perth qantas engineering
 

all is very quiet over there whats going on??

They do there work, we get on with operations..........

It runs smoothly

Looks like things in Perth may be about to come to a head for the LAME's. I wish them all the best but, despite the union's best intentions, they should tread carefully here if the following article is to be believed.





ABC Online

Qantas takes legal action against aircraft engineer union. 22/03/2007. ABC News Online

[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems.../s1879224.htm]


Last Update: Thursday, March 22, 2007. 9:05pm (AEDT)
Qantas takes legal action against aircraft engineer union
Qantas is taking legal action against the union representing flight engineers at Perth airport in a dispute over safe working conditions.

Qantas says the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association is acting illegally by telling its 80 Perth members to work in pairs rather than alone.

The association says it took the action because a change in roster has caused a shortage of engineers on each shift, leaving no one to answer emergency calls if there is an accident on the tarmac.

The Association's federal secretary, Stephen Purvinas, says the safety of its members is at risk.

"Quite often we see broken legs and so on, if someone slips over, we really need that emergency channel there in case one of our members is in that situation," he said.

The two parties will appear at the Federal Industrial Relations Commission tomorrow.

If this is real then no wonder your jobs get outsourced. This stuff went out with the ark.........

1DC
 

Put yourself in their shoes old mate and you might have a completely different perspective.
Their local manager presents himself as nothing short of a boofhead and has been recently in all sorts of strife with the company and the troops for behavioural faux pas'.:eek:
Secondly the General Manager who openly admits he has very little appreciation of the operational details of the areas he manages and "does not need to have one" is passing judgement and imposing rostering arrangements on the guys purely just to make the bottom line (read achieve his bonus) look better at the detriment of not only the working conditions and morale of the PER engineers but ultimately the entire Line Maintenance operation around the country, with PER being used a the "test case" or thin end of the wedge so to speak for him to achieve his ultimate goal (re-read achieve his bonus). :yuk:

This guy has a strong recent history of outsourcing for no great benefit to the company (take Jet Turbine Services for example)!!!:D

I'm sure you pilot typies would be up in arms if you had this sort ****e being rammed down your throats with little assistance from the current workplace regulations.:ok:

Bumpfoh this kind of action only highlights the old fashioned militancy which sets most of the public against you and helps the management's case.Much better to fight them with the facts..

What do Jetstar bill QF Perth for turnarounds re engineering, baggage, check in etc? Observed 8 ground crew "SERVICING" an A320 on a stand off bay during our turnaround whilst parked on bay 14. One of eight wearing a Jetstar uniform.

Re: 'the old fashioned militancy which sets most of the public against you and helps the management's case.'

and 'THey will catch up with the rest of Australia eventually.'

I think we will see what most of the public thinks about old fashioned militancy when the federal election is held. Maybe it will indicate that it's the rest of Australia that needs to catch up with the port of Perth...

Ahhhhh we have some white collar trolls in this thread.

The blokes in Perth want a fair go.

Qantas managment currently have a policy of shafting their employees through inapropriate rostering T&C's. Absolutely NO consideration given to employees personal lives whatsoever. It all comes down to saving every last dollar they can by avoiding shift penalties, allowances etc. Not fair. (Considering the obscene renumeration that Dixon & Co. keep recieving, not to mention the bonuses managers recieve for implimenting the above).

If Managment won't play fair, what are the employees to do?? Roll over and take it?? No. They take the action you see in Perth.

You got that part of the quote right. Qantas are being quite militant towards their employees, however it is the Liberal party that has seen to this happening.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Pilots are blue collar labour?

LAMEs wear white shirts, as do pilots.

I suppose "Blue collar" refers to someone that actually does something productive, so yes, I guess pilots in a sense are blue collar.

Pilots like to think of themselves as skygods but really they are just part of the hired help the same as LAMES, Hosties, bagchuckers and everyone else(they just get paid more, and rightly so!!)

But definately blue collar!!

Just to keep this post on track- How would a pilot like it if when he made a radio call there was no one there to answer him or be available for emergency support??

Maybe down the track QF cost cutting could include only having 2 pilot crews for long haul flights and only 1 pilot on the flight deck during cruise (not much really happens anyway, really...................c'mon be honest).

I don't seriously advocate this but it is something people should consider before they vilify LAMES working one out on the tarmac trying to keep old aeroplanes flying to a very tight schedule with very little in the way of support.

Maybe, just maybe, you might consider the option of working in pairs until you were confident that if you needed some emergency support for yourself (or the aircraft) that it would be available with a simple radio call.

I thought the action in Perth was safety related.

uhhhhh because as far as I know, not everyone that flies Business class is a pilot.

Pilots are productive, so they are blue collar. A white collar worker doesn't really do any physically orientated work, rather, they facilitate blue collars.

