My summary from another thread: Retain staff, attract staff. Swallow the pride, unpuff the chest: the pilot tree is nearly empty.

Liking your work Keg.

What a bunch of gooses
 

:ugh:Having just a little while ago walked out of Rex's front door for good, I am glad to say I have found life as I never knew it before. Crews were great to work with but I wouldn't give a toss for the management and I think I can talk for a lot of the past and present crews, the training and checking top brass are totally out of control and this is reflected in the company's lack of ability in holding onto pilots.
Throwing money at the staff problem will fix things in the short term but that management mob take the cake, I don't recall any one having any respect or time for the likes of CH, NH, MN or JD, if Kim and his bunch can't see the total lack of talent these drop-kicks exhude then I don't see a lot of future for the company. And I really don't care.
What a laugh, give me a break, train a bunch of low timers for the right seat, soon there won't be any experienced left seaters left and these new trainees will want their upgrade to the left seat with 50 hours on type.
I'm so glad I won't have to fly the SLAB myself while training them for the same lousy pittance of a pay packet.
This company is a joke, share the sentiments of these Pprune pages with the shareholders and the ASX and get them out of the air, maybe they will be replaced with a genuine operator. Well we can only hope. :eek:

Problem is Crankhandle.

"Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them."

Something that aviation managers in this country have honed to a fine edge!

Shortage
 

The flying schools have been telling us about the pilot shortage for the last 35 years.

Absolutely bushy,

Ever heard of the little boy who cried "WOLF"

eight months to train a pilot..... what planet does this joker

An accountants tale
 

I'm not a pilot. I'm an accountant.

I recently applied for a position with Rex in their accounts department and shortly after got an email offering me an interview. I was to travel from Brisbane to Melbourne and back, stay in a hotel overnight and attend the interview...all at my own expense. So for my outlay of about $700 I certainly wanted to know what exactly I was being interviewed for. So I wrote back thanking them for the opportunity and asked for a few questions to be answered:

1. What position is it that I will be assessed for in the interview?
2. Where would I be based for my employment with Regional Express?
3. What are the pay and conditions of the role I would be applying for?

4. Would Rex be interested in covering the costs of my CPA training in return for a minimum period of employment?

And so I waited for a reply...

But after 10 days there was no response. I wondered if I had slipped through the gaps in there system. I called the number listed on the email and got a mesage bank. I left a brief message with my contact number, but again there was no response.

I've now found employment that I'm happy with and no longer care for an interview with Rex, but I scratch my head and wonder what ever happened with them.

OK, so I'm no accountant, I am a pilot. With 2,800hrs and 1,000 multi with ATPL's. But the above is my recent experience with Rex.

Good luck finding your pilots fellas.

Well said crankhandle......

CH lost me when he said that pilots will extend their duty for no extra cash because they are shareholders and will do it for the company...:ugh:

The Plan
 

The Plan

In the beginning was the Plan.
And then came the Assumptions.
And the Assumptions were without form.
And darkness was upon the face of the Workers.
And they spoke among themselves, saying, "It is a crock of ****, and it stinketh."
And the workers went unto their Supervisors and said, "It is a pail of dung, and none may abide the odour thereof."
And the Supervisors went unto their Managers, saying, "It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong, such that none may abide by it."
And the Managers went unto their Directors, saying, "It is a vessel of fertiliser, and none may abide it's strength."
And the Directors spoke amongst themselves, saying one to another, "It contains that which aids plant growth, and it is very strong."
And the Directors then went onto the Vice Presidents, saying unto them, "It promotes growth and is very powerful."
And the Vice Presidents went unto the President, saying unto him, "This new plan will actively promote the growth and vigour of the company; with powerful effects."
And the President looked upon the Plan, and saw that it was good.
And the Plan became Policy.

This is How **** Happens.

