Qantas Start Dates
 

With all the talk of the pilot shortage, the fact remains that Qantas are still not recruiting, and have not done so since Nov 05. Are they really going to recruit this year, and will it be into mainline?

Why the wait? Is it due to the impending buy out, or some other reason? Anyone with any inside info?

Qantas are not recruiting, but Jetstar is. As unpallatable as it is for many people don't put all your eggs in an evaporating basket. Even if you were to get into mainline the progression will be very slow.

First course pencilled in for August

Consider almost 100 longhaul pilots and engineers are over 58 and the super rules make it very attractive to resign in July. Sure they can go at 65 if they like but why risk a change of government changing things. This includes almost 50 744 Captains:D

Had quotes from a few managers refering to recruitment. In short yes they will recruit this year however they might not be employed under the current EBA.....ie AWA's. A second officer meeting last year with the Mainline boss suggested this.....I suppose will have to wait and see with multiple EBA's up for negotiation it will certainly be interesting. It's such a shame Aussie pilots who aspire to fly for our national carrier who slug it out, make it through the door to get this s.it thrown in their face.

17 months after being told I made it to the competitive pile, I got a phone call from pilot recruitment asking if i would still like to be considered, possibly towards the second half of the year. Would have to negotiate some form of "re-evaluation", ie another interview.

Staying put where I am but wish anyone else that got the call all the very best. Good luck.

I have to say unless the airlines in this country appreciate the personnel that it has available and begins to reward them, and I don't mean financially, then they have themselves to blame. Many young aviators who aspire for a career that is sustainable will start to take up the Cathays, Dragonairs, and Emirates of the world, and when the QF and J* and VB CEOs go "Where'd they go!" and all these aeroplanes they planned on utilising to pay off their debt(in the QF Group case) can't be crewed they will then take notice. Tell your sons and daughters to become a chartered accountant or a Merchant banker so they can buy you an aeroplane. Where is the succession planning in all this? :ugh:

First courses for QF in July and yes some "new arrangement" to be revealed. This recruitment will happen regardless of the buyout. Maybe the career progression should be pointed out at the front door.
No word on detail, no progress on EBA's I am led to believe. All the management have dollars signs running through their heads and can't concentrate.:cool:

Very interested in the new arrangement and what it entails.
Considering that I laid down cash for psych and skills testing and a medical under the guise of being employed under current T&Cs, me thinks it is a tad disgusting that they would attempt to change the deal on people already processed. But considering the current BS going on it is not surprising. More info REQ
Shmoo

Can someone please explain to me in simple trems (I am only a pilot after all and apparently not worth much in the way of wages, T&C's etc) why it is that Q require you to undergo a "re-evaluation" after a period of 17 months. Is your whole psyche liable to change in that timeframe? Do you lose the ability to work out unfolded cubes? If Q thought you were good at jumping through hoops the first time why should they require you to do it again. Maybe someone with a HR background can shed some light on this. I think its disturbing that they should say "Congratulations, you might have a job but that's not guaranteed", keep you in the dark for a year and a half with no indication of future employment. Then when the wheels of the big corporate machine start rolling again expect you to ask "how high?" when they say jump. At least CX tell you that you have a job after completeing their induction process.

Thanks for the replies - I was just wondering if there was anybody out there that had been through the selection process lately and given any indication of a likely progression date? Or has anybody else on the hold file been called to do this "re evaluation"?

12 per month required from late April. Recruiting planned to last for at least a year.

I'd have to ask why you would bother joining Qantas, they'll probably push you into J* ops on bugger all bucks or as our CP stated "you can expect to be a S/O for a third of your career, F/O for a third and Captain for a third". Say you join at 26, then expect to be a S/O for 13 years, then F/O for 13 years, according to the Qantas Chief Pilots that is.

Alternately, join Dragon and you can still expect command in less than 10 years even considering recruitment is settling down. Join Tiger when they start, get on the ground floor and take the express train or even try Cathay Oz based. There are hundreds of options nowdays. Qantas still lives in the dark ages thinking they can treat people like the Royal British Navy is in charge and they are the only show in town. Don't walk away from this mob..... RUN.:\ :\ :\

I find the biggest problem facing Qantas pilots, is a lack of undertsanding where you future is going. If you join Emirates, or Cathay you know the expansion plans of these airlines, they have a good product and a vision for where they want their airline to be. Sure, their management play hard ball too, but at least they believe in their product. In Qantas we have this stupid two brand concept, with jetstar destroying mainline. We are constantly told that future expansion depends on where the growth is. We are told lies by management, ie if you vote up this EBA you will be included in the Jetstar process. This is all about maintaining the image the Qantas is operating normally while they grow a substandard product. I would advise anyone contemplating a job (i was going to say career but that doesn't exist now) with Qantas to stay well clear. Especially if employment is on an AWA. Relations between management and pilots is at an all time low and heading south. The best option is Cathay/Dragonair. No luck there, then pay for your endorsement with Virgin, Jetstar, Tiger etc, get quality experience quickly and then head O/S. You will achieve a must better career that way than trying to exist in the unhealthy environment Qantas has become. Remember with the number of flying jobs coming up in Australia over the next few years the ball is in your court, not the Airlines anymore.

