EK recruiting in Oz
 

I guess some would have seen the add in the Australian about EK holding an open day for recruiting pilots a little while back.

Well since this is a rumour network, how about this. As well as the open day, assessment sim rides will also be held for those that have already got an application in. Time frame is early Apr. This is something that EK has not done before. Also, rumour has it that female applicants will also be assessed.

Could this be because EK have seen what salaries are like in Oz, and how much pilots are paying for type ratings now, and think that the fellas can not afford the trip to the desert ?

Don

donpizmeov

It could be because they are desperate for pilots. Having numerous aircraft parked up against the fence does wonders to inspire management to employ more pilots.

If the hosties are leaving in as many numbers as I was told the other day, it's hardly surprising they need more drivers as well....

Unfortunately, No OZ /NZ bases just DXB:(

Open Daze
 

Has anyone got the email address from last Friday's ad in the Strine? I may as well see what they've got to say....

Dood,

it's [email protected]


(Still waiting for a reply)

good luck:ok:

Details of the open days also being posted on their website.

Oz2

Dear oh dear oh dear, people just never learn do they.

Qantas managers are spruiking about competition between airlines for passengers. It also extends to pilots, engineers and crew. Qantas just hasn't had much experience in that field yet, but it's coming. Sounds like EK is starting to feel it.

Guys

........if you anyone down here is seroius about moving to EK or any other operator in the Mid East....... can I just say.... if you currently have a job, like where you live, are reasonably happy with who you are working for and feel that life is ok at the moment, then dont move. the grass is always greener but remember its still grass....it may have a little more flavour or it may look nice from your paddock .....but trust me its still grass. life up here is not like life in Aussie or NZ.

people up here are very different and the way you are treated is not like you are treated backhome. if you need a job then take what ever you can get.....but my advice is commute on a contract job from your home ...its still better than the unreasonable, unlogical and frustrating Management of the middle east.

Yes.... I have moved to the sand and yes I am now stuck here....I have a big car loan..... I have gold cards coming out of my ears and the banks are still trying force more of their credit cards onto me. I have a bank loan that I have used to invest into real estate......biut its all got to be paid back and the cost is not cheap. I am now traped at least until my fourth year is up.

......they made a great job of selling life style ...roster stability.....big money....and great layovers on the worlds most modern fleet. look very hard at what your options are and think very carefully about leaving a great life style in country where you do have rights as an employee, you can go anywhere you like without having to put up with the outdated fourth world mentality of we are local you are S#%t.

I have made the most of being up here but its expensive......nothing is free.....the red tape you go through to get things done here on a daily basis is completely unbeliveable......and its shrugged off as "oh thats the way it is here ".

.....if I had done my research on daily life and the cost of living and how much I was really getting paid in the sand........I would not have applied at all. For me it hasnt been worth it. I am now like many others here actively working toward getting out.

TR

TR

Well said

Esp for those of you who are based in BNE .. think long and hard before swapping that for the desert of DXB .. yes it all looks very nice as TR has said, but it is not a scrap on Brisvegas and SE QLD.

Sooooo - you want to work for Emirates ???

If you want to fly shiny new jets, then Dubai is just the place for you. Or is it ??

PLEASE - consider carefully the following:

- Rostered 90 plus hours long haul (mostly east west) per month.
- Minimum days off, particularly on the A330.
- Long term fatigue issues.
- The AUD/NZ equivalent salary has decreased effectively by around 30 % since the USD fell into the abyss.
- Uncertain promotion prospects with unannounced changes possible to policies.
- Contracts that will be altered at any time without any discussion with you.
- No union representation.
- Ineffective, sycophantic management that has little regard for your welfare. The one and only good manager we have is leaving soon.
- Housing is luck of the draw - you get what's allotted by the housing mafia.
- Cost of living in Dubai is NO LONGER the value for money paradise it used to be. Plan on AT LEAST what you spend in AUS/NZ.
- Inflation is becoming a significant component of daily life here. Salaries are way behind in buying power compared to 2 years ago.
- There is NO POSSIBILITY of commuting with the rosters as they are and indeed into the future as relative pilot numbers fall against increasing numbers of destinations.
- You will be working with people who 2 years ago would never have got a look in. Standards are a real issue that you should consider.
- Ask yourself why so many people are LEAVING rather than joining. Resignation rates are at levels NEVER seen before with this company.
- The traffic situation and driving in Dubai is horrific.
- What value do you place on lifestyle ? As one who has moved from your region, can I say that the grass is VERY DEFINITELY greener where you are.