Skystar320

"Accountants are the power in the engine, the pilots drive the plane, and everyone else makes it run smoother."
Ummmm ok:ugh:


This whole shortage thing could have been lessened by management/accountants not being as short sighted as they have been.
eg. Sunstate pilots crewing Q400s out of Canberra. They save 7% by not going with Eastern but they park Q400s on bay 15/16 sometimes cause they are out of crew. They were one of the first to really feel the crewing pinch because management wanted to be nasty. Sydney to CBR is a lot easier than BNE to CBR for a move. But hey they saved 7% on about 15 peoples wages.:ugh:
The "power in the engine" and their ilk have had blinkers on for a long time.


"and go get a real job "

Thanks champ I do.

and sorry for the late reply...something about being busy with a real job

Rex cadet training
 

Hi All,
I am new to this forum but have been following the REX story for a week or so. I sent in an application of interest. I have 13.5 hours up with 2.5 solo in a gazelle.
I am in I.T. and run my own computer repair business. I know a lot of you will say don't even bother becoming a pilot because of money etc.
I was wondering if anyone new where and how rex trained their pilots. I received and auto reply from my appication that went like this :
Dear Sir / Madam,
Thank you for applying for a Cadet Pilot position with Regional Express.
We are currently reviewing all applications and will contact you should your application proceed to the next stage.
Should your application not proceed to the next stage, your resume will be kept on file for a period of three months in case any positions arise that we feel you may be suitable for.
Once again thank you for your interest in working with REX.
Kind regards,
Human Resources
Is this the same as everyone else got. I guess I am just throwing my hat in the ring to see what comes of it.
I really enjoy reading the forums and get a lot out of you guys talking. I hope thngs get better for all pilots.

outthere,

gotta be in it to win it!

If you get an interview, my advice would be to go along. What do you have to lose?

PM me if you get the call. I would be more than happy to offer some tips.

Thanks
 

Thanks Crusty,

It is good to have some support from other pilots.

At the moment I a just hanging around like all the others. There must be quite a few pilots that put there interest in. Makes me wonder what chance I have.

On the other hand I may just have what they are looking for, whatever that is, but also I could fix computers on the side to help sustainsome sort of life.

What is your piloting experience rusty.

Jeremy

Outthere, you'll be just the candidate they are looking for...someone who can put in long hours and "sustain some sort of life" with another income on the side. The choice is up to you, but it's apparent that you don't regard Rex as a career in aviation, but a stepping stone on the way to getting one. I'm not blaming you; I would probably be considering the same in your shoes. I'm just making an observation.

And as a general comment; it's no wonder the aviation industry is staring down the tunnel of a possible pilot shortage. And as for a government fact-finding mission or whatever it's called. The answer is staring out from these web pages.

There are currently very few careers in aviation unless it's with the majors. Short-term jobs aplenty, but no careers.

Rex cadet training
 

Hi Lodown,

I think I see rex as a way to secure my childhood dream of becoming a pilot. I really enjoy flying.

The other option that my instructor gave me was to spend about $45,000 and he would take me into the commercial arena. Here is what he said :

Just thinking it through... for the flying component you should calculate it
out something like this:

Total hours required: 200 - you can credit your ultralight time against this
You will need to do the flight test (and therefore some of your training) in
an aircraft that can do over 120 kts and has a variable-pitch prop

We can build a night rating and probably an instrument rating into your 200
hours


Roughly speaking:

Grob: 60 hours dual (@200/hour), 40 hours solo (@150/hour)

Cessna C172XP or Cherokee: 30 hours dual (@230/hour), 30 hours solo
(@190/hour)

Cessna C206: 30 hours dual(@320/hour), 10 hours solo (@260/hour).

Thats a total of $42,800 incl GST... not a bad guess eh? You should speak to
an accountant about making it tax-deductible or GST free.

That is a VERY rough indication without taking your prior experience into
account. You could substitute a light twin for the C206 if you like, but I
would bet you as much as you like that your first job will be in a Cessna
206, 207 or 210.

