Joy ride on Virgin Blue
I read on another forum that to expedite the departure from MEL the aircraft took off with no safety demo for the pax. Does anyone know if that is accurate. If it is then this would overtake any breaking of curfew in importance imho
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Wonderworld before you go asking what in my opinion is a ludicrous question, stop and have a think for a second. Do you REALLY think an airline on Oz would EVER do that sort of thing? The short answer is of course NO!
Try not to get sucked in by mindless ramblings of idiots who know little or nothing of what we do.
It has never happened and never will happen. I would like to say nice try to the author (of original thread) but if is far too stupid to even consider.
Try not to get sucked in by mindless ramblings of idiots who know little or nothing of what we do.
It has never happened and never will happen. I would like to say nice try to the author (of original thread) but if is far too stupid to even consider.
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The penalty/fine has, apparently , recently risen from ~ $100k to ~ $200k , definately cheaper to divert!!Better yet dont even go at all!!!! Even the paperwork to go to Canberra for the go-around would make your hair stand on end.You cant blame ATC for this aviation joke, it's the local MP'S (Meddling Polititians!) cheers maus
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Mr Hat,
They did "up the power levers" on this flight. Aircraft flew at high speed with all speed restrictions below 10000' CNL. They were also given direct tracking and 07 for arrival.
They did "up the power levers" on this flight. Aircraft flew at high speed with all speed restrictions below 10000' CNL. They were also given direct tracking and 07 for arrival.
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With regard to the ease of obtaining dispensations and all the associated bullsh!t and red tape that goes with it - nothing will happen until such time that it personally affects a politician, and then just maybe something will be done.....eventually. 
Sperm Bank reread my post before you go shooting the messenger. As I said "If it is true" 
How do you know it has never happened? Have you been on "every" flight to witness. It has happend to me on BA out of SIN on the upper deck of a 742. Fltatt just quickly asked has everyone been on the upperdeck of a 742 and when the few pax up there nodded and mumbled yes, down the stairs he vanished!!
How do you know it has never happened? Have you been on "every" flight to witness. It has happend to me on BA out of SIN on the upper deck of a 742. Fltatt just quickly asked has everyone been on the upperdeck of a 742 and when the few pax up there nodded and mumbled yes, down the stairs he vanished!!
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A typical example of how noise abatement procedures etc can cause a safety hazard.
Everyone knows the risks of rushed approaches and this kind of situation just encourages it.
Why not have a gradient on the fine. Make it increase every 5 minutes or something.
For f**ks sake, fines in the $100's of thousands for being less than a minute late!!
Wonder if the fine for plowing off the end of the runway is cheaper than that for being 15 seconds late.
P.S. This is in no way accusing the flight concerned of doing this, but it is a genuine worry.
Everyone knows the risks of rushed approaches and this kind of situation just encourages it.
Why not have a gradient on the fine. Make it increase every 5 minutes or something.
For f**ks sake, fines in the $100's of thousands for being less than a minute late!!
Wonder if the fine for plowing off the end of the runway is cheaper than that for being 15 seconds late.
P.S. This is in no way accusing the flight concerned of doing this, but it is a genuine worry.
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Wonderworld The answer to your question is NO THEY DID NOT TAKE OFF WITHOUT COMPLETING A SAFETY DEMO! I wasn't shooting the messenger mate. If you had ever worked in airlines in Oz you would probably know better than to ask the question you did. That sort of thing just does not happen.
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I think the problem lies in the decision to depart in the first place. The argument about only 45 secs or a minute or 2 just doesn't cut it.The Captain knows the rules and the cut off time. Having been in the situation a number of times the only way to do it is to work out an absolute last push back time to be able to make it.
Then let everyone know that after this time you cannot depart. Its amazing how quickly they can turn an a/c around when they know the latest time the a/c can leave.
After this time you don't go as in all likelyhood you won't make it. You also look far more professional to the passengers and the company knowing what can or can't be achieved rather than flying flat out trying the achieve the impossiable.