If you are working for VB, QF, JQ, JetConnect, Pacific Blue (or indeed any other established operator) please think very seriously before you resign and make a move that may well be regretted very soon after arriving. This is all the more relevant when you are facing a USD 36,000 bond from the moment you do your final check to the line.

Ask specific questions to the Emirates people at the open day and insist on answers, rather than vague responses. They must not be allowed to give you false impressions and false hopes of what life and work in Dubai is all about.

In conclusion, this is the stark reality about Emirates - so think very carefully about your career aspirations and your family and how they will handle such a move.

Surely this is not the same Emirates at which Flight Ops management continue to this day to "tell" the existing guys how lucky they are to have a job at Emirates because we are getting DOZENS of applications every day from the most fantastic applicants....mmmmmm....so now, HR have to start running ALL around the World holding Forums and Seminars trying to get pilots to apply to Emirates.
Why is this so Professor???????? Just maybe there is a message hidden somewhere in the CODE. :confused: :p

Guys I understand the ME culture....Been there before.

Most interesting with the advertisement was the timing!
QF are aware of it, probably have the keystone security taking down number plates and snapping photos of QF attendees..

It puts a little subtle pressure on to say the least...QF facing some new poachers that Dixon is worried will swamp the airline and staff he cares so much about:suspect:

Interesting 1st posts from Des dimona and tail rota. Sound to me like a couple of f/os maybe bypassed by the DEC chaps. Only a hunch. I have lived in the Middle East now for near on six years and can tell you this tax free gig, paid accomodation, paid school fees and flying nice shiny new aircraft is top stuff. I am nearly set up for life thanks to this little tour of duty.

Get with the program fellas, you have never had it so good !:ok:

QFinsider you gotta be management mate with those conspiricy theories. Number plate recording at EK interviews............methinks QF may be getting a little spooked........BOO !!!!

I think EVERY Qantas pilot who's got a day off when EK holds the open day should attend. There's no commitment, no obligation. And professional people should be continually out there anyway, networking and assessing where they sit in the big picture.

I wonder if it'd be useful for the word to get back to GOD that a couple of hundred QF pilots attended? I wonder whether he would would think: "great, a way to rid myself of a bunch of overpaid, unworking whingers", or could he think "uh oh....." ?

It could be a useful ploy, overall, and will certainly be educational. They might even have free beer!

I like to see what happens when a certain major Asian carrier starts interviewing later this years for direct entry F/O’s based in Sydney and Melbourne on their pax fleet. Preference will be given to those that already have A330/340 experience but I'm sure all will be considered. I suspect we will hear from a lot of pissed off QF drivers. I think we will also hear from a lot of J* drivers looking for a better gig that will pay them better than what they are currently being offered.

BAE146,

"....Get with the program fellas, you have never had it so good"
And just whose managers backside are you climbing up???
Maybe with your infinite wisdom (sic) you could tell us exactly which points raised by rota and des are so incorrect.
Seems to me they have hit the nail on the head. :ok:

Ron and Edna

Good idea for all QF pilots to attend and see just how well off they are compared to the Emirates guys. I am sure that very few applications will follow once the salaries and contracts are closely examined. So I don't think Dixon has all that much to worry about in terms of EK poaching anyone.

We all have our own threshold of pain.

Whether it be low salary, good lifestyle or visa versa. Living in the sand pit with family and putting up with all that it brings or living in the rice pit as I am away from the family for reasonably long periods.

Do what you have to to get ahead. Use the mongrels to get that shinny Boeing/god forbid Airbus (just kidding) endorsement and move on to a better deal when it presents itself.

Current airline management attitude deserves nothing better from us.

The companies and their pathetic attitudes are turning previously keen committed pilots into jaded, who gives a..........types.

They have lost the plot and it will cost them in all sorts of ways as time goes on.

Do what is right for you.

By the way, the sandpit isn't too bad for a little while.

