End Of Cabin Crew Seniority In Qf Long Haul?
 

The following newsletter on the FAAA website. Clearly Qantas want to get rid of the bid system. What do people think??
August 2007
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
JEPPESEN ROSTER SYSTEMS
We have been briefed by Cabin Crew Management and a project manager from Jeppesen about new software they are developing and evaluating for the construction of flight attendants rosters.
As you would no doubt be aware the current software that Qantas is using to produce Cabin Crew rosters is over 20 years old. It has significant limitations and often results in very poor quality rosters for even the most senior of crew. The development of the new software heralds the next generation of potential rostering systems and capabilities.
It is important to once again state the FAAA’s position; which we believe is also the position of our members. We have consistently stated that we believe that “choice” is paramount. We also have stated that a flight attendants length of service should also be taken into consideration in the construction of rosters. Our position on this has not changed.
We have also indicated to Qantas that any change at all away from the current “strict” seniority system is a matter for flight attendants to vote on and will not be departed from without considerable consultation and education of members.
I will list the sort of challenges that the Company needs to address with it employees in order to get them to agree to change the current system of work allocation. This list is not exhaustive but will give you some idea of the complexity of the system.
• Issues relating to partners needing to bid opposite each other for child care
• Issues of partners or friends wishing to fly together
• Issues of Commuters and the length and type of trips
• Issues related to part- time
• Issues related to Fatigue management
• Issues related to the ability to guarantee days off without using annual leave
• Issues related to general fairness and equity in a stagnant recruitment environment
These are just some of the challenges that our members face in trying to reconcile their home and work lives.
The Jeppesen software is capable of “replicating” the current system of work allocation in its entirety. However it is also capable of allowing crew to vary that system by agreement and vote. The extent of that variance is a matter for flight attendants. It could mean as little as caps on some trips or the ability to have greater levels of roster satisfaction with a seniority system still intact, but also taking into account some of the things I have dot pointed above.
I am writing this newsletter to you because the company will be discussing the Jeppessen software and capability at its upcoming Strategy Meetings.
It is important that you have a say and listen to the presentation. If you do choose to attend we suggest that you go ask as many questions as you need to, in order to understand the project and its capabilities.
At the end of the day, it’s a matter for flight attendants to determine via a vote. We have been and still are of the view that a flight attendants length of service should be important in the construction of rosters and the ability of all crew to exercise some level of choice and be satisfied to the highest extent possible.
The FAAA have only had an overview briefing ourselves and are not expert by any stretch of the imagination. Your questions should be directed to the managers holding the meetings rather than your own CCTM’s or CCM’s or the FAAA at this stage.
In order to ensure that consistent and accurate information is provided only the managers conducting the briefing should be discussing the software and its capabilities. The FAAA will comment further when the Company meetings have been completed.
We will update you when we have more information
Written by Steven Reed – President International Division
Authorised by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division

