Qantas admits Arab 'terror' blunder
 

News.com

Qantas admits Arab 'terror' blunder
September 29, 2003

QANTAS admitted Monday that its cabin staff delayed a flight because they thought four Arabs travelling as guests of Australia's national air force might be terrorists.

Flight attendants on a domestic flight from Sydney to Perth raised the alarm after seeing three of the men sit in business class and a fourth in economy, an airline spokeswoman said.

Four flight attendants were concerned the passengers might be a security threat, and refused to allow the aircraft to take off. The airline was forced to replace the cabin crew and the plane left 69 minutes late.

Airline chief executive Geoff Dixon was furious and wanted the attendants dismissed, the Australian Financial Review reported. However, the Qantas spokeswoman said they still had their jobs.

The four men were from the United Arab Emirates. They apparently attracted suspicion because of their looks and the fact they were speaking a foreign language. The incident occurred earlier this month.

A Department of Defence spokeswoman said the four men were air force personnel who were in Australia to discuss air force to air force cooperation. They were travelling with an Australian military official at the time.

"They were here on an official visit at the invitation of the chief of the air force," the spokeswoman said.

Agence France-Presse

============================================

I would have been suspicious also. QF should have informed the crew beforehand they were air force personnel and this misunderstanding would not have happened.

Quite bloody right Qantarse everyone speaking anything but english should be made to walk! Except for the Irish they maybe IRA (and its no really english is it).:}

Probabaly trying to see what all the fuss was with the comparison between Qantas and Emirates.

At least Emirates don't worry too much about carrying Ozmates.

halas

Considering the standard of service on Qantas and what the UAE boys would have been used to flying Emirates, maybe they would have been happy to have been offloaded :E

I understand that the guys were wearing inappropriate shirts which made reference to "pilot training" and "jihad". Apparently there were communications "problems".

Everyone makes their own decision, but in this case the FA's decided to walk. No mention has been made of the replacement crew, or the Tech crew. Wonder what happened there?

I don't know anything about the incident so I am not making any presumptions but this is at least partly caused by the ridiculous media coverage of terrorism and all the beat-up associated with it. Because of their way in reporting and sensationalism the average westerner is starting to associate any arabs with terrorists or the like. Unfortunately thats what you get with a completely biased media here in Australia especially commercial networks, its a brainwashing of its citizens subvertly. This is just my general opinion, its not speciafically at this incident, although these sorts of things are a result.

Maybe the security training that QF flight attendants receive is inappropriate?

Wonder what the skipper had to say about it at the time?

Tshirts that made reference to "Pilot taining AND jihad"?Where do you get them? :confused:

halas

Where do you get the Tshirts?

Is it too cynical to suggest RAAF?,USAF?,RAF?

AoA Spot on:ok:

The state of the western world at the beginning of the millenium "Hypnotised & Hysterical"

It does my heart good to hear that this is the sort of quality opposition EK faces in the Oz market.

"They apparently attracted suspicion because of their looks and the fact they were speaking a foreign language."

Fancy that on an international airline! Geez what will we see next. Soon there will be Vietnemese food in Cabramatta and Italians dining out on pasta in Lygon street. It wont be long and the F/A union will be asking George W for a couple of tactical strikes to put all these suspicious foreigners in their place.

I hope they get the same treatment here, should QF ever gather the courage to compete with us over the same routes!

Oh and by the way, it sounds a little bit suspicious that these guys would be wearing evocative motifs on their T-shirts if they were travelling on Military business and accompanied by an Oz airforce official.

If GD can't, or wont, discipline these F/A's then it is a sad indication of where QF is headed.

Cop U Later

The Rev

Well,stereotyping individuals with looks and appearances seems to be the order of the day these 'terrorised' days just like u can spot an OZ dancing barefooted in a London upmarket club

It's good though that the QF flight attendant group are privy to identifying any member associated with the (In a forboding voice) "Axis of Evil" !!!!

These sus blokes had obviously sampled QF service before, and maybe the flight attendants didn't get it, as these punters were deliberately hamming it up by being foreign and speaking funny:}

halas

Qantas - Airline Action
 

"Crew Replaced for refusing to fly Arabs"

Sydney (Reuters) Australian airline Qantas replaced four crew who refused to fly because they were suspicious of four Arab passengers who turned out to be VIP guests of the country's air force.
Qantas airways has admitted the incident - which media said enraged chief executive Geoff Dixon - but only said the crew was now being "counselled". Dixon has not commented on the incident publicly.
The goof up happened early this month when four Gulf Citizens boarded a flight from Sydney to Perth - three in business class and one in economy.
"They were in Australia on an official visit at the invitation of chief of the air force," a spokeswoman for the Australian defence department said. Despite being accompanied by a Royal Australian Air Force officer, the delegation alarmed the four crew members.
The plane finally departed more than an hour behind schedule after a new crew was called up, an Australian newspaper said.

Given that every successful act of terrorism seems to have been committed by a male or males of middle eastern appearance and in the 30 to 40 yr age group, going back as far as PanAm , Lockerbie, and that airport security targets little old ladies and any one not of male, 30/40 yr middle eastern appearance, I don't see any problem with the F/A's being concerned with having a group of them on their flight.