I have quite a few mates at EK. It is interesting to chat with them about how things are going there. Until recently trying to find time to chat with the Airbus drivers was hard to do as they were always at work. Now it seems the Boeing drivers are also on the busy rosters.
I have found those that just treat EK as any other job,and leave the office politics alone are happy campers. These are normally the ones that live in areas that are not surrounded by other EK pilots. The fellas that are living in the EK ghettos, surrounded by other EK pilots, do not seem to be able to get away from the company. These seem to be the ones that are aging before there time, as they can not step a foot out of their house without being depressed by another story or rumour of woe from the company. Unfortunately, where you get to live is determined by the EK housing department, and once put somewhere you are stuck, unless rents go up, and the company makes you pay for a move somewhere cheaper. Last time I was in DXB, I was shown the new Villas which are to house 600 to 800 EK pilots, and which will be finished shortly. These stand in the middle of the desert, far away from the schools and shops and restaurants etc. If the effect of living surrounded by 83 other pilots close to town can be depressing, I can only try and imagine the effect of being surrounded by 799 in the middle of nowhere.
All those I know within the company reckon it has gone dramatically down hill in the past few years. But this is also the case with those I know at SQ, CX, KA, QF etc etc.
It is interesting that EK is now conducting SIM assessments outside of DXB. I wonder if word has got out that the days of quick commands in the desert are gone, and the applicants for FO have dried up. I was recently told that EK is looking for 100 direct entry captains this year alone. They already have 700 FOs employed, so I would figure that command for a new joiner now must be closer to 7yrs than the 3yrs it was, or to 3.5 to 4yrs for a Bus FO there now.
With the new goings on at Jet star, the unease at QF and the new CX FO positions on the east coast, things are far from boring in Oz aviation at the moment.

Now, that was bloody well said.

Hey 146

yep I am an F/O and no I havent been by passed by any DEC as you put it.
My post wasnt about the DEC or about commands...it was just a insight into the reality and frustration of living in the sand.

I guess by the way you say you are nearly set up for life that you will be packing it in soon and heading home. congratulations:ok:

my question to you is....... why dont you do another 14yrs and make a real go of it and become a 20yr man. I gues if you have come from a third world country flying over loaded under performing aircraft for next to no salary the middle east would be a great option.

But where I come from its not like that and I was just letting a few mates back in Aussie and NZ know that its not all roses.

You cant fool me or anyone else up here 146 and I know that deep down inside you know exactly what I am talking about .....and probably feel the same as the rest of us:E

Like I said in my post I am stuck here for a while but I am working hard to undo all that has been done to get me and my family back home to a normal life paying tax and being free.


TR

just saw this on the Middle east forum......something to think about


thanks to Cerebus.:ok:


Emirates to Cathay Actual Pay Comparison
We have al read the post that say a CX 'Toilet Attendant' earns more than an EK 'Universe Fleet Chief Pilot' so I thought I'd do some research.

Got my info from an open website which has the actual gen. (all in US Dollars). The site I looked at says that variable pay and housing allowances are not included for Cathay so I have not included them for EK either. I believe Cathay's variable pay is somewhat better than EK's though. Leave, medical and insurance etc seem comparable. Hong Kong tax takes about 16%; about the same as hidden taxes in Dubai. (Updated Feb 06)

Emirates

F/O $60,065-$69,331 (6 years)

Capt $87,040-$92,341 (3 years) $116,975 (10 years)

Cathay

S/O $49,878-$70,078 JFO $76,522

F/O $99,483-$104,645 SFO $108,000-$122,000

Capt $152,000- (I think becomes Snr Capt after 2 years)
Snr Capt $157,000-$186,000 (10 years) $210,580 (17yrs)


So, sadly by my reckoning:

1. A CX snr SO actually does earn more than a jnr EK F/O.
2. And; a CX F/O does earn more than an EK Capt.
3. A CX SFO earns more than a 10 year EK Capt.
4. And; a CX Capt earns 75% more than a EK Capt on appointment.

Thank god we have quick commands at EK, no DECs, a great rostering system, all the leave we could possibly want.....what we don't?

I have to be honest I actually found the figures quite shocking, I was planning to disprove the other posts. Hong Kong is a bit more expensive than Dubai but the fact is:

Permission to start blubbering, Sir!

Cerberus:{

Tail Rota,

Obviously there is a pay difference but.. you're not paying tax in Dubai and accomodation is supplied, petrol for the mota is about 30p a litre I think? Beer from the licenced outlet ain't too bad either.

So can you compare on an equal basis?

Blue Foot

PS. I heard EK have asked Airbus if it's possible to park up their new planes for a while due lack of crews?

Ahh another one has fallen for the old "tax-free" line.

Yes there is not income tax in Dubai... YET.

But there is a tax on booze. Very expensive to drown your sorrows unless you bootleg it through Sharjah from the hole-in-the-wall.

There is a municipal tax and there are service charges applied to just about everything.

Did I mention the lifestyle tax?

Fuel, a sore point in Aust, has nevertheless gone up about 40 or 50% in only TWO price hikes in the last 3 years.

A VAT is supposedly just around the corner.

