derogatory comments
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Hey, Kwaj maaaate, if you’re thinking of a bit of overseas travel to ‘broaden the mind’, I know a bloke over this way who’s desperately in need of a first class spin doctor. His name is Tony Blair.
Don’t worry about sending a c.v. Just send him a copy of your last post (or should that read ‘Last Post’?) and he’ll offer you the job on the spot.
But I’d put a little work into my spell checker, oorite?
Myself, I think the majority of people who say we should put the events of 1989 behind us and forget them wish everyone would forget them.
Don’t worry about sending a c.v. Just send him a copy of your last post (or should that read ‘Last Post’?) and he’ll offer you the job on the spot.
But I’d put a little work into my spell checker, oorite?
Myself, I think the majority of people who say we should put the events of 1989 behind us and forget them wish everyone would forget them.
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meeko,
99.9% of living humans today don't give a rats arse about the 89 affair. Pathetic individuals like Kapt_M and others, who obviously sit in front of their screens for hours on end writing thousands of posts filled with anger, anxiety and depression need to see a psychiatrist.....and urgently!
Anyhow, I think most of these ******s are gonna be dead pretty soon....one can imagine whats going on inside them health wise....and I don't think its pleasant. They will all be plagued by stress induced cancers before too long..........cant wait !
pb
ps....i'm what they call a scab.....and loving it
99.9% of living humans today don't give a rats arse about the 89 affair. Pathetic individuals like Kapt_M and others, who obviously sit in front of their screens for hours on end writing thousands of posts filled with anger, anxiety and depression need to see a psychiatrist.....and urgently!
Anyhow, I think most of these ******s are gonna be dead pretty soon....one can imagine whats going on inside them health wise....and I don't think its pleasant. They will all be plagued by stress induced cancers before too long..........cant wait !
pb
ps....i'm what they call a scab.....and loving it
Well for those that take their working conditions for granted or have no clue as to how they came about, had better start taking an interest, particularly if you happen to work for the rat.
Dicky has just employed the services of Theo and his team, for those that dont remember him he is merciless and leaves an awesome trail of distruction in his path and he gets you do it to yourselves.
His mission is simply more work for less. He'll have you working for nothing in no time, and the s***s will be no match for him. Then we'll see just how professional you are. goodluck
Dicky has just employed the services of Theo and his team, for those that dont remember him he is merciless and leaves an awesome trail of distruction in his path and he gets you do it to yourselves.
His mission is simply more work for less. He'll have you working for nothing in no time, and the s***s will be no match for him. Then we'll see just how professional you are.
goodluck
I suppose I should qualify that post. The gauntlet has already been thrown down, you only need to read dickies statement to all staff, when he writes "we" he is really saying "you" now how will it be done.
Firstly the great Theo and his team work on the principle of divide and conquer, in every company there are two camps and in each camp there is a left and right wing. Theo and his team will quickly identify these groups and set up working committees within them and the all important, isolate them from the other groups.
Unfortunately what you wont know is that he will be presenting very different things to each group, the only thing that will be common between all 4 groups is that "this is all good stuff and we are going in the right direction" you wont see the deception until the very end when the war breaks out between the 4 groups. Thats when the company steps in to save the day by presenting a proposal thats acceptable to all 4 groups which will be nothing like what any of the groups have been working towards.
This process will take 18 to 24 months, so in the year 2005 when your all working 14 hrs a day and away from home 28 in 30 days on half the pay, you will all be left scratching your arses and asking the question "how did this happen" it will be exciting to see it unfold, who you can trust and who you cant, who is professional and who isnt. "That is how 89 happened" The statements I have read on this thread tell me you are ripe for the picking, the outcome is already determined.
Firstly the great Theo and his team work on the principle of divide and conquer, in every company there are two camps and in each camp there is a left and right wing. Theo and his team will quickly identify these groups and set up working committees within them and the all important, isolate them from the other groups.
Unfortunately what you wont know is that he will be presenting very different things to each group, the only thing that will be common between all 4 groups is that "this is all good stuff and we are going in the right direction" you wont see the deception until the very end when the war breaks out between the 4 groups. Thats when the company steps in to save the day by presenting a proposal thats acceptable to all 4 groups which will be nothing like what any of the groups have been working towards.
This process will take 18 to 24 months, so in the year 2005 when your all working 14 hrs a day and away from home 28 in 30 days on half the pay, you will all be left scratching your arses and asking the question "how did this happen" it will be exciting to see it unfold, who you can trust and who you cant, who is professional and who isnt. "That is how 89 happened" The statements I have read on this thread tell me you are ripe for the picking, the outcome is already determined.