The End Of Seniority In Qf Long Haul
 

The End Of Seniority Bidding In Long Haul??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following newsletter on the FAAA website. Clearly Qantas want to get rid of the bid system. What do people think??August 2007
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
JEPPESEN ROSTER SYSTEMS
We have been briefed by Cabin Crew Management and a project manager from Jeppesen about new software they are developing and evaluating for the construction of flight attendants rosters.
As you would no doubt be aware the current software that Qantas is using to produce Cabin Crew rosters is over 20 years old. It has significant limitations and often results in very poor quality rosters for even the most senior of crew. The development of the new software heralds the next generation of potential rostering systems and capabilities.
It is important to once again state the FAAA’s position; which we believe is also the position of our members. We have consistently stated that we believe that “choice” is paramount. We also have stated that a flight attendants length of service should also be taken into consideration in the construction of rosters. Our position on this has not changed.
We have also indicated to Qantas that any change at all away from the current “strict” seniority system is a matter for flight attendants to vote on and will not be departed from without considerable consultation and education of members.
I will list the sort of challenges that the Company needs to address with it employees in order to get them to agree to change the current system of work allocation. This list is not exhaustive but will give you some idea of the complexity of the system.
• Issues relating to partners needing to bid opposite each other for child care
• Issues of partners or friends wishing to fly together
• Issues of Commuters and the length and type of trips
• Issues related to part- time
• Issues related to Fatigue management
• Issues related to the ability to guarantee days off without using annual leave
• Issues related to general fairness and equity in a stagnant recruitment environment
These are just some of the challenges that our members face in trying to reconcile their home and work lives.
The Jeppesen software is capable of “replicating” the current system of work allocation in its entirety. However it is also capable of allowing crew to vary that system by agreement and vote. The extent of that variance is a matter for flight attendants. It could mean as little as caps on some trips or the ability to have greater levels of roster satisfaction with a seniority system still intact, but also taking into account some of the things I have dot pointed above.
I am writing this newsletter to you because the company will be discussing the Jeppessen software and capability at its upcoming Strategy Meetings.
It is important that you have a say and listen to the presentation. If you do choose to attend we suggest that you go ask as many questions as you need to, in order to understand the project and its capabilities.
At the end of the day, it’s a matter for flight attendants to determine via a vote. We have been and still are of the view that a flight attendants length of service should be important in the construction of rosters and the ability of all crew to exercise some level of choice and be satisfied to the highest extent possible.
The FAAA have only had an overview briefing ourselves and are not expert by any stretch of the imagination. Your questions should be directed to the managers holding the meetings rather than your own CCTM’s or CCM’s or the FAAA at this stage.
In order to ensure that consistent and accurate information is provided only the managers conducting the briefing should be discussing the software and its capabilities. The FAAA will comment further when the Company meetings have been completed.
We will update you when we have more information
Written by Steven Reed – President International Division
Authorised by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division

Not On
 

i get less then half what i bid for however:yuk: some choice is better then none.:=
this thread should be combined with qf eba :ok:

I don't think management want to get rid of seniority bidding entirely.
Why would they invest in a new system that is capable of managing seniority bidding far more efficiently, if they don't want it at all?
I think they just want a system that can be as fair as possible to as many people as possible, while still retaining seniority bidding as the core.

I think it is only the most junior crew that get back to back JoBergs that want to get rid of seniority bidding totally.

Sounds like a win all round really if we can get this ancient system updated and still keep seniority.

Quote- "Sounds like a win all round really if we can get this ancient system updated and still keep seniority."

The devil is always in the detail but [strangely] I find myself agreeing with you.:ooh:

I may have missed something, but could someone please remind of the significance of this thread to the Professional Pilots, as in what PPRune was established for? I can generally avoid your topics by just not reading them, however, with a thread title as above one assumes it is about pilots. Would it be possible to get a specific FA section where you can have your whinges to your hearts content (same goes for the ginger beers, but at least their thread has a little interest to us piloting types)
Standing by for incoming stilettos and spanners.......

Eden99,
perhaps you ought to alter the title of this thread in order to not offend the precious.

QF seniority
 

My better half who is an ex TAA Hostess and now a S/H CSM (29 years) and who agrees that seniority is the best way to handle rostering, as we have all had to handle being junior in our jobs.

In my career, for a long time I was known as JB (junior boy) and now after 28 years have some authority in my career which is non aviation related.

Get over your junior status as you will have seniority one day.

To those ex cabin crew who have retired or taken VR and as you have had a career which will never be repeated due to new planes and rostering, please keep posting, as an experienced flight attendant's views and opinions will help forge the future ahead and let all know what you have achieved.

During a trip to PEK last year we were seated way down the back and as being sub load we found that the crew after a almost 12 hour flight were still friendly, courteous and awake which in my past career I couldn't do, and the Captain who was on a walk to the back of the plane recongnised my partner and stopped for a chat.

I had 28 years with an emergency service and think I have experienced many career ups and downs.

