Virgin Syd-Canberra-Syd Services Under Threat
Virgin's Canberra-Sydney link under threat
7:27 PM July 14 Virgin Blue is renewing its threats to axe flights out of Canberra unless the Federal Government increases its share of the lucrative Commonwealth travel market. Public servants currently use Qantas for around 85 per cent of their travel, with only around 15 per cent of flights going to budget airlines. Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey says the Commonwealth travel market is worth around $300 million and he wants the Government to use his airline 30 per cent of the time. With the airline only attracting about 5 per cent of all government travel, Mr Godfrey says the Canberra to Sydney daily flight is now under review. "I believe yes, that's (30 per cent) very attainable," he said. "If that's our market share - we're very relevant for the top corporates in this country, we're very relevant for budget travellers in this country, and pretty much for everyone in the middle - that's our national percentage, we believe that should also apply for Federal Government. "We're only one flight now, we had three, we had to pull it back. "Again, when the biggest business in town doesn't support you, which they didn't a couple of years ago, it just doesn't make any business sense whatsoever to continue those services." Source: ABC |
Can't win market share any more so start demanding it! Typical of the Virgin management, I'm surprised that whinging Huttner character wasn't wheeled out to give yet another 'poor us' story to the media. Just shows how poorly they understand the Commonwealth travel market.
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BCD, nice bit of cut'n'paste ... here's what DJ had to say on their website.
Virgin Blue Federal Government Information Day Virgin Blue Chief Executive, Brett Godfrey and the Department of Transport Secretary, Ken Matthews, will today co-facilitate an airline information day for Federal Government executives in Canberra. The day has been specifically organised to allow Federal Government employees to meet with other Governments and private companies that have managed to substantially improve their bottom line by adopting a ‘Best Fare of the Day’ Policy for air travel. The low fare airline recently welcomed moves by the Commonwealth Government to change its one-airline travel strategy to a policy of ‘Best Fare of the Day’ including Virgin Blue, following recommendations from the Len Early Report. Since this time Virgin Blue has been working closely with the Department of Finance and Administration’s newly formed "Travel Forum" to assist Government Departments to effortlessly book Virgin Blue as part of their travel policy. Virgin Blue Chief, Brett Godfrey, said, “Virgin Blue is an award winning airline offering convenient services, an extensive network and cost effective solutions for corporate travellers and we are very happy our federal public servants now have the opportunity to seek the best value for taxpayer’s money when making their travel bookings.” Since Virgin Blue launched nearly four years ago it has achieved unprecedented growth and now operates more than 280 flights a day to 21 destinations, including every state and territory capital city and many regional ports. As Virgin Blue continues to expand both its fleet and network, the people of Canberra have benefited with the increase of direct flight options from Canberra to Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and the Gold Coast, and through fares to most of the carrier’s Australian, New Zealand and Pacific Island destinations. A number of keynote speakers will be present at today’s information day to discuss important factors in relation to corporate and government travel strategy, cost effective solutions for travel purchasing and competition in Australia’s domestic airline market. Brett Godfrey added, “I’m pleased to be attending this information day to personally showcase our airline’s products and services to those who represent the interests of the people of Australia." |
VB may whinge a bit but I think that the taxpayers have a right to be sure that the public servants aren't patronizing a higher cost carrier simply so they can keep up their FF points and enjoy the scotch in the Qantas lounges. Surely the auditor-general could keep track of what fares were used vs what was available on other carriers?
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Elektra I agree, but the fact remains that the contracts signed between airlines and the Public Service guarantee them a set low cost fare as part of the contractual agreement.
Couple that with the fact that they are getting a known level of service with QF domestic and the fact that most Pubes like to have a hot meal tends to sway the argument. Look at when Ansett replaced A320/B737 services with Regional Jets with no hot meal facilities. The public service travellers almost revolted in Vic/Tas!!! I agree with Slim. Here they are now demanding market share and take the standard hard done-by whingeing stance as always. The opposition is growing, they are starting to feel the pinch in terms of competition and guess who doesnt like it???? But then again thats just what public servants need - Brett Godfrey addressing them and whingeing about lack of patronage on his behalf!! |
I work fo a Government psuedo business type thing. We used to soley book the Qantas negotiated fully changeable super tickets. The contract has recently expired. Now we have been given direction to check the internet or call the other carriers to see if we can get a cheapie first.
