Defence plan to scrap F-111s
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Defence plan to scrap F-111s
Tues "The Australian"
Defence plan to scrap F-111s
By Patrick Walters, National security editor
August 05, 2003
THE RAAF's 35 F-111 warplanes – Australia's front-line strategic strike force – could be retired from service from 2006, a decade earlier than originally planned, if the Government accepts a controversial option put forward by the Defence Department.
A key issue is whether early retirement for the long-range F-111s could leave a gaping hole in Australia's front-line defences early next decade.
The Government has accepted strategic advice that Australia faces no conventional military threat for the next 15 years and has placed greater emphasis on the defence force working in coalition operations further from Australia's shores.
The problem for defence planners is that the RAAF's 71 F/A-18 strike fighters are also rapidly ageing and due to be phased out from 2012 as the air force bets on the timely arrival of the state-of-the-art US-designed Joint Strike Fighter.
A growing lobby in defence circles argues that the RAAF will have to consider an interim fighter solution to replace the F/A-18s if the Joint Strike Fighter fails to arrive by 2012 as planned.
Critics of the F-111 argue that the aircraft is now too expensive to maintain and, lacking stealth technology, is highly vulnerable to modern air defence systems.
Air Force chief Angus Houston said recently the bomber fleet could be kept in service at least until 2010. "The reality is that if we are going to take this through to 2020, as indicated in the white paper, it will be very expensive," he told a Senate estimates committee hearing.
"The F-111 was an extremely serviceable aircraft when it was young. The older it gets, the more maintenance we will have to put into it to maintain the capability."
A cost blowout in defence is driving the politically contentious plan to retire the F-111s early. At current estimates, Defence does not have the money to fund the 10-year, $50 billion defence capability plan.
The Defence Capability Review now being considered by the Government argues the case for retiring the 30-year-old F-111 fleet from 2006, compared with the phase-out schedule of 2015-2020 envisaged by the 2000 Defence White Paper.
The option to bring forward the retirement of the F-111s has already sparked sharp debate in defence circles, given that more than $1.2 billion has been spent upgrading the planes and their weaponry over the past 10 years to extend their in-service life.
The Defence White Paper, arguing for the long-term retention of the F-111, said it was unlikely any comparable strike aircraft suited to Australia's needs would be available about 2015.
Defence planners say that by then, other alternative long-range strike platforms could be available, including unmanned aerial vehicles.
The Joint Strike Fighter, still in the development phase, will not have the range and payload of the F-111.
With this in mind, the Government approved further massive expenditures, including upgrades of the F-111's stand-off weapons. Further electronic warfare upgrades were approved for 2004-2008.
The F-111 bomber fleet costs about $500 million annually to keep in service. Maintenance costs have soared in recent years as structural problems with wings and fuel tank seals have emerged.
==========================================
Defence plan to scrap F-111s
By Patrick Walters, National security editor
August 05, 2003
THE RAAF's 35 F-111 warplanes – Australia's front-line strategic strike force – could be retired from service from 2006, a decade earlier than originally planned, if the Government accepts a controversial option put forward by the Defence Department.
A key issue is whether early retirement for the long-range F-111s could leave a gaping hole in Australia's front-line defences early next decade.
The Government has accepted strategic advice that Australia faces no conventional military threat for the next 15 years and has placed greater emphasis on the defence force working in coalition operations further from Australia's shores.
The problem for defence planners is that the RAAF's 71 F/A-18 strike fighters are also rapidly ageing and due to be phased out from 2012 as the air force bets on the timely arrival of the state-of-the-art US-designed Joint Strike Fighter.
A growing lobby in defence circles argues that the RAAF will have to consider an interim fighter solution to replace the F/A-18s if the Joint Strike Fighter fails to arrive by 2012 as planned.
Critics of the F-111 argue that the aircraft is now too expensive to maintain and, lacking stealth technology, is highly vulnerable to modern air defence systems.
Air Force chief Angus Houston said recently the bomber fleet could be kept in service at least until 2010. "The reality is that if we are going to take this through to 2020, as indicated in the white paper, it will be very expensive," he told a Senate estimates committee hearing.
"The F-111 was an extremely serviceable aircraft when it was young. The older it gets, the more maintenance we will have to put into it to maintain the capability."
A cost blowout in defence is driving the politically contentious plan to retire the F-111s early. At current estimates, Defence does not have the money to fund the 10-year, $50 billion defence capability plan.
The Defence Capability Review now being considered by the Government argues the case for retiring the 30-year-old F-111 fleet from 2006, compared with the phase-out schedule of 2015-2020 envisaged by the 2000 Defence White Paper.