Not many "new" commercial pilots have experience on a Cessna 206 and find
them a bit heavy and hard-to-handle initially. Training with Atlass (ie: me)
would give you a serious advantage there.

Hope that helps

I wouldn't mind just flying on a weekend basis commercially. I guess I am just letting the path unfold in front of me whatever way it might happen.

Jeremy

Ahhh drshmoo you have it all wrong yet again.....
Maybe the comment of 'and go get a real job' was a tad out of line and that i do apologise but its the same in every industry that we go into when a company fails everyone tries to blame the accountants for cutting corners when over 99% of the time is the flippin management who have made bad calls. :*:*:*
I dont know how you can bare to take cheap handed hand swipes at accountants it should be the management that you should be bending over :ugh::ugh::ugh:
Accountants only really identiy cost savings to the company and from Memory Sunstate / Eastern are two different companies i.e two managements and two lots of accountants. They cannot impliment these by themselves its up to the managment
Now enough of trying to sh*t :=:=:=:= the blame on accountants who work in the industry and put alot of time in (I know, as I Worked for a big company (no guess to whom ) and on several occasions we were putting in over 10 - 14hrs a day only to repeat is 5days a week.
Now I'd love to fly and its a shame MANAGEMENT are bloating their balls to themselves and not paying pilots enough, but I enjoy what I do for a living and enjoy when the bast*rds are behind bars :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:
I can identity that accountants are the power in the engines, pilots are the capable ones of flying us around where as management couldnt **** up a tree if they tried and all they do is fluff the pillows to make it look pretty in this case


Have a great day

outthere,

A local school here told me the exact same thing:

CPL/MECIR for $42 000

That is the route I would like to go down myself.:ok:


SS320,

:mad:

I can identify that you are out of your tree mate, in the history of the universe there has never been an accountant who is "the power in the engines". What a joke that statement is. The workers at the coal face are always 'the power in the engines'.

If the accountants go on strike for a day - nobody notices.

If the workers go out - the whole show grinds to a halt.

Where would the accountants be without the workers? You wouldn't even have a job without the workers.:ugh:

You must have the munchies by now eh?:E

Without accountants you wouldn’t get paid………………………………………………………………………………………………



[Lets get back to topic, as you know I am right in a business point of view]

I note that Skystar A320 has implemented his own cost savings by buying a computer that doesn't do commas...

And I see you have nothing else better than to pick out mistakes from people who actually contribute.

it is past the time
 

I have been reading this post for a week or so now and realise why i got out of aviation.

I now run a successful business in the tourism industry. The reason that companies can not keep employees is that they are all top heavy in terms of management and wages. They need to do what I have done and that is get rid of all the people that don't need to be there and combine there jobs with others. What they need to do then is use the money saved from that to pass on to employees.

I will give you an example of how much my tour driver / guides earn.

F/T
$75,000 per year + super
Fuel card
1 return airfare to anywhere in the world business class for them and a partner.
4 return airfares anywhere in aus per year and 6 weeks leave.

P/T

$300 per day + super
Fuel Card
50% off flights

This has all been on the return of taking 2 high management jobs away and passing the wages on to the drivers.

As a result we have a happier work force and have not lost a person in over 12 months and no sick days. Always are more active with and courteous with customers.

I think it is time for the aviation industry to do the same I can think of many ways that they can intergrate the high management and cut down on there wages which you don't have to then pass the cost onto customers.

flyby11 - and you wonder why your moral is so high :ok::ok: good one you mate there are some good managers out there

Where do I sign up? oh and my return intl destination = BCN :O

Well said flyby11

The money is already in the pockets of management & company owners. It is about time they pay pilots what they are worth instead of spending all the profits on their own selfish needs. :=

LMFAO nice one
 

LMFAO nice one HOG DRIVER!!!! Now we just need that on youtube and were done! hahahahahahaha kick arse

:)
:D
:ok:

Anyone who even tries to suggest that an airline like Rex can't improve salaries should have a look at their latest annual report. I just had a quick look, and they could have increased everyone's wages (including all levels of management) by 10% and still returned a profit of over $27m before tax (down from $33m) to shareholders.