The fact of the matter here, aside from all that, is that employees are fed up with being pushed around by militant management. Qantas keeps crying poor when in fact, they are doing quite well thank you very much. First 9/11, then SARS, then oil prices. Qantas excelled whilst other airlines fell. Staff took a pay freeze. It was not JUST Dixon that got us through the "hard times", it was every employee.

So it is an insult to employees when they are being bullied and pushed around harder than ever, whilst those at the top pat themselves on the back with wads of $100 notes.

Is it justified? Depends on the shirt you wear! White or blue. (metaphorically speaking).

Employees are fed up. They are leaving at a rate higher than ever. Will this hurt Qantas? Probably not. All the more justification to ship jobs overseas. When there is nobody left to fill the vacancies, they will pull out the old sob story

"We just can't attract people to the industry".

Correct.... you can't attract half decent employees if you are not willing to pay them fairly and look after them.

Simple as that.

If you wear a "blue shirt", it's bad news. If you wear a "white shirt", here comes another bonus!

Sooooo, is it a safety issue or not?

As far as I can see... yes. it's a safety issue.

.... and we all know safety is the number one priority at Qantas. I can't understand why any manager would have a problem with this.

No Sar No Detail No Brains
 

NO SAR NO DEATAIL NO BRAINS OF COURSE IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE, AN ENGINEER WORKING ON HIS OWN WITH NO RADIO BACKUP DUE TO COMPANY CUTBACKS.wORKING ALONE WITH 200 TONS OF AEROPLANE, 3000 PSI OF HYDRAULICS, AND VOLUMES OF PNEUMATICS AND FUEL IS DANGEROUS. i ASSSUME YOU'RE ARE A PILOT?
I NEVER SEE YOU GUYS WORKING ALONE, YOU CAN'T EVEN MAKE IT TO THE AEROPLANE ON TIME WITHOUTHALF THE COMPANY HELPING TO GET YOU THERE.

I really don't see how this is turning into a battle between pilots and engineers.

The above post would make sense was it not for the dig at pilots! They are being bullied just as much as the rest of us.

BHMV
 

Precisely my point old mate.:ok: :ok:

No not a pilot. My aim was to drag the thread back to reality and show that it is not industrial action aimed at bringing down the government or Qantas.
It is not about what colour shirt you wear. It is about safety.
I think I succeeded, almost.

A "Health and Safety issue" as we would say in Pomland ..:)

"i ASSSUME YOU'RE ARE A PILOT?
I NEVER SEE YOU GUYS WORKING ALONE, YOU CAN'T EVEN MAKE IT TO THE AEROPLANE ON TIME WITHOUTHALF THE COMPANY HELPING TO GET YOU THERE."
Huh! As a pilot, I am curious as to what this statement means? I walk through the terminal, and I walk on to the aircraft. Nobody escorts me, nobody pulls any strings for me, I line up at security, just like everyone else. I'm would not despute that there are lots of people helping me get the aircraft away on time, but nobody helps me get to the aircraft. Maybe your words were wrong, but mate, what have you got against pilots?

Apology
 

Apology to all, that was my first reply, and not proud of it.
No Sar No details somehow pressed my button with his "Soooo is it a safety issue" , and now all of a sudden he seems to agree that it is ? ? ? ?
In the passed 6 months we have had several serious injuries to engineers working alone on the ramp, it is a very dangerous work environment.
In over 20 years of turnarounds overall I find pilots very ignorant to what goes on b4 they get to the aircraft, hence my comment to No Sars that he must be a pilot. Apologies to all for that comment.

Donagin, you need to put my post into context.

Context?
 

What is it you don't understand No Sars?

It's not me that doesn't understand.
The issue IS about safety.
Other posters dragged it into being an industrial dispute.
Others then tried to seperate it into white collar/blue collar debate.
I then put it back on the agenda as being a safety issue.
YOU then took the wrong end of the stick and gave it a good shake.
That is why I said put my post into context.

I thought the new corporate mission statement at Qantas was
"Profitability ,before Safety, before Schedule!":ok:

Safety
 

G'day No SARS
I think we all know there is a lot going on in Perth, and safety is just one issue, and a very important one at that.
Brgds

I dont have a collar let alone a coloured collar, I think its pathetic...
I am a pilot in QF and I really believe there is a problem with idiots srewing their hard workers down to the minimum, No matter what anyone thinks, Engineers are the backbone of QF, yeah I might be a shin bone but hey thats not going to support all the weight?? Engineers are the backbone, lets face it, its a fact. I am very concerned about the dramas with the engineering staff, after all they are what makes QF such a safe airline. I am really concerned when issues such as this come up. PH engineers should voice their right, especially when safety is an issue! :ok:

It's Pathetic
 

Well said A of A QF Engineering is run by accountants who have no idea about aircraft maintenance. They are all just bean counters who have cut the guts out of engineering.
If there was an alternative MRO in Oz QF would be losing engineers in droves.
We all try to be professional, but nobody gives a sh#t anymore. Morale is thru the floor.
As is the case with most departments we have endured years of EBA's that don't keep up with the CPI, while QF wastes millions on Strategy maps, Part Smart and eQ computer programs which are all dismal failures.
Engineering management have no ideas so they ask the troops to self shaft themselves, and when they refuse you get what has happened in Perth and now Melbourne.
God help us all

And apparently the Sydney precinct review is going to be scrapped.
How much did it cost to get the consultants in from england to oversee that project?

