***warning***
 

Having decided to have brief look at the Dunnunda forums I have been appalled at the amount of cr@p that has been posted on these forums since I last looked a long time ago. Too many threads appear to deteriorate into p!ssing contests between spotters and enthusiasts about who knows more than the other about the airline industry.

From now on I am instructing the mods to be especially vigilant and if ANY post is not connected in some way to PROFESSIONAL PILOTS then it will either be deleted or moved to a more appropriate forum such as, for example: Airlines, Airports & Routes; Cabin Crew; Private Flying; Biz Jets & GA; Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner); Military Aircrew or whatever. For far too long this forum has become a scrap heap for anything that has wings and recently even news items that have absolutely nothing to do with aviation let alone professional pilots.

The time has come for you all to realise that PPRuNe stands for The Professional Pilots Rumour Network. If you have an urge to discuss something about PPL's and it is related to something to do with getting a professional licence then it goes into the Private Flying forum. If someone crashes their C150 or PA28 or whatever then it goes in the private flying forum as long as the aircraft was involved in some way in training someone for their professional licence. If it is just Joe Bloggs who was out for a joyride then it doesn't go on PPRuNe. There are enough enthusiasts sites out there where you can argue to your hearts content about the minutae of general aviation. If it isn't related to Professioanl Piloting then it doesn't belong on here.

I suggest to those of you with a bent for arguing the point that you find yourself another website as I will not be entertaining argument about my decision to get these forums back on their original intended track as you may find a wasted effort, especially with long winded responses that may get deleted. Sod free speech. I pay for this website and I decide what does and what doesn't remain on here. Forewarned is forearmed! :=

Well said BOSS.
 

Danny why has it taken you so long to see the light in NZ,
A small country, every one looking out at the big wide world.
In NZ the very act of aviation is committed differently, we believe everything we read, hear, and always leave it to someone else to complain, let them lose their head, and we can all move up the ladder one rung?
The whipping shall continue until moral increases.:ok: :ok:
H/Snort
( Hey thats two posts in one night, now where's my beer?)

I can't see why the Jandakot Airport thread was moved, it is an issue that affects all of the many professional pilots who work there . :confused:

It only takes one 'know-it-all' or enthusiast who thinks they know more than everyone else but with no experience to back it up for a thread to degenerate into the inevitable mess that has been the norm here for so long. If your issue is about professional jobs then fine, it will stay. However, if the thread becomes an 'experts' (NOT) opinion about the pros and cons of locating the airport and sounds to me or another mod as just the usual enthusiasts debate then it will either be moved to the forum that discusses airport as well as airlines and routes or else will be removed from the forums.

Unless the message that this is a PROFESSIONAL PILOTS website and that unless the debate is directly about PROFESSIONAL PILOTS or the myriad of associated issues then it just doesn't belong on here. There are just too many hotheads that are taking advantage of PPRuNe to stir up things with their own agenda. The time has come to get rid of these oh-so-brave individuals who don't have the cojones to use their real identities because they know saying what they do face to face would result in injury or litigation.

If you want to discuss anything that is directly related to PROFESSIONAL PILOTS and professional aviation then by all means go ahead. If all you want to do is try and bullsh!t those of us who are professional pilots or in the business with your supposed knowledge of all things aviation but has nothing to do with what I consider PROFESSIONAL PILOTS then it is going to be moved or removed. It's as simple as that and if you can't accept it or understand it then tough! :=

For the record Danny, I respectfully suggest that you are way out of line on this matter because you don't understand the territory.

For a start, this is not "little Britain' full of cosy little villages and "farm strips" for weekend warriors.

When we are talking about Jandakot, Point Cook, Essendon, Evans Head and elsewhere, we are talking about very major bits of relatively scarce infrastructure. Jandakot is the only "full service" GA airport for a thousand miles. Australia is not covered with large concrete runways and the impact of closure or movement will have a major impact on professional and recreational pilots alike.