Remember to keep united to maintain your hard fought awards and as my union always said, you inherited these hard won conditions and you must pass them on to the next generation in a better state than when you got them.

Qantas is a big family so please keep looking after and your hard won conditions and especially look after each other.

Prior to meeting my lady I was and are still are an aviation fan and still sit at the viewing area at Tullamarine and watch the traffic, life doesn't get any better.

To finish up, PPRUNE is a great site and I log in a few times every day to keep up to date.

Nice post and wise words, QF A330. Thank you.

Never truer words spoken-

"Remember to keep united to maintain your hard fought awards and as my union always said, you inherited these hard won conditions and you must pass them on to the next generation in a better state than when you got them."

Ozdork
 

Is it just me or do other ppruners find the term 'ginger beers' extremely offensive?

No, it's just you................

No, just you :rolleyes:

And the manbags...

Ozdork, this lot were kicked out of the specific cabin crew forum for unseemly, obnoxious behaviour.

Unfortunately, it seems that out of all the cabin crew in the world, a certain element of the aussie scene were deemed the most offensive, all-round, and by default have been foisted upon us in D&G. Not sure what we did to deserve it.



Ref the topic, the straight seniority system is seen as encouraging career hostiehood. A rotating system, if that's what they have in mind, will reward the juniors once or twice a year with a top month bid, thereby discouraging, to some degree, the boilers from hanging around, which seems to be a big part of the plan.

Hope they at least bought you flowers before they ****** ***.

What type of system do QF mainline pilots use?

Is this not a straight seniority system?

Not a rotating one?

To any moderators reading this thread,if you want to see an obnoxious post then you would not have to go past Scottydoo!!!

He would like nothing more than to incite an argument and have the moderators close this thread or ban cabin Crew.

End Of Cabin Crew Seniority in Qf Long Haul?
 

Ummm, I thought a thread title with the words 'Cabin Crew' in it would have been a dead give away to its content....

:confused:

Agree 5678,

But with a second name-..........DORK.

What do you expect???:rolleyes:

On the "other" subject .........Scooby Doo. Best not to respond.

I'm off now to Oxford St, I hear there is a sale on Man Bags and High Heels at the Pink Boutique.

Do try to keep up, girls... :p

Careful What You Wish For?
 

Anything that is offered to Crew as being wonderful should be viewed as a Trojan horse.
This management has a habit of offering a lot and delivering zilch.
Dont be blind sided.This upcoming EBA is a watershed and therefore crucial to all our futures.
Always look at the broader implications and dont make decisions based on self interest.
I speak from experience.
A previous employer appealed to my greed and I succumbed. I paid the price to the extent that I had to leave.
I will never be that stupid again.

End Of Senior Cabin Crew In Qf Long Haul.

Now I am sure many travellers would vote for that!!!

MP.

Why Would They vote for that?
 

Fifteen Crew...all flying two years....little experience...young.
A brawl breaks out onboard...you are sitting 1A...are you going to sort it out as you see it escalate?
The only time you would get involved is when your Dom gets spilt by someone involved in the fracas.
Seniority is a recognition of accumulated experience and an ability to identify problems BEFORE they become problems.
If you have never seen a scorpion before how do identify it as being dangerous?
You Can't.
Someone who has experience might be able to assist.
You cant squeeze 50 years of experience into a 25 year old head.
Seniorty recognizes that.
Management despise seniority because those with experience tend to be less gullible and naive.
There are very few in the management of any large company who are honest with their employees and treat them with respect.
As in any society the older more senior tend to look after the younger more junior members....until they are experienced enough to look after themselves.
Order is required in any group/society
That order usually is determined by age and experience.
Would you let an 18 year old run your company?.
More importantly would you like an 18 year old telling you what to do?
The family unit is based on seniority.
Except,as in MPs case ..dad is senile and his 2 year old runs the show

Managers Perspective..

As usual you have it around the wrong way but I can tell you what the passengers WOULD definitely vote for.