People suggesting that they can't afford any payrise should look at the figures and then try and come to that conclusion.

And the consequences?
 

Dude, a profit figure as such doesn't really tell anyone much unless it's put into relation with things like invested capital and other financial company data. Interesting question actually that hasn't been answered here; can anyone shed light on whether or not Rex are actually performing financially and could really afford a significant salary increase?

Maybe you can also work out what such a proposed salary increase would do to EBIT (earnings before interest and tax) and a few other of the major performance indicators, as those would have a big impact on the value of the company and the attractiveness to investors and banks, which in turn is a major determining factor for any company's ability to raise capital and keep the the show on the road, or in the air in this case..

If the demonstrable performance of the company is still industry average or above after such a salary increase, you have a point, if not, then the management decision to keep salaries where they are is probably not that wrong given management has to look after all stakeholders of which employees are one group, but not the only one..

Standing by to be flamed :}

PlankBlender,

I'll light the first torch!

Do you actually know what is going on here? Jim Davis has stated publically that the major airlines in this country will require 1800 new pilots over the next 2 years! My estimates were about 60% of that number, and based on that REX were in deep trouble. If the numbers being stated by captain Davis are correct then REX is f#cked!

All your accounting gobbledygook mean absolutely squat if there are no pilots left to fly the aircraft.

I've said it before, leave the profits were they are and add $6.25 to the cost of every ticket. If it's loss of market share you're worried about, then leave the 5 routes that we compete on alone, and make it $7.00 per ticket for the rest!

Rex are already cancelling flights in record numbers, and several less profitable routes, (but profitable all the same) are under threat. Ask the travelling public from those communities what they would prefer?

Dude, I think their doing OK with:
SUPERIOR RETURN

• Return on equity of 23.1%
• Return on total assets of 15%
• Share price increase by 176% in the FY

from the latest Investor Briefing, page 3.

And the relevance would be?
 

Krusty I hear ya, but our respective points are mostly unrelated. If there is indeed a pilot shortage (and at the moment despite some early signs the jury seems to be still out), lack of supply of pilots will mean prices (read pilot wages and T&Cs) must go up. But that will have an effect on all companies, so with the figures I allude to above, you will still be able to make a comparison and answer the question whether or not a company could pay higher wages and still perform financially, which is whay I was arguing..:8

If indeed then pilot prices go up, what follows is an increase in supply (with the obvious lag due to necessary training etc.), and as conditions improve supply will move to meet demand in the medium term. In that sense aviation is like any other business, at least in the long term.

I would bet that quite a few pilots who got out of the game to make a better living money-wise would re-enter aviation once pay improves, thus dampening any shortage, and I do not think developments will be too dramatic. Of course as an aspiring pilot (coming into aviation out of passion, from a line of business that pays much much more) I am all for better pay and conditions :D, but I am not holding my breath :oh: for ace pay and T&Cs..

As per your ticket increase suggestion, I agree this might work :ok: given there is probably limited competition on a lot of the Rex routes. And with any company that isn't too small, if one really wants, one can find the dough for a wage increase, probably more cleverly in combination with a few well-placed T&C carrots :} to remove incentives to leave..

I have the funny feeling from what others have said here, that a lot of Rex's problems are indeed home-made and not necessarily only a reflection of an industry wide shortage (other airlines don't seem to have that many cancellations, and charter and freight are still running, right?), and an injection of focus on their issues with rosters, staffing levels and retention might just fix some things.. you never know, we might get one of the Rex management/admin insiders who seem to read these threads spill a few beans anonymously about what they're doing to improve things, that would be very enlightening, don't you think? Certainly would breathe some life and maybe even a factoid or two into this discussion :E

Plank...,

I'm all for management initiatives to better the lot of their employees, hense giving encouragement to stay.

Do you know what has been done in this area.....

ZIP!