Moorrabbin and Point Cook (don't know about Jandakot) have schools that train hundreds of Asian (professional) pilots per year, but of course you wouldn't know that. Almost all GA airports in major cities are under pressure from property developers, but you wouldn't know that either. Changes to these places will have major and continuing impact on Aviation at all levels.

Similarly, it appears even from my own limited experience that aviation downunda is a little more closely connected then perhaps it is in Britain, and some of the "Idle Talk" you read on these pages is actually code.

If you wish to restrict your forum to professional pilots go right ahead, but in doing so in my opinion you will lose considerable content and value because there are people like myself and others who don't know much about being a professional pilot, but who have had some modest exposure to the aviation business and are able to answer some of the (occasionaly asinine) questions professional pilots ask about their industry that no one else can.

I am happily a weekend warrior, (puffs out chest and gets on high horse) I've worked as airline engineering staff, government consultant responsible in part for getting more investment and jobs into aviation and aerospace, a development manager for a major aerospace company. I've run a few businesses and worked for a few Boards, and I happen to think that every one of my contributions is pure gold:ok:

Translation: Leave it to the local Woomeri Danny, they seem to do a reasonable job!

Sunfish, there are times I agree with what you say (quietly), and then again there are other times you are so wide of the mark, pompous and patronising it isn't funny (like now).

My joined date here may say sometime "this century", however I can assure you I've been here since just after PPRuNe was an email ring (1996). The difference in the mood here nowadays is like chalk and cheese, and in fact I would put much of the angst down here these days to spotty little wannabees or kiddies with daddy's money and computer getting on here playing bigshot know-it-all.

The rot really started with the 10 year anniversary '89 thread where many tempers became very frayed. From that point on it seems that it became "accepted behaviour" to ridicule and belittle and generally act and post like smug anonymous mummy's boys and girls. You've come in somewhere along the line Sunfish and it seems that you value your opinion just as much as many of those mummy's boys and girls.

Wow, you've been on a couple of boards, so what? Does that make you better or more knowledgeable about his/her craft than a professional pilot? I know my post looks outwardly like it derides you Sunfish, but look at it this way: Do you just invite friends to a party (because you know them and for the most part they will behave), or do you invite the whole of Melbourne (or wherever you live), so that thay can come to your place and continually fight and trash the joint?

Now can you see where this is all coming from? There is more than enough room in PPRuNe for well informed persons (not neccessarily working at the coalface of the industry), just not the dickheads. I know I for one get cranky with stupid and moronic questions and behaviour and I guess Danny has just called "enough". Good on him and Rob I say, fair enough too.

100% support here.

OpsN. ;)

Thank You for your post Ops. Perhaps I am being pompous, hence my tongue in cheek comment. The point I was making is that if Pprune rigidly sticks to its professional pilots mantra, then it will lose some valueable inputs along with the silliness. I'm not classing my input as valueable although on some matters I believe I have been able to shed a little light.

I understand Danny's concerns regarding litigation, but let's face it, the aviation industry is rife with self censorship - the discovery of the levels to which this extends came as rather a shock to me, and Pprune is about the only place I can think of where it is possible to air certain issues at all.

Danny, 100% support here too. :D Finally an end to the who has the biggest debate, and also some much needed support to the woomeri team.

If you wish to restrict your forum to professional pilots go right ahead, but in doing so in my opinion you will lose considerable content and value because there are people like myself and others who don't know much about being a professional pilot, but who have had some modest exposure to the aviation business and are able to answer some of the (occasionaly asinine) questions professional pilots ask about their industry that no one else can.

Sunfish, with the all due respect, if professional pilots have questions they want answered that fall outside the dununnda forums, they can ask them in many of the other forums available.

While I was an instructor not so long ago (and enjoyed the challenges), and have some very strong views on the training system here in Australia, there is a forum dedicated to this. As far as being a professional pilot goes, having a whole bunch of posts regarding the latest fly away someone has done etc becomes a little annoying, then to top it off the same handle is discussing topics that relate to professional pilots.

I hope this marks the beginning of pilots sticking together as currently there are many concerning decisions being made by higher powers regarding pay and conditions.

Bugs:ok:

Well Danny - Its quite amazing actually, you have identified the very state of the Australian Aviation Industry itself.