Just an additional thought; A career as a QF second officer is just that, you are restricting your available career opportunities to QF, and are reliant on QF (that not a situation I like to be in). Not many airlines consider SO time useful. Emirates won't consider SO time towards the requirement of 2000 hours multi crew jet. Your aim is to get that airline job asap and to quickly get the experience to make yourself employable elsewhere if the sky caves in in your current airline. And how many times have we heard Dixon say that QF is in for tough times.

Don't hold your breath with mainline. If it's the airline you think it is.....it's not. So little transparency, no accountability for poor decisions and an organisation that is in a state of paralysis. In the mean time go and get an endorsement get some time...anywhere and then hopefully when all the .hit has been played out and some sense returns then hold your breath. There are quite a few who, if not are looking over the fence have actually gone over. Patience is required....but in the seat of another airline.

Don't hold your breath with mainline. If it's the airline you think it is.....it's not. So little transparency, no accountability for poor decisions and an organisation that is in a state of paralysis. In the mean time go and get an endorsement get some time...anywhere and then hopefully when all the .hit has been played out and some sense returns then hold your breath. There are quite a few who, if not are looking over the fence have actually gone over. Patience is required....but in the seat of another airline.

If you are offered a start date, ensure before you turn up on Day One you know EXACTLY what terms and conditions you are being employed under. Is it under the Currrent Certified Agreement? QF have a nasty habit of not giving out information regarding your employment contract until you actually turn up. For example they will not tell you which aircraft you have been assigned to until you turn up on Day one. The remuneration involved here is very significant - and they know it. The term "B -Scale" is getting thrown around. Sorry QF already has one - it is called starting on anything other than the 747 -400!

Mr Wooby has hit the nail on the head. As a QF mainline pilot the information regarding career progression lies some where between poor and non-existant. This I believe, is a major reason for the very poor morale amongst the pilot body right now.

Questions regarding promotion, career progression and employment contract should definitely be asked by anyone attending an interview for the upcoming recruitment program.

Good Luck!

Surely 747-300 engineer panel time is worth something?:rolleyes:

ruprecht.

Any truth to the rumour that a number of Qantas 767 and A330 FOs are leaving QF to start employment with Cathay as Sydney based A330 FOs ?

No!
Happy to spill honest beans but this is no so I believe? Only possibly 4 A330 F/O's are MIA over the last 3 years, only one is known to have left, boy from Wagga Wagga. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Hugh Gordon:

Rumour appears to be true.

Jeez Guys......

I dont know who is worth, Dixon or you blokes on pprune.....the doom and gloom and sky is falling mentality of dixon has caught on!!!

Statements such as there is no longer a career in QF????....what the???
You must be kidding!
I dont pretend to the fact that things are changing but change is inevitable and not necessarily all bad.
For those of you that aspire to be Qantas Pilots then dont be completely consumed nor convinced by some of the comments found on this forum.

And before someone accuses me, i am happy to be labelled naive...time will tell....but for now i'm happy with my lot in life....and for those of you out there aspiring for this gig...personally for me, its been well worth ALL the sacrifices.

Advice : Sometimes you have to take a moment and smell the roses.....EVEN in GA.

Caught up with a mate in the training dept the other day and he seems to be of the impression that there will be new recruits and courses from August on wards.

Good luck to all.

HD.

NURSE
 

They may well be on wards as some of us can't even get on aircraft.

Will they be doctors or nurses?:hmm: :hmm:

Thanks mudskipper...

onwards is what i meant.
now back to those roses.

HD.

Strong rumour is that new recruits will be put onto an individual contract with no more than $70K per year as an S/O (which could be years of your career at the current rate) and pay for your own endorsement. Obviously covergence with Jetstar and Virgin will be the excuse. Can't have S/O's in QF being paid more than F/O's in Jetstar.

Even Jetstar and Virgin will look like better prospects than joining Qantas if this comes true.