Really, scrapped. Heard only last week that redundancies were to be offered in April to get 200 LAME's to go for the merging etc. to happen.

That's a co incidence!!

Yesterday I got an email from resume.domain who were advertising for "Heavy Jet LAMES" around December 2007.

The reply was:

" Re your application for the Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer roles.

Our client has advised us that at this stage their contract has been postponed indefinately, should these circumstances change we will be sure to be in touch.

Thank you for application and your patience, we trust and hope that you understand that this is beyond our control. "

It looks like QF LAMES get a reprieve until they can concoct their next cost cutting masterplan.

Good luck all!!

Qantas Engineering
 

I say give them nothing. Don't negotiate. Let the so called expert management sort everything out. We all know they aren't worth a pinch of :mad: ****:mad: They have no idea and are hopong engineers will sort it out as they always do. It's time they took responsibility for there actions and fall on there swords. If 'M' and 'D.C.' think they can := fcuk with the engineering grouop they have another thing coming. Will c u :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I have heard about the roster issues going on in Perth and Melbourne and I extend my thanks to the LAMEs there for sticking to their guns. I hope some genuine negotiation will result from your efforts.

Could someone provide further information about the Sydney precinct review? I have not heard about it before.

Thanks

these layoffs will they be forced i cant see them getting 200 to leave after the last redunancy was less than a year ago

Is the QF engineer the only person on duty at the 24 hour airport, surely not.

Are we saying that only another QF engineer contactable by radio can come to assist in case of emergency, surely not.

Why not give the engineer a mobile phone instead of a radio?

There must be a stack of appropriate people to contact in case of emergency, including the 24 hour Rescue Fire Fighting Service.

Jeepers this works in small ports, what is different about Perth?

Seems a no-brainer to me.

Or is it just another attempt to squawk safety during a reform process??????

Why not give the engineer a mobile phone instead of a radio?

Because any PED (portable electronic device) needs to be intrinsically safe in accordance with Australian safety standards. Mobile phones are not. If you drop one and the battery falls off on the concrete tarmac, a spark could occur igniting fuel vapours which tend to hang around the vents at the end of the wings. This would tend to cause an explosion that could lead to the deaths of hundreds of people.

I thought this would be a no brainer but then again as most managers are now accountants it may be a little difficult to work out.



Are we saying that only another QF engineer contactable by radio can come to assist in case of emergency, surely not.

If an emergency occurs Qantas procedures need to be followed. The procedures are for the DMM to respond to the appropriate emergency service as outlined in his office on emergency response cards. If it is left to anyone to respond then other depts and engineers may just assume that someone else will get it.

I would think it a no brainer that Qantas procedures need to be followed in case of emergency but then again accountants sit in offices. FYI - If you get a paper cut please follow procedure and contact your on duty first aider.



Or is it just another attempt to squawk safety during a reform process??????

It is an attempt to bypass safety during a reform process. A process driven by pen pushers and other odd balls to cut costs and reduce safety. A process driven by a Qantas management team littered with ex Ansett managers applying the same principles that destroyed Ansett. A process that is being rejected by Perth engineers for the benefit of all engineers in Australia and the safety record of the airline but thank you for your perspective. It gives us an insight into the ignorance we are dealing with.

Thanks MAHAT...
 

Right to the point. These are the incursions to the safety and work procedures that the "bonus" driven management are slowly feeding into the system. They may sound trivial to the uneducated or ignorant, but where does it stop. Do we wait for the disaster to happen, or ensure the safety of Qantas employees and the flying public is held as a priority. All part of the grand scheme to cheapen Qantas and ensure managment get their bonus, which unfortunately filters right down to the lowest KPI driven office bunny with clipboard and calculator skills. It's GD's favourite message, "You do not meet cost of capital".

Managers Perspective
 

It's a bit hard to use a radio or a mobile if your alone, injured ,and unconscious on the tarmac.Hence the need to work in pairs, we wouldn't want an LTI would we, coz safety is our priority.
It is my experience of late that all staff are out of the office and spread thinly around the ramp, even the senior is out of the office just to make things work.
Stick to shuffling papers!