Full of:
Bull**** artists
Backstabbers
Ladder climbers
Whingers
Whiners
Know it alls.

I do admit everyone is not like this within the industry, but the ones that are, give it such a bad persona.

It is no wonder that all the pilots cannot unite and stand up for the basic things like pay and conditions within the industry.

Oh and BTW, thats how management like it!

Bo!

A1, go ahead and do what you like. It's Danny's forum, as he says, he pays the bill. However it doesn't change my point of view, which is that Pprune will be poorer for it.

You make your own argument however:

Given the ignominious and continuing failure of pilots as a group to address these matters successfully (as evidenced in Pprune itself), I would suggest that your comment:

Is incorrect. Pilots never seem to ask anyone anything, and therein lies a very large part of your wages and conditions problem, as I am sick and tired of explaining. I have a great deal of sympathy for professional pilots, but driving a wedge between various chunks of the aviation community is not going to help your cause.

To put it yet another way; The precise and infinite distinctions between pilots on the basis of race, tribe, caste, rank and pecking order are the achillies heel of professional pilots, as evidenced by twenty five years of industry tumoil. Don't make any more distinctions please lest you totally alienate everyone else.

I know its great for the ego to be part of an exclusive group, but you never know when even the lowly "Spotter" that most of you so contemptuously dismiss is going to provide a crucial bit of evidence or the casting vote somewhere that it counts - and since truth is stranger than fiction, I'm not joking.

I too respectfully disagree with the "changes"

Having just looked at the reporting points board....half of the topics have been moved all over the forums!! Look up above ^next to where it says:

D & G Reporting Points Airline and RPT issues in Australia and enZed.

Aren't those threads that have been moved fitting exactly into this category?

I am a new professional pilot...and to me I don't want to be searching high and low all over the forums for issues that are happening in aus. Ie the ****** and Skywest threads impact me as that is where I see myself in 5 years time maybe.

Why not keep it the way it is (with ALL PROFESSIONAL) issues happening in aus and nz kept in these boards and Woomeri given more power to remove threads as they see fit.

Just my 2c.

Well kick me out if you wish after I've had my say.

A recent post of mine, in a thread which has now been removed was critical of woomera over the locking of the Steve Irwin threads. I said in that post that if we as a collective group of professional aviators cannot acknowledge something like the death of a national icon such as Steve Irwin or Peter Brock then they should enforce ALL the rules and eliminate anything not related to PROFESSIONAL pilots which this forum claims to represent. My views were supported by several other posters. I can't help feeling that Woomera has gone crying to the boss man that people were ganging up on him, hence the reason for this thread.

Now as I said in that post, aviation or in this case supposedly PROFESSIONAL aviation is what brings us together in this forum, it's our common bond. In my opinion it's not unlike a bunch of us meeting at Adelaide's former Aviation Institute for a beer or two after work. Just because we were in a bar did not mean that conversation had to be limited to beer, although VB vs any other brand often came up. Often what was on the agenda for discussion would be aircraft, work conditions, or all kinds of other aviation related matters. Did this mean that when the the first Gulf War broke out we turned off the TV, no of course not. It was a temporary change in what was discussed by a bunch of aviation professionals who were there at the time. Some didn't have a lot of interest in that, so they discussed other things at another table. That's cool, it's just like ignoring a thread which has a topic of no interest to you. Eventually the gulf war ended and we all went back to discussing matters aviation.

My point is that if we choose to acknowledge an event other than aviation in our forum it should be treated as what it is, a temporary spike of off topic chatter. Let's face it the Steve Irwin threads have, after a couple of days gone quiet.

It seems to me that most internet forums exist only to massage their owners egos. Some take off and grow into very large sites such as this one and airliners.net, and without exception they seem to reach the point where the control freaks just like to censor this and censor that if they don't agree. So the bottom line is don't come bitching about "I own it" or "I pay for it", there's no law which says you have to do it. If it's such a burden, don't do it. There's a lot of advertising on this site, doesn't it cover much of the cost?
It's not unlike the kid who doesn't get his way so as owner of the football goes home and takes his ball with him screwing it up for everybody.