That would be to get rid of management and board members who line their pockets while reducing the service and value the customer (Yes they are customers) get for their money.

As I said the other day,you are symptomatic of the management that pervades Australia.Within the next 20 years Australia will be lucky to have any manufacturing or production capability with the current leadership we are stuck with.

Denial is the fundamental principle of your doctrine.

When I first started the back to back Jobergs were all crewed by people with less than 2 years experience in the company due to seniority. It was very rare to see someone with more than about 5 years seniority on one of those trips.

Aeroplanes didn't fall out of the sky because of crew inexperience. And the crew inexperience you would have to say was a direct result of seniority.

DEFCON4;

So are you saying those destinations that are crewed back to back by the most junior of people because of seniority are a less safe than those destinations crewed by senior ones? Perhaps we should get some more senior ones to those destinations so they can be deemed safe again.

Clarification
 

It was not my attention to malign any crew member regardless of seniority.
I am sorry that you have chosen to perceive it in this manner.
You have taken four lines out of a twenty line post.
Do you have issue with the rest of it?
These misunderstandings and misconceptions will eventually be our undoing.
I was junior once and did plenty of JoBurgs...and still do them as I find the crews both happy and motivated.
I dont know how long you have been flying but it would have been a very rare event to have all crew...including both the CSM and CSS...flying less than two years.
In the military, no one goes into the field, without someone who has experience.... leading.
Planes fall out of the sky due to technical malfunctions or human error.
To even suggest that they do so due to junior crew you do yourself a great disservice.......not to mention an absolute distortion of my post.
Now ....how long do you intend to stay flying?
The decision you make regarding the seniority based work environment will not only have an affect on your future but also that of others.
Think carefully before you let emotion get in the way of an objective outcome

I agree in principle with DEFCON4's words but also want add another perspective to the argument. Both 'senior' and 'junior' crew need to strongly think about what they are willing to, or not to, change with the seniority based bidding system.

I am using absolutes in this description, but if 'junior' crew want to do away with the current system in its entirety, then DEFCON4 is right. What will be the effect on our future work environments?

'Junior' crews' frustrations stem from the stagnant recruitment environment, coupled with overseas basings and different airline groups negotiating for our traditional flying. These factors compromise their access to improved bidding outcomes.

For 'senior' crew not to recognise this and accept no changes, would only maintain the status quo in the short term, but ultimately weaken their chances of maintaining it in the long term as disatisfaction brewed.

We need to be respective of each set of wishes and concerns and work towards a conciliatory result. Hopefully this will allow us to control the agenda a little instead of being dictated to by QF.

For the record I have left QF long haul after 7 years of being stuck at the bottom of the pile. No chance to have a life, and in my perspective, there was no real chance of it ever improving.

My point is that if the senior people want to get the support of junior ones in maintaining the current system, they need to recognise that life is tough at the bottom. The old argument of 'you will be senior one day' has well and truly gone past its use by date with many. The other argument that little Johhny will be gone at the end of the year is also a frugile attempt at convincing people. So he gets voted out. How long do you think it will take things to improve? Rudd gets in and things will be different overnight? I think it will take years to change, even when they do get in to government.

When the London base opened, I like everyone hated it. However, at one point I did consider going up there for a change (about a year after it started), but was berated and called a scab by some crew for thinking of it. My point was that it is there now, and it is better to have Aussies crewing the flying rather than foreign nationals. The only positive about going up there would have been the better rostering (not being stuck with the leftovers like here) and a change in scenery. It still does not diminish the fact that the whole situation stinks, but by some going up there, perhaps less annual and long service may have been assigned because there would have been less long haul crew to share the given amount of flying available back here (ie less of a surpluss).

For the record, I ended up not going, but just because I considered the possibility I was given grief by some short sighted people. If no Australian crew went there, would it have been the end of the base? In my opinion No. Not at that stage after it had been going for a year or so.