The option to bring forward the retirement of the F-111s has already sparked sharp debate in defence circles, given that more than $1.2 billion has been spent upgrading the planes and their weaponry over the past 10 years to extend their in-service life.
The Defence White Paper, arguing for the long-term retention of the F-111, said it was unlikely any comparable strike aircraft suited to Australia's needs would be available about 2015.
Defence planners say that by then, other alternative long-range strike platforms could be available, including unmanned aerial vehicles.
The Joint Strike Fighter, still in the development phase, will not have the range and payload of the F-111.
With this in mind, the Government approved further massive expenditures, including upgrades of the F-111's stand-off weapons. Further electronic warfare upgrades were approved for 2004-2008.
The F-111 bomber fleet costs about $500 million annually to keep in service. Maintenance costs have soared in recent years as structural problems with wings and fuel tank seals have emerged.
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Or a cynic might say that the Yanks have promised to RUSH to our aide, should it be requested IF.............full and unfettered access to all and any Australian domestic trade markets whilst our exorts are exised out of the ballpark on their domestic field. Our politicians are just about dumb enough to fall for that one. God save us because the yanks won't.
Evertonian
The Government has accepted strategic advice that Australia faces no conventional military threat for the next 15 years
Time to order those F15E's I think!
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Methinks we have not native born, Asian/ME radicals giving the Government advice on Australia's (non) defence needs.
In less than fifty years from now, Australia will have changed from that freedom loving culture we developed and enjoyed from 26th January 1788, to an unrecognisable South Pacific appendage of whichever power holds sway north of 0 degrees latitude.
I fear for my grandchildren.
In less than fifty years from now, Australia will have changed from that freedom loving culture we developed and enjoyed from 26th January 1788, to an unrecognisable South Pacific appendage of whichever power holds sway north of 0 degrees latitude.
I fear for my grandchildren.
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The F-111 was, and in many ways still is a great aircraft. The unfortunate and inescapable fact is that we simply cannot afford to keep it flying.
The alternative is to sacrifice other roles or procurement programs to keep the F-111 flying.
I believe that Australia does not face a “conventional” threat - ie the landing of a large enemy expeditionary force on our shores – but that the threat has changed to that of small scale guerrilla/special forces/terrorist operations. The ADF with its oh so finite resources must be capable of changing with the times.
The F-111 was primarily designed to counter a “Cold War” threat, which really does not exist today. Nevertheless an aircraft capable of flying a significant bomb load at high speed and low level is still a good “big stick” to have J.I.C.
I believe the Strike Eagle and Super Hornet are being examined as replacements (anyone out there with more accurate intel?), and IMHO this should be done ASAP before the F-111 becomes a millstone around the neck of Defence (that's not meant as an insult to the Pig world).
The alternative is to sacrifice other roles or procurement programs to keep the F-111 flying.
I believe that Australia does not face a “conventional” threat - ie the landing of a large enemy expeditionary force on our shores – but that the threat has changed to that of small scale guerrilla/special forces/terrorist operations. The ADF with its oh so finite resources must be capable of changing with the times.
The F-111 was primarily designed to counter a “Cold War” threat, which really does not exist today. Nevertheless an aircraft capable of flying a significant bomb load at high speed and low level is still a good “big stick” to have J.I.C.
I believe the Strike Eagle and Super Hornet are being examined as replacements (anyone out there with more accurate intel?), and IMHO this should be done ASAP before the F-111 becomes a millstone around the neck of Defence (that's not meant as an insult to the Pig world).
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Interesting...
Hmmm... Could pose a few headaches for the men with the money in Canberra. 
There's a big shopping list out their, with the Super Hornet (IMHO) at the top, The F-15E (or D for that matter) and there is even the possibility for such craft as the F-16, Tornado, Mirage, Tomcat...
Super Hornet - the obvious choice in my opinion.
• Two seat F variants to employ the excess navigators from the retired Pigs.
• Easy conversion for existing Hornet pilots.
• Amazing aircraft with the most advanced technology to date.
• Large payload (11 weapon stations - 8,000 kg) & excellent range in excess of 800 nautical miles un-refueled. (40% greater than current RAAF Hornets)
• Multi-Role Capability.
F-15E - Probably second choice, again, in my opinion.
• Two seats to employ the excess navigators from the retired Pigs.
• World superior Air-to-Air fighter capable of in excess of Mach 2 and 50,000ft.
• Air-to-ground capable, as proved in recent conflicts.
• Big payload and large range.
• Multi-Role capability.
Looking back, the one key difference between the two aircraft is the familiarisation factor of the Super Hornet. Obviously, ex-Pig drivers would have to complete the conversion course (6-12 months), but with their fast-jet knowledge of the F-111, this would make the conversion somewhat easier.