So there ya go, feel free to cancel my account if you wish, If I have offended anyone with this post, so be it. People who know me know that I speak my mind and I don't hold back. As I've been saying for 20 years or so "Political correctness will be the end of civilization as we know it"

tlf
US ATP Holder
Australian ATP Holder
Professional Aviator

"Isn't it strange"
 

look pprune has always been kind of different ; pilots are like that. i have never participated until recently although i have been a keen watcher !!!!!

how can anyone from the uk understand what is going on here in the "land down under"; we have issues here that we understand that impact the Professional Pilot like "jandakot" or "alliance" or "skywest" or "virgin blue".

why should this be just a forum for the "old boys" like qantas or the "old country".

one thing i notice about the "old country" is how closed their minds are or their lack of perspective on issues facing our lives and industry. my family has had direct involvement in the airline industry since 1954 (the good old days of TAA ) !!!!!!!!

dijon moutard:ok:
ATPL (since 1980)

There is a forum on this site called Jet Blast. Perhaps some should pay it a visit.

Sunfish,
To quote from Danny's original post:
I have been appalled at the amount of cr@p that has been posted on these forums since I last looked a long time ago. Too many threads appear to deteriorate into p!ssing contests between spotters and enthusiasts about who knows more than the other about the airline industry
Enough said
A1:ok:

Absolutely incorrect. Danny has in fact left these forums more or less alone for several years now, under the watchful eye of the Woomera team. We collectively have given these forums a pretty easy run by all standards. Perhaps too easy considering the liberty some people take. Danny wants things tightened up. So be it.

As for crying to the boss. Please....We can look after ourselves, thank you very much :rolleyes:

You're free to do with your membership as you wish tlf. That includes leaving if this site no longer fills your needs. One thing's for sure. The owner sets the rules and the moderators will apply them. If that upsets a few people, then that's the way it is.

As for censorship, see above. Some people here think that just because they hide behind an anonymous identity they can say whatever they want with impunity. D&G has been closed at least once as a result of libellous or slanderous posts. I've lost count of how many times legal action has been threatened against Danny by numerous individuals. Yet in spite of this, he has left these forums open. That has largely been as a result of the Woomera working in the background trying to keep things on an even keel.

PPRuNe is not a place of free speech, no matter what you might think your "rights" are. If you want to maintain your anonymity, DON'T post defamatory statements! Then we won't need moderators!

I draw your attention to the Ten Thingies at the top of these pages.

I live, breath and work in Oz and for one think that danny really doesn't understand the Oz situation. Everyone knows everyone and Serious questions in a struggling industry are posted. NOW do i care about going into other forums.. no. I really couldn't give 2 hoots BUT this forum has become a way for people to communicate where, because of distance, people cant.

Dan you have to understand this, and quite frankly I agree about with all the pissing and farting that goes on. If a moderator doesn't want to do exactly that put someone else in charge because there is no reason to take such a heavy handed approach.

Shame shame shame :) (but of course you might not know that one... its an aussie thing :E :E )

As can we, most of us are mature enough to ignore the crap, we don't need censors to dictate what we can and can't read here. By all means remove thing which could attract litigation, but please don't tell me what's good for me.

Trevor Fenn
Not hiding behind an anonymous nom de plume

But according to Danny, Post #9, here you cannot post on JetBlast without having purchased a personal title. :ugh: :mad: :ugh:

Guys....I didn't read anything in Danny's posts of last night and this morning that left huge latitude for debate.

Changes are occurring and it seems the many headed hydra that is Woomera will devolve into each of us moderating under an individual Mod name...like Tidbinbilla above....just thinking up one for me at the mo:confused: .

Danny ownes Pprune...think about that.

Would you allow people in your home to slag off other guests?

I know I have asked people to leave my home before for exactly that...so if you don't want to play by the rules please leave.

The Woomera have NOT gone running to Danny with our collective tails between our legs...stuff has happened in the background that has caused Danny concern and he has come to D&G and made his feelings known...we as D&G mods will do our best to moderate accordingly.