Income tax is also under discussion, at differing rates for expats/locals, of course, if the locals are even taxed at all.

Interestingly, they still have a "duty-free" shop at the airport which does a roaring trade hooking in other suckers who fall for the tax-free line. Strange since there is supposedly no tax.

One thing that IS tax-free is tobacco. We can't go taxing fags, now can we? (That's the "fags" you puff on, not the other kind.... wait, let me re-phrase that....:yuk: )

Tail Rota you say you have come from dunnunda with massive credit card debts, mortgage and car loan. Well I'll get out my violin and start playing Romanian Tradgedy in E minor for you. I came out of the UK seven years ago in a similiar situation with debt. You must have got lucky to have been able to have a few pounds over to get into the real estate market. Point is aviation in the UK was/is unpredictable and pilots are generally underpaid and overworked. Here you are worked the same but enjoy tax free remuneration, accomodation and many other niceties.

As for my longevity here, I will decide if I desire to become a "twenty-year man" but rest assured it will have nothing to do with "......getting me and my family back home to a normal life paying tax and being free." It will be decided on whether or not the next job is as good as or better than my current one.

I can remember the hard knocks in this industry and I can tell you, for me, this is a good job ! :ok:

P.S. I'll let you decide if the UK is a third world.

Tail Rota,
You say no DE commands, but, a mate of mine has just got a 777 DE command at EK, and had no previous wide body time.
I believe their will be many more.

ur2:

Hard to read tone from written words I know, but sarcasm is alive and well within these threads.

Sorry for the belated reply Ron and Edna, but the only words ringing in GDs ears if he saw 200 pilots head to the sand pit will be....."B SCALE!" :mad:

Blue foot
 

Hi Blue Foot, you mention that EK gives you free housing, however Cathay, thru the housing allowance, will pay off your mortgage, so you own your house here. Its another "revenue stream" to use managment-speak.:E Or, they will pay your rent, so its the same as having a house provided. Petrol here is around 13HKD/litre, which is 1.70USD/litre, not sure how that stacks up but the public transport here is so good, there is no need for cars anyway.
Now for the really important stuff; Beer can be had from the B scale bar (7-11) for 10ish HKD per can (1.25USD).:ok: AND, you can drink it anywhere, and I mean anywhere, buses, ferrys etc. It does go up to around 50HKD when you head out to town, but judging by the number of westerners in a numbed up state, it doesn't seem to stop them!!:E :p
Tail Rota, thats an informative and interesting post, I had thought EK payed quite similar.
Nosey

hi ya blue foot

Baghdaddy has outlined some of the tax issues......beer and wine is taxed up here at in Dubai at 30% and thats on top of the price after importation. we pay similar prices to the guys back home but they put 30% on top for the privilliage of buying alcohol. oh ...... and you must be licienced to buy it and store it at home.
as far as parked up planes go I haveheard the 777's have been difficult to crew and some have been parked on various days due lack of crew. Herad a great rumour about two A340's not being crewed Xmas day due lack of crew.....so things are getting tight.

UR2 yes mate DEC's are here ....... and more are coming. I believe about 100 over the next 12 months or so. this issue has been long standing here since my arrival. but even the DEC contract isnt the bees knees. it doesnt matter what seat you are in ...you are still subjected to all frustrations of living up here.

146...the UK is most definitly not third world ...however after being on layovers there for the past few years in London, Birmingham and Manchester....I can see how dubai may offer a little better life style for ya. the dirham to the pound isnt that good at the moment but am glad you are happy.:ok:

TR

ps: its raining today as I woke up...(very rare up in these parts)we are not going to leave the house ........ as the roads will be carnage today and I expect the papers to publish another day of record accidents due to people driving too close to fast and not being able to stop because of the slippery roads. hopefully no deaths but its Dubai and I expect at least a couple.

beer @ 100 dhs / case all in
gas is still cheap
fees /taxes wrt property only apply to those how are not in company provided housing @ 250 pilots(expat)
no end in sight to the block hours coming down ie 100/month for the rest of your life
new hire F/O should be looking at 5-7 years for upgrade
100 upgrades on the airbus this year, based on 346's coming ,so that's old news now, your guess is as good as any
@100 DECs for the 777 ,they failed last time with the airbus
If T/C's don't change we will have a hard time getting 396 pilots this year
US recruiting drive will not get the response they want,777 DEC's, they think the package is a joke
The new villas at Oasis City are not that bad , flew with 2 guys going out there and are looking forward to it,
Some guys are being told to move or pay the difference , housing department not being very reasonable to deal with
Schools don't seem to be a problem lately and the fees seem to be almost covered except ASD/DAA elementary , please correct me if wrong

BA146 if you're nearly "set up" after six years in the middle east (I presume you mean financially set up), you're not working for EK, or you've just won the Arab equivalent of Tattslotto. EK does not pay that much.
Maybe you mean another "set up".