The same goes for the NY issue. I did not like the fact that things changed like many, but given the choice of the shuttle being crewed by us or Kiwis I expressed my view that it should be crewed by us. Again the cause of ridicule from some. Just my point. It is not by any way saying I supported the whole concept of what was happening. You sometimes have to make choices you may not like simply because you may not like the alternative even more.

Now I work for a corporate jet charter company, still get to fly a couple of times a month, and do other roles. The pay is also similar and overall I am much happier. This allows me more time at home, flexibility in my life to spend time with my husband and to have children. You want everyone to fight for seniority to protect the mothers who need to be home for child care, but in doing so you are asking others to give up the possibility of being able to do the same themselves.

My whole point in wasting time posting on here now? I wish some of you people would realise that there is a growing silent minority who may just become a majority against the seniority system as it stands. If you wish to keep it, you will at least have to offer something to people who are disadvantaged by the system. Be it buckets that limit trips like the tech crew have, or perhaps sharing leave allocation so that once every few years you get a chance to have Christmas off. A small move in that direction will at least offer something for all. The senior can keep the bulk of their advantage, while the junior get something in return.

How many crew have joined the long haul seniority list in the last 5 years? And how many have started flying for QF (ie. bases, casuals, short haul)? What do you think the prospects in the view of junior crew really are? For years everyone has been told not to worry, you will be senior one day, but for most you can only go on what you see and the track record (ie reality) is not great.

If you want to remain united, it is time to show some sympathy towards those who suffer, not constantly berate them as whingers etc. The constant bickering and name calling does nothing but alienate people more. There are always going to be people with a different point of view, and just because you don't agree with them does not make either of you correct.

Otherwise, more junior crew will continue to leave (like myself) further diluting the remaining long haul seniority and numbers. Sad this is happening, but I feel it will only get worse if things don't change.

Anyhow, good luck to you with all of it, just try and fight it united with everyones support rather than fighting each other which to some extent seems to be happening now. Life has changed for me now, so whichever way it goes is not my problem. Perhaps that is why I can stick my head out of the sand and say what many are thinking but are too scared to say in public. Until people come to the realisation that people think like this, the chances of a united fight diminish.

The Alternative To Seniority
 

Everyone complains about seniority but no one offers a viable alternative.
I have been flying 25 years and have been a CSS for 20 of those years.I have
had little or no control over my life for most of that time.I knew what I was getting into when I obtained promotion.
My wife flies and we have kids.Its been a juggling act but we have managed.The time we have with our kids is far greater than those who work 9 to 5.The destinations are immaterial.Let me tell you JoBurgs are good trips monetarily.
In the airline industry individuals are preoccupied with seniority.I got over it years ago and am happier because of it.
I go to work to earn the bucks and pay the bills.Everything else is secondary.
In any game ,find out what the rules are and make them work for you.
If you cant, like White Pointer,you have a choice

sounds a reasonable argument
 

but there were other measures qf management could have done so far to improve the system. instant online trip swap comes to mind. this would give junior and senior f/a's the chance to adjust their lives if rosters dont work out. and i dont mean just in one base. it should be done network wide. i believe this would also lift productivity.
this has been mentioned to management on many occassions from various groups. but as usual no one is game enough to make a decision to implement it. needs several committies to assess, reassess, write several business plans, reassess,put up for a vote, run several trials, reassess and depending on the inhouse politicial wind (reassess again) you may get it by late 2030.:rolleyes:
i am not in a disimilar position then S6, just less senority. i have been going backwards for years now. can i see any improvments if the bidding system goes? i am yet to be convinced.

With every story there are two sides.

White pointer tells us to compromise and think of the junior crew and that career progression is a dead duck.

Yet the company are about to get a huge number of aircraft which will require a corresponding increase in crew.

What will happen with the current junior crew in regards to the newly hired crew.Will they then say OK lets forget about seniority and be fair to the 'new junior' crew.....I doubt it.

White Pointer...During the debate about the New York slip the company replaced a number of Australian crew before the vote was taken.