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Xeptu
you wrote
' "Lest we Forget" Just as we remember our fallen in war so we remember our fallen from 89.'
Quite an ironic statement.
Did you ever look at the increase in road statistics during that time. People who died on the roads as a result of your dispute.
You are right, some people will never forget.
you wrote
' "Lest we Forget" Just as we remember our fallen in war so we remember our fallen from 89.'
Quite an ironic statement.
Did you ever look at the increase in road statistics during that time. People who died on the roads as a result of your dispute.
You are right, some people will never forget.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Yeah right. sooty.
And think how the road toll has been affected by Ansett shutting down too!
Lucky Virgin Blue was there to come to the rescue!
But look on the bright side - think how many birds, grasshoppers, moths, and other bugs have been spared!!
And think how the road toll has been affected by Ansett shutting down too!
Lucky Virgin Blue was there to come to the rescue!
But look on the bright side - think how many birds, grasshoppers, moths, and other bugs have been spared!!
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Xeptu I think it will be interesting to sit back in 5 years and see how it all pans out. The tight fisted war lords will undoubtably have a fair dinkum go at pilot's across the board. However you can't expect young pilots to have any comprehension of that just yet. Young people can't be told anything and I was no different. They like the rest of us have to learn from experience. Australia's first major hull loss will focus the microscope on wages and conditions and the type and quality of pilot we have. As the money keeps getting worse, so too will the calibre of pilot's in this country I believe.
I look forward to witnessing these beancounter clowns being cross examined in the courts with how they justified the deplorable conditions. The blood will be on their hands and theirs alone!
I look forward to witnessing these beancounter clowns being cross examined in the courts with how they justified the deplorable conditions. The blood will be on their hands and theirs alone!
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Kaptin M
Again ........ 'So Kap, why DID you apply for your job back?'
You still haven't answered that???
But with regard to your last comment
I think it has become safer.
Cheaper airfairs, less people on the roads.
We're catching up with the rest of the world.
Before I would have driven the 1000 k's, but now I can fly!!!
And you are right. we have saved the wildlife on the roads.
Again ........ 'So Kap, why DID you apply for your job back?'
You still haven't answered that???
But with regard to your last comment
I think it has become safer.
Cheaper airfairs, less people on the roads.
We're catching up with the rest of the world.
Before I would have driven the 1000 k's, but now I can fly!!!
And you are right. we have saved the wildlife on the roads.
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Yes I do work for Virgin Kaptain. My thoughts are well known to quite a few colleaguesd. Therea re a number who think the same way and we wouldn't bother telling the chief pilot. Why put your head in the lios gob if not necessary. But what could hed o anyway
There will be more outing themselves now that the airline is emplying those horrible people. I bet there are no resignations from the guys who said they would never work with scabs. Very principled.
Get over it. It's 14 years ago this month. Or is it next month.
There will be more outing themselves now that the airline is emplying those horrible people. I bet there are no resignations from the guys who said they would never work with scabs. Very principled.
Get over it. It's 14 years ago this month. Or is it next month.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
VB_Capt, I was going to have a dig at you by saying something along the lines of, "Your dismal spelling is overshadowed only by your superficial lack of comprehension!" - however I'll refrain from that, being the nice guy that I am
RTFQ.
What I wrote was, "I doubt that you do work in the capacity that your PPRuNe handle intimates!".
"I bet there are no resignations from the guys who said they would never work with scabs."
To the best of my recollection, no-one in my hearing EVER made that statement.
It was the scabs - under the Ansett Pilots' Association leadership of one, Dick Marman - who publically stated that the scabs could NEVER work with the non-scabs, based on SAFETY.
As a matter of fact, several 1989 dispute pilots (myself included) flew with some Continental scabs during our tenure with Singapore Airlines.
If indeed you do insist that you are a Captain with VB, VB_Capt, - an ex-89'er who did not scab, but feels that he was misled by the AFAP - why are you back for a second dose, working for a company that was formed on the basis of suggestions floated to Mr Godfrey by a couple of ex-89'ers, whose Chief Pilot is well known to anyone with a remote knowledge of the Federation leadership at the time, and with a backbone of 1989 ex-Dispute pilots?
VOLUNTARILY working back in an environment with people you believe are responsible for your miserable life.
Are you a masochist or sadist, VB_Captain? "Whip me....please whip me Noooo - later..........perhaps
And to then further flaunt it here on PPRuNe - you OBVIOUSLY enjoy it!
But it COULD be worse - you COULD have scabbed, and now 14 years after the "event" NOW be looking at having to relocate overseas to find work, instead of being fortunate enough to be back living, and FLYING in Australia!