"Death but First Bongo"
 

According to reliable sources, flying for Emirates is not unlike the old joke "Death or Bongo?"

But after what has happend to conditions of service in Australia, perhaps the low cost culprits do deserve 'Death by Bongo'. With the cruel end being perpetrated by managers with names like Mohammed or Jassim, instead of the desert island, native sodomites in the Bongo joke! :}

ys120fz

mate that was hilarious...I couldnt stop laughing.....:ok: :ok: :ok:

If you come to Dubai with a family and you have a job flying jets in Oz then you are a goose.

Dubai is a modern form of apartheid where local citizens have all the rights and temporary residents have few.

Temporary residents, that is anyone who must requalify for a visa every three years, can only own property (and there is still some question at the federal level as to whether they own anything) in designated zones. Sort of Soweto for the middle class.

In matters of the law only locals are guaranteed fair or favoured treatment. Try flipping the bird to a large car with blacked out windows as it cuts you off in the rush to get to the next coffee house. Or try seeing justice done when you are a young women gang raped by six young men after stumbling out of a club and then having two of them get off on lack of evidence and the rest get no more than two years.

The paper today states that the UAE is officially the most dangerous place in the world to drive. I'm sorry Saudi is the worst, the UAE is next.

Even though the industrial climate in Oz is changing for pilots, try having no protection. The companies reaction to most things is 'if you don't like it leave'. That's a big call when you've already moved everyone half way round the world at considerable cost and stress. Try having an accident in an aeroplane and see how much help you get from the bosses. The last lads who tried were first sacked, then reinstated to mindless ground jobs on appeal and two years later given their positions back, although the captain became an FO. Admittedly they must take some responsibility for what happened but the systemic failures were so big we lost tribes of mice in the cheese. We have a saftey department but they can't tell us about major accidents of our own for fear of the information getting out. It's a secret you see, even to our own pilots.

With or without DECs you will be looking at quite a few years on FO's pay before command. If you have kids expect not to have much left over for the pleasure of making the sheikhs even richer men. If your a DEC you'll love it though, as long as flying 90-100 hours a month in MFF, not getting leave when you want it having to ask for permission to leave Dubai is your thing.

Otherwise it's all good, new aeroplanes, lots of different nationalities to fly with, they pay you on time within a day or two and you'll learn how admired we Aussies are by the kiwis, poms and yarpies.

EK Email
 

For those interested, I got the email pasted below, today. For background, I put in a token application post Ansett collapse in 2001, but was never really serious about the sand pit. However, all of a sudden, they seem to be keen.
"I am writing to you in relation to your application to join Emirates as Flight crew. We are currently reviewing your application and to process further we require you to update in full all required details.
Please access our website at www.emiratesgroupcareers.com
Here you will find our latest requirements as well as a link to the on-line application.
Thank you for your interest in Emirates"

That used to be "death by Boonga!" :rolleyes:

When I was young it was "death by Bunjeeee":eek:

Just recieved the following by email:

Emirates Airlines of Dubai, UAE are conducting information and simulator evaluation sessions in Australia, and one information session in Auckland during April for Captain and First Officer positions. Interested pilots may attend an open day as detailed below.


Australia Information Sessions:

Hilton Airport Hotel,
Melbourne Airport
1st April from 1330 to 1700
7th April from 1400 to 1800

Duxton Hotel
No 1 St. Georges Terrace
Perth, WA
2nd April from 1400 to 1800

Sofitel Wentworth,
61-101 Phillip Street
Sydney, NSW
3rd April from 1800-2030

Sofitel Brisbane
249 Turbot Street
Brisbane, QLD
4th April from 1130 to 1430

New Zealand Information Session:

Centra Auckland Airport
Corner of Kirkbride & Ascot Road,
Airport Oaks
Auckland
6th April from 0900-1200


Simulator evaluations are scheduled to take place in Melbourne during the first two weeks of April. Suitably qualified applicants with an active online application will be considered for a simulator evaluation. Minimum requirements may be viewed at www.emiratesgroupcareers.com where applications may be made for Captain and First Officer positions.


We look forward to meeting with you at one of our sessions.

Thank you for your interest in Emirates.

Emirates Pilot Recruitment