Wasn't this the scenario on Sept 11 ?

Personally, I would have had serious concerns and would have eliminated my personal risk factor by opting out of that flight for a later one.

In this life we all make our own calls, and I have no problem with that of the crew on this flight.

perhaps the gentlemen concerned may have been a bit more sensitive to the image and fears that their neighbours have engendered over the years.

I'm quite sure that El Al management may have been more supportive of the intuition of their cabin staff.

Perhaps the gentlemen may have dressed as Air Force officers instead of emulating the classic terrorist profile and avoided the concern they caused.

I'm not from Sydney or Melbourne, just live in an Anglo Saxon part of Australia, and perhaps that influences me a little as well.

The public knowlwdge of this incident is:

4 pax, 3 business, 1 ecomony of the dreadedME appearance
They know one another
Tshirts with nasty things on them

Good reason for questions which shows initially

They are accompaned by a RAAF Officer

Next it is established, (and assume very quickly) who they are and who paid for the tickets

But the trolly dollys know best and behave as normally thinkings that the real checks don't mean anything. and they can be even more offensive

Baltic Exchange...
Canary Wharf...
Warrington...
Omagh...
Sundry incidents in the Basque country..

Yeah, loads of Arabs involved in those....

And don't forget that very "Arabic" Timothy McVey!!

Sounds like the Qantas mistake was in not backing up the pilot.

Mainframe are you serious? Sure we make our own calls in life, and the crew did just that. They decided that being cabin crew for a national carrier was not for them.. Qantas advertises all around the world for people to visit Oz and fly on their crap airline. It is not good enough for crew to then decide not to fly with them. Be security aware indeed, voice your concerns, have the checks done then get on with it. I they can't handle that then open a coffee shop in Paddo.

Hey Wiz,
 

and let's not forget the Arab members of the IRA, BAder Meinhoff and JI, just to name a few other exceptions. :yuk: :yuk:

Errr, I think Steamchicken kind of did CC!

Or how about Tim Anderson...or did he get aquitted?

I agree that, once again, highly strung emotion has come to play in the decision making process of some F/A's. Would be foolish to underestimate the possibility of emotion and intuition in reports to the Flight Deck coming from the Cabin. Have seen it myself on occassion and a good lesson.

Crew Resource Management may have given CabinCrew a bit too much power in walking off flights-have seen it myself-despite reassurances from from operating pilots.

CRM a powerful tool but maybe the Cabin Crew need some cold and hard lessons in decision making, and the responsibility and accountability that comes with it, before flippantly taking their emotional feelings as professionalism, under the guise and protection of CRM.

And in a very Australian way some of the above have dismissed the threat we are possibly engaged with. Don't think for one minute that money from a oil rich and spiritual homeland,doesn't finds it's way to the places of worship on the sub-continent and then onto similar right on our doorstep. And to hundreds of millions of these devout people Australia is at war with them. Or so is the poisoned words coming from some of their places of worship. And slowly they are learning to fight the West.

.

Whats the "sub-continent" got to do with Australia?

halas

Australias national airforce? Is this another body I havent heard of? Bloody Journos need to go back to school. Or they are very carefully sidesteping me thinks....


Regards
Sheep

To clarify the facts:

Members in question were wearing caps that were Australian gifts, with non-offensive flying related motif imprinted only.

Must have been Trash Hauler caps..in that case the crew were right!

Any Arabian person flying on an airline in this day and age, regardless of how they are dressed should be ready to be questioned and scrutinised.........paranoia by the airlines? yes ,perhaps, but Arab nationals only have themselves to blame .

What Mainframe says makes absolute sense.

It seems people are having a go at the crew for playing it safe!
I would venture to say people might have felt differently about it if they were passengers on the plane!

A lot of people are scared to say this so I will:
Yes, there is quite a bit of non-arab terrorism in the world. But the fact is:

The VAST majority of modern day terrorists are arabs.

(Note: I did not say all arabs, as most are decent people like you and me)

Steamchicken mentions terrorism such as:
Baltic Exchange...
Canary Wharf...
Warrington...
Omagh...
Sundry incidents in the Basque country..

but fails to mention the THOUSANDS of israelis (including arabs) killed every year, week after week by palestinians, not to mention, the thousands killed in Sept 11,(also including many arabs) or the hundreds of christians killed every year in Pakistan by arab terrorist attacks. (Also don't forget the various other airline terroist attacks by arabs)

What is so "disgraceful" of being suspicious of these men because of their ethnicity? If the situation was reversed and Australians were known as terrorists, I may be annoyed by it, but would understand people being suspicious of me, if I flew on a foreign airline.

Reminds me how the IRA sent their best female assassin to go and kill Osama Bin Laden except she got her anthrax mixed up with her tampax and killed the wrong ---t..... Doh! OOPS!

Big Kev Nothing is disgraceful about being suspicious of passengers, infact it is good security. What is disgraceful is the crew then refusing to fly...You have a concern you voice it, you are at the gate so you have the bonafides checked. Are... travelling in a group.... booked by the Government of Australia...OK, these guys are clean now get on with your job and thanks for the concern. If this sort of procedure or similar was followed and they still refused to fly then that is disgraceful. If QF don't have a procedure to follow in cases such as these then they are way behind in not just service.