(Or wondering WHO was responsible for a "scab" call...was it another airline, commuter, or G.A. pilot...or an ATCO....or someone with a transceiver?).
The playing field has been lowered, raised, and re-levelled over the past 14 years - the ball has been kicked around - the goal posts changed. Many of the players swapped team shirts to play away games before returning home, whilst others have been sent off for foul play.
It may well have been 14 years ago (this month), OICUR and VB_Cpt, however nothing, and no-one stood still and remained static during that period!
Many of those (non-scab 1989) pilots whom you have been telling, "GET A LIFE MATE." have succeeded in doing precisely that.
It is you lot that now need to "GET A LIFE MATE."!!
RTFQ.
What I wrote was, "I doubt that you do work in the capacity that your PPRuNe handle intimates!".
"I bet there are no resignations from the guys who said they would never work with scabs."
To the best of my recollection, no-one in my hearing EVER made that statement.
It was the scabs - under the Ansett Pilots' Association leadership of one, Dick Marman - who publically stated that the scabs could NEVER work with the non-scabs, based on SAFETY.
As a matter of fact, several 1989 dispute pilots (myself included) flew with some Continental scabs during our tenure with Singapore Airlines.
If indeed you do insist that you are a Captain with VB, VB_Capt, - an ex-89'er who did not scab, but feels that he was misled by the AFAP - why are you back for a second dose, working for a company that was formed on the basis of suggestions floated to Mr Godfrey by a couple of ex-89'ers, whose Chief Pilot is well known to anyone with a remote knowledge of the Federation leadership at the time, and with a backbone of 1989 ex-Dispute pilots?
VOLUNTARILY working back in an environment with people you believe are responsible for your miserable life.
Are you a masochist or sadist, VB_Captain? "Whip me....please whip me Noooo - later..........perhaps
And to then further flaunt it here on PPRuNe - you OBVIOUSLY enjoy it!
But it COULD be worse - you COULD have scabbed, and now 14 years after the "event" NOW be looking at having to relocate overseas to find work, instead of being fortunate enough to be back living, and FLYING in Australia!
(Or wondering WHO was responsible for a "scab" call...was it another airline, commuter, or G.A. pilot...or an ATCO....or someone with a transceiver?).
The playing field has been lowered, raised, and re-levelled over the past 14 years - the ball has been kicked around - the goal posts changed. Many of the players swapped team shirts to play away games before returning home, whilst others have been sent off for foul play.
It may well have been 14 years ago (this month), OICUR and VB_Cpt, however nothing, and no-one stood still and remained static during that period!
Many of those (non-scab 1989) pilots whom you have been telling, "GET A LIFE MATE." have succeeded in doing precisely that.
It is you lot that now need to "GET A LIFE MATE."!!
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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With due respect to all whom have posted on this thread.
Gentlemen; Do you not think that it is time that we all started to hang together, for if we do not then we shall surely hang seperately!
Just a thought......
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Gentlemen; Do you not think that it is time that we all started to hang together, for if we do not then we shall surely hang seperately!
Just a thought......
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
'Lucky Virgin Blue was there to come to the rescue!' Just remember KAPT M, VB was about to go broke and out of business THE VERY WEEK that Ansett collapsed. It was simply a case of who went first..... had Ansett held out one more week it would have been VB that disappeared, never to be heard from again.
Your memory is interesting....you remember something from 14 years ago that NOBODY gives a rat's ass about today, yet you seem to forget that just 2 years ago it was VB that was lucky, not the Australian public - or the Australian airline worker for that matter. VB pilots and FAs get shafted, while it appears that its good old Dicky B lining his pockets AT THEIR EXPENSE!!!
Your memory is interesting....you remember something from 14 years ago that NOBODY gives a rat's ass about today, yet you seem to forget that just 2 years ago it was VB that was lucky, not the Australian public - or the Australian airline worker for that matter. VB pilots and FAs get shafted, while it appears that its good old Dicky B lining his pockets AT THEIR EXPENSE!!!
Last edited by mmmbop; 14th Aug 2003 at 10:00.
Yes! SB I agree with you somehow the fools think it was all just an insignificant incident that happened years ago. Not realising for a minute that the world has change so significantly as a result of that insignificant event. The thrust of what I was trying to emphasis is not so much the event, but the lessons to learn from that event.
CAO 48 remember "the law", so few work to it today, such that it will be removed from the regs this year and be left up to the operator to determine what fatigue is. It wont even be a defence.
The industrial battle that looms before QF will no doubt trigger an event that will truly make 89 "insignificant"
Perhaps they should just offer a 30% pay cut and save themselves the grief.