This was obviously a scare tactic and was typical of how the company regards cabin crew.

White Pointer..You made the point that a NO vote would have us lose jobs to the Kiwis and only a YES vote would stop it.

Well,what happened..the slip did not get back in and the kiwi's still did the job.

Australian Cabin Crew did not even get a thanks for trying to improve flexibility.

So what did voting YES get you?....Nothing..Squat..Zilch...

The company during SARS asked us to accept a reduction in crew to help out.

Did the company ever give the crew member back...NO

This seniority issue comes up again simply because the company wants crew to accept the new bid system.The same usual people who suggest we give in are back in town waving the seniority flag yet again.

As far as the LHR base is concerned most of us agree that the basic tenet was to lower or reduce the conditions of Australian based crew.

You only have to look at what LHR trips Australian crews get and the reduced slip and what trips and slips the LHR based crew get.

As far as Australian crew going up there it is a little like collaborating with the enemy.You are helping them out in reducing the conditions of Australian crew.

You can stick your head in the sand and say but I am only one person but in the end everyone who goes up there helps the company out.

The company has never been interested in helping crew out by improving the bid system.The reserve system and demand days are a joke.

You have to understand that any new system will be like a new company super scheme.It will never be as good for the employees as the previous plan because if it was the company would not have wanted it.

Look at all ways to become more cost effective but be wary of any new bid or work system.

Even the surrender monkeys who voted YES to get rid of the 75% system we used to have before bidding were astounded at the difference between what the company told them and what the company did after the new system was introduced.

Lowerlobe, are you saying if we voted no to the NY shuttle we would be back slipping there and better off? And if no Australian ventured up to London the base would be dead and buried?

White pointer..It was you who said we have to vote YES because it would protect our jobs...here is your quote

Well,the vote was YES and did the slip come back?....NO

Did the company stop using AKL crews ..NO,they have used them on and off and the vote achieved nothing ......for crew that is.

I never said that not going to LHR would close the base....

My idea of not going to LHR is called having principles.

To show how the company acts and thinks of Australian crew look at 'THE LHR trip that we have and what trips and slips the LHR base have.

I find it interesting that you only show up when something big is on the horizon and the company has a lot at stake.

Positive Changes?
 

When I started flying being a "steward"meant being part of a boys club that was run by a bunch of old bull elephants born in the 40s.
I hated my first few years of flying.
Seniority determined the meal choice you had,your time off,your work position and your position in the Q when checking into a hotel.
If the Chief or FSD said drinks were in his room your had to turn up.If you didnt they would ring your room.If you werent there you were questioned the next day.Most of these people were borderline alcoholics.
The system thankfully has broken down over the years.
The bid system has never been fixed because the company didnt want it fixed.
The software was flawed when it was introduced in 88.It delivers poor quality rosters for everybody.It produces too many cost inefficient low lines.
Everybody is unhappy with it.So the promise of something new gets everyone excited.
We were promised a lot when the bid system was introduced but very little if any of it was implemented.
We gave up 25% of our standown for this.A minority of crew agreed to its introduction and the rest were forced to accept it.
Previously crew had a choice to be on the "married roster" or "short division" to acommodate family life.All that disappeared.
Just be very careful about what you intend to give up.
I have just over a year of accumulated sick leave.If I get done over by a"new" system I will burn every day of it to maintain a balance between my home life and worklife.
Management always has a two tiered agenda.
Just ask the domestics about their last EBA.
KY was promised but never supplied .
They were told it wouldnt hurt...guess what?..it bloody well did!!
Get your hands on the KY before you accept anything from these swine.
Qantas=Animal Farm

for the record
 

the original bid system in 88 was working well. too well for the company. so they start fiddeling with the system. years later and some 35+ adjustments the bid system is truly stuffed. the jeppeson bid system is actually a senority based bidding system where you can put as many conditions in as you like. so whatever the outcome of the next eba it can all be accomandated. it also has a transperency to it which of course one can assume will be hidden from cabin crew. remember, when we had open time bids displayed and one could see who else bidded for the trip. didn't last long,did it? lets see what the offer is but as mentioned here it is never going to be better.
S6 you are kind to call most of the old guys alcoholics (not nice). the curretn system does not deliver poor quality rosters for everyone. the top 30% seem to be very happy. unfortunatly that does not apply to me.:sad:

Lowerlobe,

You can go back years and get quotes and twist them whichever way you wish. And no stage did I advocate that by accepting Yes to the NY vote we would be getting our slips back. It would just keep us at least flying there. At the time you were advocating that we had to vote NO to get the NY slip back. Can you explain how this would have worked? The quote you posted was me asking you how by voting NO you were so sure we would be again slipping in NY.

And just for the record, I have only visited this a few times. Seems the odd occassion I look the likes of yourself have given QF crew a great reputation by getting them banned and it takes a lot of us ages to find where things have moved since then.

Anyhow, enough wasting my time with this. Got a life to get to. Will see you back in another year or two maybe.

Just For The Record
 

Bid Runs this year have generated enormous numbers of demand days.
Last BP252 the number one CSS the number one CSM and the number one BFA received corrupted rosters.
Piss eveybody off so that they will embrace the "new" system.
Psst..Lesley can I have my KY now?
BTW...shouldnt that be WhitePointer(S)...plural?

As Mrpaxing and surfside mentioned the current system is far from perfect and it never hurts to look at new systems.

However,as I said with company super schemes the new plan or bid system will rarely be better than the current one.Otherwise the company would have no interest in it.

You can try to have safeguards in place and I guess their success depends on the industrial situation and that depends on who is in Government.

As I said I know of 2 girls who voted for the bid system in 88 and just after that when we were turned around on a trip they said in disbelief "But the company said they would never do this"...

If there is a moral to be learned from that is that the company has no morals.

Since this is a pilot network, why don't you people take your arguments over here:


http://www.cabincrew.com/ccnetwork/


There is a specific section for Australian and New Zealand cabin crew.

Interesting to read on this forum that shorthaul claim to be getting their hands on the A380.

Even better, any reason your union won't set up a specific bulletin board for company specific issues like Qrewroom is for the pilots? At least some things can be discussed that do not (and should not) end up in the public domain. It can only be read and contributed to by those who are authorised to do so by the administrators (ie. company employees).

bazzamundi
Ground Engineers are free to post on here ... we are flight crew so we should be able to as well.
Someone said juniors whinge but make no suggestions to the seniority system, well here are some:-
> Open time to be awarded in reverse seniority;
> Dump system like short haul
> Holidays on rotation
> Seniority on rotation
> Bids for trip days away only, rather than destination (Lifestyle bidding ie ' want a certain type of trip' rather than 'this specific trip' )
> Days off bids only
> Equal Share system for destinations
All can be accomplished, with the new Jepp system, all are options available.... all are compromises, but the senior FAAA execs have already said they want to have the same system !!
And as others have said, the growing discontent is growing, growing and growing. the seniors will lose EVERYTHING if they wont compromise ... the juiniors have absoloutely nothing to lose, as we have nothing already.
Juniors will be happy to compromise, rather than take the seniority system down, but we will take it down if needed !

We Have Nothing?
 

We all get paid....thats why we have a fulltime job and go to work.
Any 9 to 5 person would consider this a lot of bleeting by precious QF flight attendants.
There are FAs who earn more than CSMs and they have flying less than 10 years.
The crew who have nothing are the AKL based crew.
These poor devils are treated like fodder...its an absolute disgrace.
An allocated roster is what the company is looking at.
No control over your life whatsoever.

Bazzamundi.....It's time you put yourself to good use and do some real work which suits your true job description :E

www.sta.nsw.gov.au/jobs/

LOL
 

Shaul, well done:D:D:D
cart elevator, a little reminder management tried to change the senority system with the domestics and it failed big time.