx 175 tonnes. Do jetstar fly these international sectors using 202 tonnes max weight or 233T?

AO loads in the last two years of operations were poor, hence it's closure. If they have been good then the airline wouldn't have been shut down. 120-150 pax on a 271 config a/c is not a good load. The last revenue seat factor published for AO 2005-2006 was 67.6%, continuing a downward trend. That's how it was, any other recollection is pure fantasy. QF domestic for example is currently running at 90%...that's a good load.
Let it go, it's gone :ugh:
Anyway, back to the original topic of Jetstar, how will the 787 delay affect them?

Jetstar
 

Osaka flight this morning, 130.

Some part of Jetstar is unwell. Having just looked at the Qantas Group numbers for Sept., I see that each business unit has improved is Revenue Seat Factor this year versus last year except for Jetstar: Jet* SF has declined 3.7%. Sep 07 compared with Sep06 shows a decline of 5.7 points while other business u nits grew. Interestingly, Jet* numbers are totalled (Domestic and International) whereas Qantas shows Domestic, International, and QantasLink.

Well done B A Lert, here's an example of someone using facts to support their argument......Bravo :D

I believe that AO "failed" not so much because of poor loads but rather a cost base that was deemed to be too high. AIPA ensured that pilot pay was not cut below mainline levels while cabin crew weren't all that far behind their mainline brethren. Overlay these facts with some of the woes of the time (SARS, Bali bombings) combined with a generally poor management, you end up with a pretty good recipe for an enterprise not to succeed as well as it should.

The Genius of Joyce will steer it through to a different outcome this time...

If only the two lil people could see over the dashboard...:ugh:

As has been stated, Aust Asia was set up to operate Taiwan flights. Other carriers (eg. BA and KLM) did similar. But it had to be a 'real' airline, with its own corporate structure, to appease the PRC authorities - hence it had its own CEO, CP, AOC, etc. but clearly could lease or charter aircraft in or out as required.

One thing in all of this... why the emphasis on bringing Japanese tourists into Australia? Why not market carrying Australian tourists, to Japan (and other parts of North Asia)? Get out of Tokyo or Osaka and Japan is no more expensive than western Europe (except for steak... :{). Good skiing in Hokkaido, some nice beaches in the south, lovely mountainous scenery in western Honshu... with the AUD at current levels, why hasn't anyone thought to market Japan as a destination to Aussies? :confused:

Tourism Austraiia
 

Is run by overpaid myopic morons.These people attend cocktail parties and envelope openings,slap each other on the back...saying God we do a fantastic job.
Tourism Australia is a lucky dip.

JQI IS profitable, even on Japan.

BAL - Whilst seat factor (do you mean load factors?) have declined, what were the RPK's vs ASK's for the same period?

Facts speak louder than rumours and the facts for Jetstar were supported by yesterdays Board announcement. Massive growth for Jetstar, more replacements for Qantas.

QF middle management may like to spin pilots stories about how 'they' would get rid of the terrible 'brand destroying' Jetstar. However, as long as Senior Management bonus payments are hinged to 'Group' performance, and provided Jetstar pulls its weight, it will stay and grow.

Now lets wait to see how many 787's Jetstar really get............

If J* int is profitable then show an audited set of accounts, as a stand alone entity. This crap that gets espoused from some corners here and by Q "mis-management" shows contempt for accounting convention.

• Gifted assets, terminals, staff, check in desks etc
• Fuel?
• Aircraft costs?
• Routes?

Sunfish said it earlier and I repeat...It is called CONTRIBUTION MARGIN. J* pays very little for what it gets in terms of everything from the parent, in the annual reports details remain scant and many think it contributes.
To paraphrase Gordon Bethune who inherited Continental from that idiot who Dixon models himself on.......

Costs are one part of the business, GROWING REVENUE takes talent. So let's charge em nothing and sell a seat for $x dollars cheaper than mainline".It's called paper profit, and the lack of full time aviation analysts means that most of the 26 year olds at these firms buy it.. It is called dilution of yield. What more could be expected from an uneducated yob from yesterday...

Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a dill than to hit the 'submit' button and remove all doubt. Who says that the stories aren't coming from senior management? I know that's where they've come from when I've heard them. Not all in the executive think J* is a winner.