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Perhaps the fact that Dj only operate one single flight per day has something to do with it? After all, I'd imagine that one thing that is desirable for public servants is some sort of flexibility. To me, this would be one of the greatest factors working against DJ in this market.
Godfrey will no doubt argue that if the government patronised the service more, that Virgin would be more willing to add extra flights, while the governments point of view is most likely that it will provide greater patronisation once there is a greater number of flights. So - who's going to make the big decision that will lead to change? Judging by the :{ , it will obviously not be Godfrey & his team at DJ....:rolleyes: |
Maybe people have finally woken up. Cheap air fare + pay foreverything else adds up to more than the QF fare. So the best value for money is QF.
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If VB has one flight each day into Canberra from Sydney, it shows that no one was using them to fly into Canberra either, and that is not the Government's fault. The fact is a 737-700 is too much aeroplane for a short flight, and VB could not make money between Canberra even with three full planes per day.
VB management does not like turboprops, which are what Qantas uses for most CBRSYD flights. Even the VB CBRBNE flights are not well timed to give a Canberra person a good day's business in BNE |
The problem with Canberra/Sydney for DJ is simply frequency... or lack of it. Not just for Government travel but also leisure.
QF has at least one flight an hour. At peak times more. DJ has one flight ALL day. In addition they only cater for CBR/SYD travel. There is no AM flight SYD/CBR. Thats makes it impossible for business travel. Even give away prices dont necessarily work if the time is so inconvenient. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a ticket CBR/SYD with DJ for $19. But their only flight was at 0645. I didnt need to be in Sydney until late in the day so rather then lose a days work I paid a much higher fare to travel when I wanted too. :D |
I, as a tax payer, help to fund the the public servants!
I expect the majority of Gov. air travel to use the cheapest available, no 1st, no Bus. class or whatever, ECONOMY and FF points accured go into a pool, to help fund other public servant travel. They have no right to use the FF points, as we, the taxpayers have paid for the tickets, not them. If they don't like it, lets start a forum, to get together a concerned group to bring pressure on the Gov. prior to the election.to bring this about. Also, Virgin Blue must be used at least 50% if not more. QF, are still far to protected, they are no longer an Australian Airline, ( Aust. Gov. owned, US, YOU and I , that is ) and if the foreign owners and local management end up going down the same path as AN, then tough. The solution, the Oz. Gov. should reclaim our ( TAXPAYERS ) old airline, and change the QF management, ASAP. As to you Virgin Blue knockers, BELT UP, GET A LIFE!!!! Credentials, Recently retired, long time International Boeing Captain, ( glass cockpit ) with a bit of Douglas, Lockheed, NA and the good old DH82 to start the ball rolling. Cheers :ok: |
Imagine them whingeing on an International basis;
"You wont give us any slots into XXXXX but if you did we would fly there....OK?" Robroy, the fact is that VB couldn't make the services pay to Canberra with good loadings - pure and simple. Public servants only cater for a certain percentage of loadings to Canberra and believe it or not the families of Canberra residents keep the route alive in terms of patronage. As someone said, if VB were to put on more suitable flights that would cater for the business traveller/public servant then that would help their cause. Re -privatise QF Robroy? Now there would be a great way for public servants to piss mega-bucks down a hole and improve competition !! The fact is that VB's costs are escalating, the competition is getting harder and their share price is depressed with little industry/shareholder confidence otherwise. Now is the time a truly skillful and gifted CEO earns his keep and not by using the old and worn out whinge factor about how they are being hard done by. It reaks of amateurism the way they patronise the public by expecting them to believe every little thing they squeal about. Stop bleating Huttner and Godfrey and start doing the jobs you're paid for, for Gods sake!! |
Today's 'Canberra Times' carries an article by David Seale, the short version of which is that Regional Express (REX) CEO Geoff Breust says his airline is having significant difficulty in attracting public service bookings despite offering a plethora of cheap seats.