I am going to lock this thread but leave it stickied...Danny is not seeking dissenting opinion on his decision and this thread will not turn into the usual whinging about the mods which has been a feature of late. You are wasting you time writing posts in an effort to wind back the clock 24hrs.

Soon to be something else

Just thought I'd add that perhaps some of you need to get out a bit more and read how the rest of the world does professional aviation. If you want to discuss flying instructor issues then you go to the Flight Instructors forum. If you want to discuss how you think Qantas or Jetstar should be managed and run then you either go to the Spotters Balcony forum or the Airlines, Airports & Routes forum. If you want to discuss Steve Irwin then you go to Jet Blast.

It has become very apparent to me over the years of running this website that one of the main problems facing you Antipodeans when it comes to professional aviation is that you have become too insular. You have come to believe that you are somehow special or so different from everywhere else on earth that you are a special case. Well, perhaps it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. The problems you have with airport closures and the difficulty getting that first paid job as a pilot or believing that you know better than the owners how to run an airline or in this case a professional pilots website are not exclusive to Godzone people. They occur all over the world and the only difference is that the scale is different.

Please tell me how can a country with an aviation idustry the size of Australia's warrant such an exclusive forum. You seem to think that because you are tucked away in a huge continent that you have in some way evolved differently when it comes to our profession and everything associated with it.

I have met and flown with enough Australian and New Zealand pilots during my career to understand that those of you who have never had to venture outside of your area to fly professionally seem to think that what you do, the problems you face and the environment you fly in are somehow exclusive and different. Well, let me tell you, you need to get out more often and experience how the rest of the world do it.

As for the spotters, enthusiasts and anyone else who has an interest in professional aviation, you can use this site and the areas dedicated to your enthusiasm or hobby. However, just because something has wings does not mean that it has to be mentioned on here. The numerous threads I have seen that go on about an accident or incident involving some private aircraft just go to show that some of you obviously don't understand what is meant by PROFESSIONAL PILOTS website!

To assist you in coming to terms with the planned changes to this and other forums, and this is by no means comprehensive, you should consider the following categories of professional pilots and associated jobs as they rank for inclusion as topical on this website:

Airline pilots of medium and heavy jets; Airline pilots of regional jets and turboprops over 20t; GA professional pilots of other multi-engined aircraft; Military pilots; professional helicopter pilots; professional pilots of other a/c types including lighter-than-air (powered).

Next we have:

ATC; Cabin crew; Flight engineers; Ground engineers; Flight Dispatchers; Operations; Crewing; Rostering.

Next:

Flight instructors; Groundschool instructors; Wannabe professional pilots.

Finally:

Private pilots (only insofar as they relate to those staring out on their professional training).

Anything else goes into the other forums. Steve Irwin, if you have the urge to say anything then go to Jet Blast. Another more relevant example, if you want to discuss the closing of an airport, even if it affects the jobs of anyone in the previously mentioned categories then you use the Airlines, Airports & Routes forum. Likewise for all the budding airline tycoons who want to debate the ins and outs of which a/c type is better suited for a particular route or the scheduling of a particular city pair or whatever, then use the appropriate forum. It never ceases to amaze me that you somehow think that you know what is best yet you want to keep it insulated from the outside world of professional aviation. If you listened a bit more and stopped preaching so much perhaps you'd get a few more solutions to the "unique problems" that you think you have Dunnunda!

If some of you think that I'm advocating censorship then you need your heads examining. Have you ever tried getting an article or even just a letter published in a newspaper with your views on something? Do you call the editor accusing him or her of censorship because they didn't publish something? Well, I retain the right to decide what does and doesn't get published on here. It isn't your liveliehood or home that is on the line. Far too many posters are under the misguided impression that just because they are anonymous they can make unsubstantiated accusations about named individuals. Well, it is high time that those of you who are under that misguided impression get off this website because I will not protect anyone who makes libelous or defamatory statements without substantiated proof. Too many times individuals on here have tried to use this site for their own personal agendas and been oh-so-brave insulting others when we all know that they'd never use such language or allegations if they were face to face with their target.