The pilot crisis, because that is what it really is, hasn't even started. Remember what the REX chief of staff said, "1800 pilots required over the next 2 years".

You sound like a fairly intelligent person, therfore I asume you can count!

And the numbers just don't add up.

The real issue
 

Hi Does anyone know how much REX pays?

Evan ef Rex payed saim as Deeeejay aand Cunnas u turboplop pielots wood steel go jet, all that is happening is as eye hav 4seen:}:\:eek::}:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::E:E:E:E

Numbers.
 

A classic example of management thinking today.

These accountant managers never approach the problem from an operational point of view.

Its just numbers, they're not pax to be catered for, they're just numbers, they're not aircraft that can breakdown, just numbers, staff are not loyal, committed people, we're just numbers.

Numbers to appear in the bonus column.

If they're not careful those numbers won't be too flash.

You start in the very low 40's and it goes from there. You may earn more with allowances etc You would probably need 2 years in the industry to get the minimums roughly.

Now for the Rex cadets they are going to pay $80K for that job. Also they won't be able to be promoted so they will probably be on less than $50K for a long time. They also won't have ATPL subjects either I imagine.

If they wanted money they'd be better off doing the GA thing, as you would get more money working as a grade 1 instructor or flying twin charter

YAK, Great job of disguising your voice with that weird scottish/mexican/estonian accent, never thought of that!

The interesting thing is...you are wrong.

There is one turboprop operator who has had very stable numbers for donkeys years. The only thing that has changed is some middle manager got in and tried to get blood out of a stone by stuffing up the lifestyle. This co-incidentally happened with the current jet recruitment drive.

For pilots with families, there is more to the job than making lots of noise and getting paid 6 figures.

Reap etc.

See what happens with Easterns EBA. Lifestyle to go down the gurgler:yuk: Biggest mistake is 6 days & splitting 2 of 8. What lifestyle is that when others are gettin 11 or 12 off.
Wynsock yer right. To the blokes they NEED to hang on to (most senior & experienced) are doing it for lifestyle. Once it goes why stick around.
Rumor is 15-20 QL captains for career progression interviews in Nov.:ok:
Lifestyle,lifestyle.
.
.
.
.
Career progression ie Virgin/Dragon/Cathay/ and any airlines OUTSIDE QF group coz we're lepers to mainline management. Hardly anyone bothered applying 2 mainline this time round coz they know from years of experience theyre not likely to get thru. Gotta keep them double training costs down so why not use skills test as a tool to minimize migration.:yuk:
Reap what u sow Cockaroach. Good luck on yer northern Oz junket.:=



See Youse!

Rex Cadetship
 

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone else got ask to supply their HSC results over the last couple of days. I got asked last night for them and am wondering if they are starting to move things along.

outthere

outthere,

Affirm to that.

OK Boys & Girls,

It's probably no secret that I trust airline management as far as I could throw any of 'em.

Having said that, it is important that people make up their own minds. It is also vitally important that anyone contemplating a cadetship with REX, arm themselves with all the facts.

REX management have typically been short on detail. If I were about to embark on such a program, I would be asking these questions.

• How much will it cost me?
• How much will REX contribute to my training?
• Will it be a loan? If so how do I pay it back?
• How much will this cost me out of each fortnights pay?
• Exactly how long will it take from commencement of training to eventual check to line?
• At what stage will I be considered a REX employee?
• Will I be eligible for command?
• If I fail to reach proficiency standards along the way, will I still be liable to repay the debt if I were to fail the program?
• If after my check to line, I subsequently fail 2 checks in a row, and my services are terminated (yes it can and has happend), will I have to pay out the debt?

I'm sure that there would be more questions worth asking, but the essential thing is that you are completely satified the the process before commiting yourselves.

Don't place yourself in a position where you are put at a disadvantage.

outthere,

Yeah got ask to supply my results to....if there going solely on results i'm pretty sure i better start to look elsewhere:ugh:

Jeps