Hey BigKev
 

You say the Palestinians commit terrorist acts on the Israelis?? Yeh they have a few kids with bombs strapped to their bodies on buses. Thats terrorism I agree, but so is a gunship firing missiles into a crowded marketplace and killing countless innocent civilians along with the one hamas leader they were after.

When the non-Western countries fight against oppression its terrorism, when the Western countries bomb Arab citys and invade their borders, its liberation.

As the guys earlier said, if the crew is jumpy due to the stereotypes imprinted on them due to the western media, then sure make all the usual checks, but once they are done, stop being drama queens and do your job of giving food poisoning to your passengers.

Sheep Guts
 

Re the "national air force" line, it was written by the frogs who probably have no idea what the RAAF is really known as.:rolleyes:

Halas

"What has the sub-continent have to do with Australia?"

The sub-continent contains around seven nations. The most problematic Pakistan.

Pakistan has been the logistical and spiritual home for some unsavoury fundamentalist groups. The war in Afganistan was won by tribesman pitted against the former Soviet war machine; no thanks political and religious backing in Pakistan. And a warm round of applause to the CIA and their provision of Stinger missiles.

The Taliban in Afganistan was pretty much bankrolled by the Pakistan military junta but the lasting efffect may be the religious guise it was done under.

Halas, ask around discretely, on the inspiration and funding of some mosques (and the US) , many lost their lives in Afganistan in Jihad! Even from temperate MidEast nations such as the UAE. You can not turn that fervour off especially in light of contradictory Foreign Policy from the West.

Pakistan is not a rich country and a fair guess as to what is not available to the public in the recent Congress report on Sept 11! Oil money from the spiritual home of Islam bankrolled the Taliban and similar within Pakistan.

How does all this affect Australia? I would suggest it already has with Bali.

Much MidEast money makes it's way to Pakistan and onto groups such as Indonesia's JI.

That is the threat and that is on the doorstep.

Bob Hawke shed a tear for Israel in the 80s. We have recently been involved in an un-popular bombing campaign and "liberation" of Iraq. Not even Bob's emotions could align us as close to US policy on Israel as the position we are in today!

The price of this alignment has been paid by thousands of US victims of terrorism. It surprises me that in threads such as this, the flippant dismissal of what we are now involved in.

It surprises me even more, a budget surplus, a government hinting at tax cuts and not an investment in security.

If all you flippant smart arse twenty- twenty hindsight arseholes had been highjacked as I have been , you might be a bit paranoid as well . It wasn’t your life on the line
in this incident , it was theirs , and they made the call . In aviation safety issues , the
most conservative judgement is supposed to prevail .

Damned if you do.. damned if you don't.

Had something suspicious have turned up about these men, the crew would have been labelled heroes.

The cabin crew on this occassion were astute without just cause. So Geoff wants them fired.

Safety First.... or is it?
SG
:)

Quotes:There doesn't seem to be one post on this thread from anyone who was there! How then can quotes such as those above be taken seriously? :rolleyes:

I find it almost incredulous to believe that an Australian Defence Force officer would allow his charges to travel in the alleged manner, given the hype of the past two years.

ANSA agree wholeheartedly. While both sides simply blame the other side there will be no resolution. It interesting how it seems the majority of the WASP/Anglo community simply side against the Arabs without looking at both sides.

ApocalypseThen if

does this mean the Captain should decline to depart into turbulence and challenging weather when the conservative F/O says, "I don't think we should go skipper"?

Agree. Somebody must know.

What was written on their shirts/caps etc?

I find it hard to believe they were booked under "House of Jihad". Even if in the sometimes liberal expression and translation of Jihad ie: Muslim struggle and recognition. Not Holy War.

Claret

The Murdoch press would never let it's view on Israel be influenced by outside lobby groups and associated business pressure. Surely we get a balanced view in Australia of MidEast issues?

Alert!!! Alert!!!
 

Gentlemen,.... and Ladies,

The thing about the T-shirts and the other inflammatory remarks need to be recognised in the context of the person making the post.

I think we can accept as fact that "Cactus Jack" is a person who delights in spreading fertiliser and seeing what pops up. I'm actually surprised that the statement would have been given any credibility at all given the situation. Hardly likely that guests of the RAAF would be dressing in that manner. Really...

Please, don't lose your minds just because others around you are losing theirs. It's an obvious windup. And if anyone can verify that Cactus actually does fly an aircraft, then I'll be surprised.
But only if they can be verified too.

Gotta agree with a lot of the sentiments of posters expressing moderation though. Remember that we are at WAR!!!! Remember? The "WAR on TERROR"? A contradiction in terms if ever there was... And remember that the first casualty of war is the truth.

You know, propaganda, lies, spies, and all that mind screwing stuff.


Life's a Bitch, then you Fly. :ugh:

(Unfortunately, even flying is losing it's appeal with all this madness about terrorists gripping the gullible masses)