The article goes on to say that REX started in Canberra with 11 return services to Sydney each day; it now has six and that if bookings don't pick up in the next two months, it will be forced to leave the market. Although not stated, there would doubtless be job losses if REX left the Canberra market. I've flown to and from Canberra via REX on several occasions. I found the schedule to be convenient, the aircraft clean, the service good and the staff friendly and efficient. There's a suggestion that public servants prefer QANTAS because it offers QANTAS Club membership packages at discount rates in return for business loyalty. This conveniently ignores the fact that public service running costs are met from public funds. There's an obligation on public servants to spend taxpayers' funds economically and efficiently. Unfortunately, in the 'my rights and entitlements' mindset endemic in the public sector, economy and efficiency seem to be beyond the capacity of many public servants to comprehend. Put another way, it simply beggars belief that senior public sector managers, most of whom have never been exposed to commercial risk, can condone more perks for 'fat cats' at the taxpayers' expense with scant regard for the jobs of fellow Australians. I'm not normally a fan of management by direction. But in this case, it seems that a KITA needs to be administered to those in charge of public service travel to ensure that there's a fair go all round, including the taxpayer. |
Yes, and i wonder who'll be whinging when SYD-CBR becomes a monopoly market again. Mr and Mrs Joe(line) Public.
Not Qantas, that's for sure! Just watch those fares rise!!! |
Timee could you explain to us how VB's costs have escalated? If I wasn't mistaken, VB's $ASK actually dropped this year as announced to the stock market a few months ago. Its down below that of J* I believe.:confused:
Its been 4 years now and you guys are still Whinging about Godfreys Whinging. Its never gonna stop so GET OVER IT:ok: |
Its a problem when facts get in the way of a good whine isn't it.
Most if not all C'wealth agencies have an "outsourced" travel provider - AMEX Travel, Carlson Wagon-Lits etc - which was forced on them by the Government. In the bad old days they used to have one or two "Travel Clerks" doing the same thing, only cheaper. These "providers" are tasked in ticketing travellers on the best fare of the day - simple as that. Doesn't matter which carrier. And very few of the travellers are in Business Class. And FF points which accrue to the traveller, not the ticket purchaser, are used where possible to travel thus saving the government money. Of course, we all know just how easy it is to redeem these points don't we. Oh, and that FF or Club membership - it comes out of the individual's pocket - only the very upper echelon get any perks like that. The bottom line is that if Rex or Virgin have the best fare that day, they get the business. Here's a classic example of "best fare" - try to travel SYD-SEL and you'll gat a quote from QF and OZ with a price differential of around $800 with OZ being the cheaper. Its a QF/OZ codeshare so whichever fare paid its the same aircraft. And QF complains that they don't get as much government business as they used before. |
Bugsmasha
Fuel prices would be a very large increase in DJ’s bottom-line and ASK’s because of their lack of any fuel hedge. Most carries in the region SQ, CX, QF, hedged fuel before it got really high but not DJ. This could be for a number of reasons. They didn’t think that they would get this high and/or remain this high for this long and/or the most likely reason is that their cash reserves are not yet sufficient enough (they have only been around 4 years) to hedge fuel on a meaningful scale. |
DOME
Its a problem when facts get in the way of a good whine isn't it. The Canberra Times report I mentioned notes that Qantas Business Travel administers a domestic air travel contract with the Department of Defence, estimated to be worth around $150 million per year. The report also mentions that QF enjoys a similar contract with the Department of Transport and Regional Development. Nice work if you can get it - especially with guaranteed account payment from public funds. But what really raises the eyebrow is the lack of transparency and arm’s lengthness in such an arrangement - a critical issue given jobs are on the line and that the whole operation is financed from the public purse. What independent guarantee is there that QF Business Travel, when booking public service travel, doesn't exploit its glaring conflict of interest to the detriment of its competitors? |
I can just see Michael Carmody and Peter Cosgrove sitting in their seats doing a Mexican wave and counting how many squares there are on the toilet roll.