CAO 48 remember "the law", so few work to it today, such that it will be removed from the regs this year and be left up to the operator to determine what fatigue is. It wont even be a defence.
The industrial battle that looms before QF will no doubt trigger an event that will truly make 89 "insignificant"
Perhaps they should just offer a 30% pay cut and save themselves the grief.
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Gentlemen; Do you not think that it is time that we all started to hang together, for if we do not then we shall surely hang seperately!
The main reason so many who were involved in the events of 1989 and who did “hang together” (in both senses of the phrase!) would prefer not to work alongside these people has something to do with leopards and spots. If that’s too cryptic for you – for whatever reason, be it a weak spine or base self interest, those people have proven quite clearly they can’t be trusted to stick to an agreed plan of action. Most believe that if push ever came to shove again, they would do something similar again.
mmmbop tell Kaptain M
…you remember something from 14 years ago that NOBODY gives a rat's ass about today,
The AFAP was not without its faults, and anyone who asserts the union didn’t need to change some of its practices has a very selective memory. The contract was an overcomplicated disaster – and that was widely felt by many in the pilot group well before 1989. In particular, the union should have accepted that the companies should have been allowed to dismiss the small number of pilots who were not maintaining standards. With hindsight, it would have been in the union’s best interests had it done so, because in too many cases, it was this group, knowing they’d never get a job on what be called a level playing field overseas, who were among the first to scab.
Xeptu, I agree with you – 1989 was many things, but for Australian Aviation and more particularly, Australian aviators, it was anything but “insignificant”. Look at the sweat shop conditions too many ‘enjoy’ today, especially in G.A., that would never have been allowed to continue or become so widespread with a strong aviation-based union in place.
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Hey VB_Capt…..We’ve got a lot in common.
I’m a scab and, like you I’m disgusted with myself for something I did 14 years ago too. I too made the biggest mistake of my life, but it was for the opposite reason.
I’ve had countless sleepless nights since then thinking about my miserable act of treachery. The scores of friends who will no longer talk to me or my family are lost forever.
I thought I was one of the smartest guys around at the time – I got my job back, a huge payrise, and a 737 command within months of going back! Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined I could be presented with such an opportunity.
But the gloss soon wore off as the reality set in. Long term friends did not respond to my entreaties to “let bygones be bygones” and I just could not shake the recurring guilt about all the former friends whose careers I had contributed to trashing.
However, as terrible as I feel about my treacherous act in ’89, the one thing I can feel good about is knowing that I helped save Ansett.
(I DO believe you’re not a scab VB_Capt!)
I’m a scab and, like you I’m disgusted with myself for something I did 14 years ago too. I too made the biggest mistake of my life, but it was for the opposite reason.
I’ve had countless sleepless nights since then thinking about my miserable act of treachery. The scores of friends who will no longer talk to me or my family are lost forever.
I thought I was one of the smartest guys around at the time – I got my job back, a huge payrise, and a 737 command within months of going back! Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined I could be presented with such an opportunity.
But the gloss soon wore off as the reality set in. Long term friends did not respond to my entreaties to “let bygones be bygones” and I just could not shake the recurring guilt about all the former friends whose careers I had contributed to trashing.
However, as terrible as I feel about my treacherous act in ’89, the one thing I can feel good about is knowing that I helped save Ansett.
(I DO believe you’re not a scab VB_Capt!)
Spad,
The problem with this mode of communication is that the intended tone of a message can be lost when reading. I agree, I agree, I agree! My 'don't give a rat's' comment should be read as one of frustration, not literally.
Hopefully most of us have enough of an interest to have dissected what occured in 89 and learnt from it. Hopefully. But people getting on here and bleating about 'scabs' and the like would tend to indicate otherwise. 'Fools' in my book are those people who are incapable of moving on. All of the agression they have on this subject is focussed in the wrong direction - Attacking people on a forum such as this does nothing but justify their perceived wrongdoings in their mind. What a pity they couldn't use all the energy to a positive cause.
The problem with this mode of communication is that the intended tone of a message can be lost when reading. I agree, I agree, I agree! My 'don't give a rat's' comment should be read as one of frustration, not literally.
Hopefully most of us have enough of an interest to have dissected what occured in 89 and learnt from it. Hopefully. But people getting on here and bleating about 'scabs' and the like would tend to indicate otherwise. 'Fools' in my book are those people who are incapable of moving on. All of the agression they have on this subject is focussed in the wrong direction - Attacking people on a forum such as this does nothing but justify their perceived wrongdoings in their mind. What a pity they couldn't use all the energy to a positive cause.