Then let everyone know that after this time you cannot depart. Its amazing how quickly they can turn an a/c around when they know the latest time the a/c can leave.
After this time you don't go as in all likelyhood you won't make it. You also look far more professional to the passengers and the company knowing what can or can't be achieved rather than flying flat out trying the achieve the impossiable.
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Wouldnt it be efficient or smart to give the senior controller the authority to grant dispensations? People at the coal face have to start taking charge again.
I guess I will have to wait another few years for common sense returns to Australia , then I will will return flying .
I guess I will have to wait another few years for common sense returns to Australia , then I will will return flying .
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Sorry for my ignorance but could someone please define "arrival time" for me. Is this the time an aircraft first touches down or is it the time they stop the aircraft after landing or is it the time they arrive at the terminal. Thanks.
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Sheepdog it is unfortunately not that simple. That would be like saying to let the Senior Controler cancel parking tickets, cut funding to the ABC, send troops to war and appoint a Govenor general. The Noise Abatement isues at Sydney have absolutely nothing to do with Air traffic Control. If you do get back into flying one day get the Sydney ATIS if you can on a weekend and look at the amount of times we are on runway 25 with some 20 knot of croswind. It is not for fun, it is because for noise sharing we must.
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missleadfoot,
arrival time is the time the aircraft stops on blocks at the terminal/parking bay.
I am confused about many of the comments on this thread. They seem to assume that the Captain on the day had insufficient common sense to operate his/her aircraft.
I find it difficult to believe anyone with a jet command would depart knowing that they would not make a curfew and have to return. Surely the Crew and their Ops people would have assessed that there was some chance of arriving and landing before curfew.
I am confused about many of the comments on this thread. They seem to assume that the Captain on the day had insufficient common sense to operate his/her aircraft.
I find it difficult to believe anyone with a jet command would depart knowing that they would not make a curfew and have to return. Surely the Crew and their Ops people would have assessed that there was some chance of arriving and landing before curfew.
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Arrival time for airlines and schedule purposes might be on blocks at the terminal. For the purposes of this thread, ie curfew, it's time of touchdown.
There's some more info here on another BBS
http://www.vpmag.com/yssy/viewtopic.php?t=3265
and
http://www.vpmag.com/yssy/viewtopic.php?t=3346
AA
There's some more info here on another BBS
http://www.vpmag.com/yssy/viewtopic.php?t=3265
and
http://www.vpmag.com/yssy/viewtopic.php?t=3346
AA
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On the question of what fine would be imposed, it was actually increased from $110k to $550k around 18 months or so ago, when a Thai Airways 747 knowingly broke the curfew after weighing up the financial considerations of abiding by it. To the best of my knowledge, this figure applies to all RPT aircraft, no matter what type.
Sheepdog, part of me tends to agree with your idea, however can you imagine the number of calls and excuses that poor old SATCO would hear for why each particular aircraft wanted to break the curfew?
tobzalp is right. This all comes down to the pollies. I was sitting at work the other day and had one of those out-of-the-blue epiphanies (okay so it may not seem that big to you, but I'm an air trafficer - I've got a brain the size of a peanut!). I remarked to the person next to me what a truly remarkable service we could give if it wasn't for LTOP and Noise Abatement Procedures! You may even get to land into wind! These LTOP crosswind and downwind landings will end up killing people, but until then I regret that nothing will change.
Sheepdog, part of me tends to agree with your idea, however can you imagine the number of calls and excuses that poor old SATCO would hear for why each particular aircraft wanted to break the curfew?
tobzalp is right. This all comes down to the pollies. I was sitting at work the other day and had one of those out-of-the-blue epiphanies (okay so it may not seem that big to you, but I'm an air trafficer - I've got a brain the size of a peanut!). I remarked to the person next to me what a truly remarkable service we could give if it wasn't for LTOP and Noise Abatement Procedures! You may even get to land into wind! These LTOP crosswind and downwind landings will end up killing people, but until then I regret that nothing will change.