I'll repoen this thread so that the discussion can go on but please spare us the semantics and martyrdom speeches. The issue is PPRuNe and how the content is going to be related to PROFESSIONAL PILOTS and the associated areas mentioned above.

That to me sums it up in a nice concise nutshell. As a NZer who has flown in NZ, OZ, and now the UK....it goes against my Kiwi instinct to agree with Danny on this, but my experience tells me otherwise.
Us antipodeans are no bloody different to anyone else, if you think we are, then perhaps its time you took another view at the world:ok:

Over the past couple of years I've been fortunate enough to have a bit to do with the PPrune team, and I've been benefited from their guidance and generosity. As a result of this, and perhaps because of this..each time I've read a post In D & G that is quite clearly ignorant, insular, or worse..I've tried to throw a little balance (and humour) into the mix.
So I say to all you doubting thomas's,critics,mud-slingers and other disgruntled D & G contributors...give this a chance...we all face the same issues..we all share an interest in aviation (of many kinds)...and after all is said and done, its a big world out there:ok:

Cheers

H

Respectfully, I think a far greater problem, and source of embarassment is, how nearly every thread becomes an intense bitch fight.:ugh:

That's ok.
A professional pilot, to me, is an attitude. It has nothing to do with a) what licence you hold; b) what type of aircraft you fly; and c) how big your pay packet is.




So under that definition..... :8

After 38 years of heavy jet operating worldwide and simultaneously private flying in Oz, I can't agree with you enough Danny.

Good luck to all with the "sort out!" :D

G'day ;)

It has become very apparent to me over the years of running this website that one of the main problems facing you Antipodeans when it comes to professional aviation is that you have become too insular. You have come to believe that you are somehow special or so different from everywhere else on earth that you are a special case

As a loyal Australian, having flown professionally in Oz and now the UK, I find this insulting. But having now flown off the rock, sadly, IMHO, it is often true.

BB

I would have to agree with Danny, having flown a fair bit outside NZ and Oz I can see that we downunder are a bit full of our own self importance and skills at times.:ugh:

Eh? where has Danny taken the piss? I've re-read his post, and I can't find any piss take at all, hes just stating the facts as he (and a lot of us expats and locals alike) see's it.

Well haughtney, I deleted the post as I cant be bothered making comments to people from a certain part of the world who are losing their country and identity and yet still have a chip from the rugby outcome. :rolleyes:

I would like to suggest that there are one or two categories missing from Danny's carefully constructed pecking order that perhaps might be worth including since they have a rather large effect on the life of professional pilots one way or another, if only for completness.

I'm not sure they would merit their own area on Pprune since I have not known very many who would post, or even could post without being rather too easily identifiable.

The first of these are the professionals who design and manufacture your aircraft.

The second are the managers and schedulers within the airline that attempt to provide a suitably maintained and equipped aircraft for you to fly at the appropriate place and time.

The third are the accountants who have to figure out what its all going to cost.

The latter two groups seem to be invisible from the cockpit, but without their largely unsung work nothing happens.

As for differences between Australia and Europe and the various p***ing contests, there are a number of pluses and minuses on both sides.

Australia doesn't have very many snow covered runways, congestion and rotten European weather although I'm sure the QF International pilots get their fair share. Perhaps the job is easier because of it, I wouldn't know.

On the other hand, we don't have a large choice of local employers (ground and flight crew), and that has to color people's thinking and discourse here. At one stage the two old domestic airlines even had an unwritten agreement not to poach or even employ each others staff.

On an operational level, the fleets are relatively small here and the distances between major centres are rather large, which means the logistics and priorities are quite different from European operations, like having five state capitals and only four spare engines.

On a final note, the industry is relatively small here and closely connected, which means that, as evidenced by Pprune posts, that when some Cessna has an accident in the outback somewhere, some expat B747 driver will pipe up about spending time flying it years ago. The New Guinea thread is a case in point.


OK, I need to get out more, off to do some laps in the Cessna.