The majority of differences between the current RAAF Hornets and the Super Hornet lie in the larger physical structure and exterior of the craft - the cockpit is almost identical (except for the colour GPS I think).
Obviously they will need to define the length of time that the aircraft will be required. Is it an interim proposal, or a more permanent fixture? Again, an interim proposal would call for a 'cheap fix', where as a more permanent fixture will probably mean a huge spend-up by the DoD.
Whatever the outcome, it will be sad to see the Pig go - still the only aircraft in the western world capable of legally emitting a 60 foot Roman Candle from its rear to please a crowd!
The F-111 was the premier theatre strike aircraft of the Cold War era. With 2.5 times or better the payload radius of typical multirole tactial fighters, the F-111 remains today in a class of its own. With Mach 2.6 class high altitude supersonic dash performance, and Mach 1.2 dash capability at low level, the F-111 is arguably the fastest combat aircraft remaining in operation in any Western air force.
On the topic of displays - what will supply the best Airshow display? The Eagle at Avalon was awesome, as was the F-16, but could you possibly 'out-display' a Super Hornet with Ricardo Traven (Canadian Air Force & Boeing Test Pilot) at the controls?
Check out the latest edition of 'Defence Today' or F-111.net for an insight into the history of the F-111 with the RAAF.
Think its time those Defence 'experts' put their heads together! Should be an interesting outcome, whatever the final choice is.
Cheers,
Souls.
There's a big shopping list out their, with the Super Hornet (IMHO) at the top, The F-15E (or D for that matter) and there is even the possibility for such craft as the F-16, Tornado, Mirage, Tomcat...
Super Hornet - the obvious choice in my opinion.
• Two seat F variants to employ the excess navigators from the retired Pigs.
• Easy conversion for existing Hornet pilots.
• Amazing aircraft with the most advanced technology to date.
• Large payload (11 weapon stations - 8,000 kg) & excellent range in excess of 800 nautical miles un-refueled. (40% greater than current RAAF Hornets)
• Multi-Role Capability.
F-15E - Probably second choice, again, in my opinion.
• Two seats to employ the excess navigators from the retired Pigs.
• World superior Air-to-Air fighter capable of in excess of Mach 2 and 50,000ft.
• Air-to-ground capable, as proved in recent conflicts.
• Big payload and large range.
• Multi-Role capability.
Looking back, the one key difference between the two aircraft is the familiarisation factor of the Super Hornet. Obviously, ex-Pig drivers would have to complete the conversion course (6-12 months), but with their fast-jet knowledge of the F-111, this would make the conversion somewhat easier.
The majority of differences between the current RAAF Hornets and the Super Hornet lie in the larger physical structure and exterior of the craft - the cockpit is almost identical (except for the colour GPS I think).
Obviously they will need to define the length of time that the aircraft will be required. Is it an interim proposal, or a more permanent fixture? Again, an interim proposal would call for a 'cheap fix', where as a more permanent fixture will probably mean a huge spend-up by the DoD.
Whatever the outcome, it will be sad to see the Pig go - still the only aircraft in the western world capable of legally emitting a 60 foot Roman Candle from its rear to please a crowd!
The F-111 was the premier theatre strike aircraft of the Cold War era. With 2.5 times or better the payload radius of typical multirole tactial fighters, the F-111 remains today in a class of its own. With Mach 2.6 class high altitude supersonic dash performance, and Mach 1.2 dash capability at low level, the F-111 is arguably the fastest combat aircraft remaining in operation in any Western air force.
On the topic of displays - what will supply the best Airshow display? The Eagle at Avalon was awesome, as was the F-16, but could you possibly 'out-display' a Super Hornet with Ricardo Traven (Canadian Air Force & Boeing Test Pilot) at the controls?
Check out the latest edition of 'Defence Today' or F-111.net for an insight into the history of the F-111 with the RAAF.
Think its time those Defence 'experts' put their heads together! Should be an interesting outcome, whatever the final choice is.
Cheers,
Souls.
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I'm with you soulman. It'll be a sad day, particularly for the airshow organisers, when the pig is laid to rest. Still, you can't say an earlier than planned retirement isn't exactly surprising.
.......sniff..........
.......sniff..........
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Just A Thought
Or more of a question to those more qualified 
As we would only be looking at an interim solution would there be any reason we wouldn't look at the option of F-15E as the mud mover (arguably the best replacement for the PIG), with the F-15C as air-air role?
I don't think the C model is still on the assy line but would there be any excess late mod 15C's in the states?
