PPRuNe Forums - Racing to the bottom.

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- - Racing to the bottom. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/163127-racing-bottom.html)

Gentlemen and others, we do not nor is it our role to have a position on this issue.

PPRuNe is here to enable you to discuss fully and vigourously if necessary any matters aviation.

If we have a position it is that posters distinguish themsleves here by both the quality of their argument and the manner in which they conduct themselves.

It is about the facts and circumstances, ideas and opinions surrounding the issues NOT playing the MAN/WOMAN or your personal perception imagined or otherwise of him or her, .

So let's play nice shall we and give the other side the respect that you expect in return.

We might all learn something.

I have come close to locking this thread on several occasions with one thread ban already.

It makes my life much easier just to lock it.

Posts not directly addressing the issue and containing any personal slights or snipes will be deleted.

Its up to you.

Disposable Income

What everyone seems to forget is that the higher your disposable income the more goods you are able to purchase.These goods need to created/manufactured by someone..creating employment and income and so on.Taxes and unemployment reduce demand and ultimately jobs..anticyclical.I accept and understand that high income earners also purchase a lot of imported goods ,creating BOP problems.We need import replacement.Our economic growth is limited by a finite workforce.
Therein lies another problem.Labour like anything else is governed by supply and demand.Asia is going to expand rapidly over the next ten years and with it travel and aviation.Factor in retirement and you are looking at a shortage of personnel(pilots etc)It is human nature to go for the bucks.Some airlines growth will restricted by a finite number of qualified personnel...the worm is turning.The laws of supply and demand prevail.The ascendancy of the employee is beginning.Lets hope we and the government dont screw up the coming opportunities

edit. had a few drinks, my post made no sence to me either!

continue!

sorry PAF, miss read that bit.

You're clutching at straws PAF.

89 was 15 years ago - I would sugggest that the industrial situation has changed markedly since then!!

Nurses in NSW are going for more than 4% per year becuase others in the medical profession have gotten 5% per year.

I stand by my statement that union claims these days are different (and more responsible) than 15 years ago. As Ultralights said, 10% may have been an opening gambit in the case you cite. You don't start negotiating with your best possible outcome (unless you're AIPA).

Quote:

The Australian Education Union is disrupting Victoria's education system in pursuit of a 30 percent pay increase, the Minister for Education and Training, Lynne Kosky, said today.

Ms Kosky said the AEU claim, which includes a 30 per cent pay increase, would cost the tax payer $2.7 billion, which is more than one third of the annual education budget.

"The AEU is walking away from discussions at the negotiating table to take needless industrial action that will only impact on students and parents across Victoria," Ms Kosky said.

That was a year and a half ago.

Unions don't change.

Quote:

It wasn't until I realised that almost all work conditions are NEGOTIATED and agreed upon by employers, and the employees' representatives - the unions - that I realised that workers have just as much right to expect the NEGOTIATED conditions to be fulfilled, as did the employer!

All fairly common sense really, I'm surprised that you hadn't worked it out earlier... but then again I thought PAF was the naive one?

Pass-A-Frozo,

I respect your right to an opinion,

I'm interested in your thoughts in comparing 'extravagant' union wage claims of 10% per year against the corporate excess shown by CEOs' and Board Members, awarding themselves pay rises sometimes in excess of 60-70-80% per year?

Remembering that these CEOs' etc donot need an association or union to represent them as they simply vote these payrises for themselves.

I would also like to know the full story behind the Toyota wage claims;

When was their last pay rise? (inflation has a very insidious affect on personal wealth etc)

What wage increases have middle and upper management received in the same time?

What productivity gains have been achieved by the workers?

How much time has been lost in the last 3 years due to industrial disputes?

In regard to the Teachers Union in Victoria, perhaps they are just reacting to the enormous excess within the Bracks Government. The wage increases are a matter of public record. Comment?

PointOFive. Please let Pass-A-Frozo answer this post, I'm sure he doesn't need you to defend him. I could also PM you an explanation of the union shopper comment, however they don't fit into a text book situation so may be a little hard to understand, just let me know?

Regards and apologies for the sometimes strongly worded past posts.

matca (not matco)

Quote:

PointOFive. Please let Pass-A-Frozo answer this post, I'm sure he doesn't need you to defend him.

Apologies, I should have known better than to attempt a form of collective bargaining when debating this topic.:ugh:

Quote:

I could also PM you an explanation of the union shopper comment, however they don't fit into a text book situation so may be a little hard to understand, just let me know?

The Shop-A-Docket comment was a joke... and not a bad one at that.:)

I don't recall making any references to text books, so I don't know where you are coming from there. I think it's quite clear that nobody has ever learned anything useful from books and that Mr Hitler knew exactly what to do with them. :hmm:

PointOFive,

Dood: Apology Accepted. (I knew you coouldn't help yourself!)

Pass-A-Frozo????