Bazzamundi,
It would appear you know very little about how our EBA works, or industrial matters at all for that matter.

re: career at QF.
I, too, am one who has commenced 'looking'. But that is all at this stage. There are still a sh1tload of jets coming, with many, many crews required. It is all just a game people, that hopefully our union will learn to play a little better. As I read somewhere else - "the grass is always greener isn't it? Oh except in Dubai where there is none........"
Pretty much sums it up for me.
M

I would love to know how it works under our Certified Agreement. Point is that certain management types have not been shy in promoting this information. Perhaps they have some Workchoices law they can play under? I don't know, but it is concerning that it may happen. I was also present over 12 months back at one of the flight crew briefings when it was mentioned directly by a senior management person.

If they cannot get this through, then what about the Singapore base when recruiting begins? Is this back on the agenda?

As someone mentioned above, if offered a start date, be sure to ask what the conditions are and not just turn up on day one to find some nasty surprises.

Also heard rumours of courses in Aug, two courses pencilled in. Unfortunatly for all the guys on the holdfile you will probably find they will be cadets coming back from work placement.

. . . yes but the aircraft on order are replacements for existing airframes.
 

There are no new routes in the pipeline or increased frequencies for existing routes. So therefore, how do the new aircraft translate into promotional prospects for existing mainline guys? Why won't the new aircraft be flown by jetstar crew?

have any cadets had the call for start dates yet??

word is it may be as early as April?

the hold up is due to the A380 delay.

Thanks for all the replies. Just wondering how many cadets ( and therefore courses ) will be starting before they churn through the Direct Entry Hold File?

August start. Prob 2 courses of cadets.

All very quiet - has anybody out there got any idea when cadet courses and then direct entry courses will start - and how many there will roughly be? Can we assume that there will be only 2 courses of cadets, then on to direct entry?
As well, how would AWAs work amongst 2000 or so pilots - an administrative nightmare I think - surely it is easier to downgrade the T+Cs on the EBA?
Much uncertanty with this company at the moment!

Got the call the other day to see if I was still interested, quite surprised really, but now that I’m overseas :{ flying for another carrier:) I’m torn as to what to do if the t+c's are drastically changed from the current, it would be great to come home but.....
Does anyone have any info on what the changes might be, ballpark salary etc?
I’m not looking for Qantas sledging, just the facts, (trust me the airline I fly for isn’t what it used to be either) and being away from home I don't hear too much news,
Thanks in advance guys
wimpy

(sorry, I suppose this should be in 'questions', but it seemed applicable to this thread)

Jeez Louise
 

Scarlet, things aren't that bad.

Understand that those who post on these forums are generally "looking" anyway. In any organisation there will be people who think the grass is always greener somwhere else. Some of those have left, and they may find greener pastures, or they may not. Everyone is different.

QF is in a little turmoil, yes. Is my job different now than ten years ago? Yes, but does that make it a bad job? No way. I still love doing what I do and I work with some great people. I look forward to going to work each and every day. Others cannot say this, whether they be in aviation or not.

My future as an FO is still pretty reasonable. I earn more than a Jetstar Captain, and no, I'm not on the 744. Security? Less than before, but still good. People will always want to fly. I don't live in a crappy locale like honkers or the desert. I'm in Oz, I live near my family and freinds, I have a good salary and future, I'm still reasonably respected in my community, and most of all, I'm happy.

Don't let all of these doom sayers deter you. Make your decision based on what is most important - you and your family.

Good luck, mate!

August course of cadets hey, In one way I am so happy, get them out of all the companies they are taking jobs in that they are subsidizing, and but it is sad really, I was hoping that they would have been placed in J*, you know, What goes around comes around.:=

Ejector,

Very interesting that you see a position in Jetstar as some sort of 'payback' for being a cadet. Im sure that there are plenty that would be absolutely stoked to be employed by J* domestic or international.
And just to clear one thing up, once the cadets currently in the regionals are employed by QF, their positions are filled by the next group of cadets.
One way to look at though, is that while the cadets being placed at the regionals are filling jobs that would otherwise be filled by experienced GA guys, it means that they are not filling the seat of a 400 or a 380. Someone has to, and it might as well be you.

Best of luck :ok:

Thanks for clearing that up ejector, I thought that JT was singing about Brittney or Cameron but now I know he is talking about Qantas Cadets:rolleyes:

It's also more than likely that the course or two after August will be predominantly cadets too, just FYI.

After years of no recruitment there are more than 2 courses of cadets waiting to be placed with mainline. Good for those who want a regional job, not good for those on the holdfile.

i think recruiting know more than they are letting on. They are getting x-rays and pre-mature updates from some on the hold file, why would they do this if the first few courses are cadets.
Some hold file movement is about to go down, this i am sure. How much is anyones guess.

Is there any word on what courses are due to happen, cadets or otherwise? 744, 330 or 380??