Both proven aircraft.
I am thinking the benefits being parts commonality to some degree along with training for pilots?
Just a thought.....would be interested in hearing comments from those with better knowledge in this area.
P.O.M
As we would only be looking at an interim solution would there be any reason we wouldn't look at the option of F-15E as the mud mover (arguably the best replacement for the PIG), with the F-15C as air-air role?
I don't think the C model is still on the assy line but would there be any excess late mod 15C's in the states?
Both proven aircraft.
I am thinking the benefits being parts commonality to some degree along with training for pilots?
Just a thought.....would be interested in hearing comments from those with better knowledge in this area.
P.O.M
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Soulman,
Excuse me while I puke! The average pig driver wouldn't know how to look past his 10/2, let alone over his shoulder! Perhaps they know how to go fast, in a straight line, but that's all. They do no air-to-air at all (yeh, oorright, they've got a couple of 'winders!!!), drop a few big bombs, and then come home with their fingers in their ears hoping nobody can run them down. The standard hornet driver would %iss all over them in a conversion to Strike Eagles!
Pig drivers would have to complete the conversion course (6-12 months), but with their fast-jet knowledge of the F-111, this would make the conversion somewhat easier.
P.O.M,
the F15E is better than the F15C in the A/A role.
It was politically restrained in the A/A role in the US to avoid it taking away some of the momentum for the F22.
The F15E and C were never available at the same time, the E replaced the C on the production line.
the F15E is better than the F15C in the A/A role.
It was politically restrained in the A/A role in the US to avoid it taking away some of the momentum for the F22.
The F15E and C were never available at the same time, the E replaced the C on the production line.
Last edited by ftrplt; 5th Aug 2003 at 23:05.
Captain C, let me guess you are a junior dude with f all hours on type, just the type that is oh so easy to bait in the mess. One team, one fight young man. Banter is one thing, the over-exuberance of youth another. I'm not a pig driver, but respect the jet, and most of the guys who fly them :o).
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Captain C,
Where did you gain your vast insight into the respective merits of either operator??
Pull your head in...oh and bye the way, in which planet does it take one year to convert onto a new type????
Where did you gain your vast insight into the respective merits of either operator??
Pull your head in...oh and bye the way, in which planet does it take one year to convert onto a new type????
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How much of a gap will retirement of the F111 fleet really leave in our defences? I think the deterrent card is overplayed in this case. It's not the 70's or 80's anymore. A couple of dozen F111's, whilst being amazingly capable strike platforms, are smaller players these days in the Su27/33 equipped Asian environment. Long term servicability in any operation, as well as prolonged ordnance supply would be a significant achilles heel. I agree with soulman. 15's or 18E/F. Hard to look past a phased array equipped 15 thogh.
Evertonian
Why not get a few squadrons of Flankers, rip the avionics & engines out & upgrade them? Alternatively, we could get all the remaining Nomads and............
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kmagyoyo,
I normally convert to a new type on a planet, not in one. But then you seem to know more about this than I do...
Biggles,
I do respect pig drivers (anybody who sits calmly, at night, watching the flash of the anti-col beacon reflecting off the trees deserves respect). My point was that they would have a big shock to convert to a real fighter. The pig is a dinosaur bomber, and that's all. Great at what it does, but that's all. It's not an A to A machine's backside.
And if you two turkeys would care to meet me on the 090 at 50 at any height you like, I'm more than willing to oblige! Sounds like I'll be drinking free for a long time!
I normally convert to a new type on a planet, not in one. But then you seem to know more about this than I do...
Biggles,
I do respect pig drivers (anybody who sits calmly, at night, watching the flash of the anti-col beacon reflecting off the trees deserves respect). My point was that they would have a big shock to convert to a real fighter. The pig is a dinosaur bomber, and that's all. Great at what it does, but that's all. It's not an A to A machine's backside.
And if you two turkeys would care to meet me on the 090 at 50 at any height you like, I'm more than willing to oblige! Sounds like I'll be drinking free for a long time!
Last edited by Captain Custard; 8th Aug 2003 at 21:34.
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Captian Custard you sir r a w^nker!
I could wax your tail in a bloody Seneca anytime,.... that is a pig of an aeroplane for sure.....
Have some respect for the boys who defend our country regardless which type they fly. We are lucky to have them considering the pittance spent on defence here.
May I suggest you hang up your anorak and go sail a boat?
I could wax your tail in a bloody Seneca anytime,.... that is a pig of an aeroplane for sure.....
Have some respect for the boys who defend our country regardless which type they fly. We are lucky to have them considering the pittance spent on defence here.
May I suggest you hang up your anorak and go sail a boat?