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Argus,
It might be appropriate to ask whether the QANTAS travel providers were contracted thru a tender process by the organisations which use them - I suspect so; and perhaps those organisations might be asked what their oversight provisions are. If you are a C'wealth employee you would know that travel is very well overseen - much more so than for a politician for example - and the penny pinching forced on agencies usually means that travel budgets are first to go. All that said and getting back to the point - if Virgin don't have a product, it won't sell. On a personal note I booked a flight BNE and return yesterday - QF were A$3 (yes 3!) cheaper - and more importantly had better departure and arrival times. |
DOME
I'm not a public servant. However, I am a taxpayer. As such, and with respect, I take some exception to the glib way in which public servants are dismissive of any criticism of their taxpayer funded profligacy. In a recent report, the ACT Auditor General expressed concern about improper travel procedures and the lack of accountability in the use of frequent flier points by ACT public servants. The Auditor concluded that government agencies had not taken full advantage of benefits available under frequent flier schemes and other travel services. As a taxpayer, I'm concerned that some government employees don't feel the need to obtain the best possible value for the taxpayers' funds they spend. I'm also concerned that Australian jobs in companies like Rex and VB are at risk because some public servants don't like the 'no frills' service on short flights between Canberra and Sydney. These positions are not mutually exclusive. If public servants think it's all too hard, then I respectfully suggest they look for work elsewhere, possibly in an environment where their own after tax capital is at risk. |
Argus
I have to respectfully disagree with you. As they say in private enterprise, time is money. Now I may not be a taxpayer in Australia anymore thank god, as the governments down there tax you to the eye balls and piss the money up against the wall on stupid stuff like single mothers pensions and family bonuses instead of important stuff like building decent roads, but I do commend them on not wasting their time and your tax payer dollars on waiting for inconvenient flights. DJ only has one flight a day between Canberra and Sydney. No wonder they aren’t picking up the government work. I would also suggest they aren’t picking up much private business work either. If they did the smart thing and increase frequency to match QF then they might pick up the work. Mind you QF does use a Dash 8 so can afford to have a higher frequency. I guess that is the big problem with the low cost model. If you only operate one aircraft type it doesn’t leave you much room to maneuver with frequency with marginal load factors. |
404 Titan
DJ only has one flight a day between Canberra and Sydney. as the governments down there tax you to the eye balls I do commend them on not wasting their time and your tax payer dollars on waiting for inconvenient flights. It's not the wasting of time that's the issue, although many public servants have first class honours degrees in time mismanagement. It's the deliberate avoidance of other than QF because the competition doesn't offer the same 'perks'; forcing airlines like Rex to cut back on staff, some of whom are ex Ansett employees and have been down the redundancy path before. |
Argus
Couldn’t give a rats **** about Rex. The thread is about DJ and how “THEY” are not getting the government work. If you want to start a different thread about Rex go for it. On this thread though please stick to the topic at hand and debate the topic and not try and divert the subject. |
404 Titan
Nice try. But if you review the posts, you'll find the case has somewhat altered since the initial 'cut and paste' by BCD. |
Argus
Yes by you on the first page of this thread. REX may have a genuin gripe but if you what to debate that start a new thread and don't hijack this one.:* |
404 Titan
I respectfully refer you to the second paragraph of the first post. Public servants currently use Qantas for around 85 per cent of their travel, with only around 15 per cent of flights going to budget airlines. |
Argus and 404 Titan you can BOTH be wankers if you like.
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I agree wholeheartedly with Argus.
You dont see Rex squealing and bleating to the media at the drop of a hat when things dont pan out their way. Its a sad indictment of VB's style of management that the media be addressed and the public be duped about them being the poor downtrodden airline whenever things dont go to plan. The public only see Brett Godfrey when he is whingeing and whining like an old Rolls Royce Dart engine and I reackon most are getting sick and tired of being patronised like fools. If you have a real gripe, maybe, but not every time things dont bode well. How often did the former AN management or QF management lock horns publically and blamed their problems on others? VB management style is to create a media circus with half truths and barely relevant facts. |
Well.....when we travel for work (a Government Department), we don't get FF points...haven't for several years now.
And pay for our Qantas Club membership out of our own pocket. However, we are also NOT OBLIGED to travel QF - if you need to go at a certain time and whatever airline (other than QF) flies at that time...you can request that airline. Did it out of Darwin two years ago - flew Ansett. Have flown Rex several times Syd - Canberra in recent times. And although they are quasi-official....have travelled to the UK (on business) with BA rahter than QF becasue the timing suited us better............. |
scran
And pay for our Qantas Club membership out of our own pocket. Then along came a wage round, where, thanks to the CPSU and some creative management accounting, the 'expenses of office' allowance was grossed up and included in salary (including salary for super purposes), as part of a wage rise for so called senior officers. Made the % wage rise look good but included spondulicks that the punters were already being paid from public funds in another guise for nibblies and grog. |
In other news...