At last sanity prevails. When I pointed out to one ppruner that it was supposed to be a forum for PROFESSIONAL PILOTS. MOR wrote:

" WITCH get a life. And you got the emphasis wrong in your explanation of the forum title. It is the Professional Pilots Rumour network. In fact, it stopped being for professional pilots some years ago..."

Good on ya Danny

Sadly there is too much whinging and vitriol on D&G and I consider this the primary cause of Danny's "rage". We have to clean up our act in this area for the benifit of all and for positive input into our industry here in Oz and Godzone.

Danny,
Thank you for taking this overdue step and allowing us access to your site for free. Whatever rules you set - I'll abide by or leave.

Sunfish,
1722 posts in 2 years - you really have too much spare time and too much to say.

Danny,

I'll be in Luton tomorrow afternoon. Can I buy you a brew Mate?

Chris

I hate to say it, Danny, but I feel you have become just as much an offender with this topic, and your posts, as you accuse many of those other "horrible Australians" of being guilty (of).

There's no disputing at all, that PPRuNe is your personal domain - but it is the contributors and posters who have built it to be what it is.
And although you state that you pay for the hosting etc, i notice there are a heck of a lot of advertisements, all over PPRuNe.
Having advertised my aviation forum website here - the name of which is banned - I know how very expensive those banners are.

You are certainly to be commended for growing PPRuNe into what it has become for the pilot community, and I fully concur that there are always the spammers and opportunists who try to take advantage of a site such as your's, to try to promote their product, or point of view.

BUT, that doesn't - imo - give YOU the right to issue a tirade of venom against Australians in general, which is how your posts have come across, whether you meant it that way or not.

Yes, we are a diverse lot, and we don't often sugar-coat our words when we feel strongly about particular subjects.
But we Australians understand that, and so whilst some of it might appear "coarse" and "crude" to Englishmen and other Europeans, or non-native Strine speakers, we take it in our stride.

Isn't THAT precisely one of the reasons you set up separate forums for different countries?
Knowing that those forums would more likely be frequented by countrymen of those specific forae?

I'm not excusing the spammers, or the outright personally abusive posts that I have been subjected to on occasion here, however in the Oz culture there is often a "dig" intended to get a measured degree of response to insure continued debate.

Thanks for the space on your website that allowed me to air my Aussie point of view.

Charlie Rich aka Kaptin M.

Oh well said. Someone give that man a beer!!:D

I don't see what the issue is with the DG threads. We like to fight among ourselves, that's half the fun. I have cruised the other threads on pprune and seen the pilots from the UK related threads tear each other apart over ryanair and ezyjet topics, the Hong Kong blokes are at each other's necks like vampire bats, the miltary threads will happily devour 10 pages of trading abuse over things like the best way to cook on a weber barbeque which as far as I know has sweet F-A to do with being a professional miltary pilot. Has the owner of pprune contacted the miltary guys to stop talking about their weber barbies too or is that actually a bona fide professional miltary aviation subject which deserves all the coverage it can generate?

I can't see what the problem is with the aussies. Maybe we just know how to express ourselves but I will say that prune has become much more sterile and boring over the past 12 months or so. That in itself is a message I guess.

Whatever!

Don't like it, don't read it.

:D:D :D
Long time overdue Danny.
Well said.
(+ thanks for unlocking this thread too, Woomera)
Happy Landings:ok:

And I thought only Sydney (ATC) was a "special case"!!

Danny, no doubt you have considered that perhaps "pprune" has grown above and beyond what you originally intended.

For as long as I have been a member there has been a "Dunnunda (sic) and Godzone", the byline of which is An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.

The independence was promoted, the diversity of topics was encouraged.

Back a year ago there were 3 D&G sections, now there is 2.
Whilst I appreciate the opportunity to post, I enjoy being able to read and perhaps learn. I see this as pprunes strength.

You have the right to operate the forum in any way you wish and no-one is trying to take from you the huge number of hours and considerable monies that you have spent in getting pprune to this but please consider that yours and pprunes success is built upon the huge number of members that have taken to time to participate.