"This is a disgraceful monopoly & we aren't going to take it from the Feds any more!" This was the cry of Barry Bumcrack, a local Canberra taxi driver, on the issue of "Commonwealth cars" and market share.
Mr. Bumcrack said it was about time that public servants called a cab instead of a limousine as it was wasting the Public monies. He also indicated that there would be fewer cabs on the Parliament rank if this "downward spiral" continued. "The public want to see their Prime Minister having a good look at one of our EF Falcons, on gas mind you, and then comparing the value when he looks at his fancy LTD with satelite navigation & DVD players. This is the message he should be sending to ordinary Australians who just want a fair go!" He went on to describe how, with advanced warning, he could even ensure that the windows would be down for "our Prime Ministers comfort". "The bottom line is that these EF Falcons, on gas, are good for the economy, good for Australians and good enough for my Mum! And we think there should be legislation passed to ensure that EF Falcons are seen on Capitol hill for all the following generations to enjoy!" The Federal Government declined to comment. |
Can't it be summarised as:
1. B737 lousy choice of a/c for SYD-CBR-SYD (unless you want to lose money). 2. Blame the politicians instead of taking the blame as a well-meaning (but poor) DJ management decision. In some ways I reckon it would be funny if the government called their bluff and split the travel 50/50 on that sector. I still can't see DJ preventing a loss but would be curious as to what would get blamed then... |
GT-R
Argus and 404 Titan you can BOTH be wankers if you like. Argus Public servants currently use Qantas for around 85 per cent of their travel, with only around 15 per cent of flights going to budget airlines. |
Argus - Absolutely true for me.
I'm a "public servant" that wears the same style of clotehs to work each day (although occassionally I pretend to be a tree... ;) And I pay for it directly out of my pocket (and I'm above an APS 6 equivalent :E ) :ok: :ok: :ok: |
404 Titan
No problem. Scran And I pay for it directly out of my pocket (and I'm above an APS 6 equivalent |
As sad as it sounds, I too have joined the ranks of the great unwashed in the Public Service. For the record, I got my own FF account on the rat, but I had it before joining, to be fair.
I imagine that most organisations have some form of Fringe Benefit that their employees can enjoy, but the Public Service is quite different. Where I am, the best I can do is flex time, and a rather expensive Novated lease option. Perhaps other areas have better perks than my area, but suffice to say that if an employee of any firm, public or private, is required to travel for their work, surely they can expect some flow on benefit to ensue? If Virgin are so keen to get the Public traveller, why not match the competitions product? AN & QF battled for the hearts & dollars of Govt. accounts & it wasn't just price being used as ammunition. |
Buster Hyman
I imagine that most organisations have some form of Fringe Benefit that their employees can enjoy, but the Public Service is quite different. Where I am, the best I can do is flex time, and a rather expensive Novated lease option. |
Argus What else would I expect of a Liverpool supporter! ;) :p
Playing the Devils advocate for a bit here, so bear with me... Job security...I would imagine that in most cases, this is true. However, there is a general shift onto performance contracts etc and I don't think it's as secure as it was...but yes, way better than some Private mobs for sure. Personally, I'm on contract until 2008 & even then, I'll get a months notice if I'm caught reading Pprune!!! Generous paid leave...Again, perhaps with existing long term staff, but another area that's changing. I get 17.5% leave loading (same as AN for day workers) only noticeable difference is that I can take double the leave on half pay. Superior working environment...Well, the equipment might be nice & the OH&S emphasis is appreciated, but I meant what I said about the great unwashed!!!:ugh: Hourly smoko...Don't smoke & the others here have to travel down 48 floors to do it...not many smokers around & it's certainly not scheduled here. Super payment...9% industry standard here. Perhaps the higher levels get some other benefits & the historical funds may be better, but I think AN had an exceptional super scheme, hence all the litigation.:mad: As a generalisation, the Public Service is more than likely a better, overall employer than some other areas, but I just don't think it's what it used to be. If you think of Private companies & why they send staff in Business or First class, you should be able to apply the same standards, generally, to how the Public service chooses their carriers. I shan't elaborate as I think the Minister has just spotted me on Pprune!!!!!!:ugh: |
Buster Hyman
My last word on the subject - Evertonians speak with forked tongue! :ok: |
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