Oldmeadow Sponsored Anti-Union plan at QF
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Oldmeadow Sponsored Anti-Union plan at QF
A source high up in flight ops has told me of a meeting between Geoff Dixon and all company union reps (not just flight ops) that will occur in the next two months
At this meeting QAL will table a proposal the final outcome of which will be a radically restructured labour force across all employment categories with wages at levels between 35-50% less than current.
Although I am not aware of the exact mechanism of what will precipitate the breaking of the collective barganing process (EBA) I have been made aware of the QF desired outcome.
Oldmeadow is the architect of the plan. He has been consulting to QF for approx 3 years now and reportedly has planned this action carefully. However it is to be done has reportedly been carefully checked and vetted by the QF legal team.
Oldmeadow has reportedly singled out the pilot body for 'special' attention.
Whilst I realise we have a validly negotiated, legally enforceably EBA at present - somehow this is going to be circumvented. My source believes that the offer of individual contracts could be one mechanism.
I am dismayed at these actions by Qantas. AIPA has been an industrially meek union that has (in my 15 years in the company) always agreed to the big ticket cost saving items when asked.
In the case of this forthcoming period of industrial war the QF pilot body has not made and ambit claim for a huge pay rise nor is the airline in financial trouble (expected profit between 500-800m this year).
The previous EBA we agreed to a pay freeze.
The only advice I can give to other QF pilots is to write / fax / e-mail AIPA and let the COM they have your support.
I don't hold out much hope, but I feel we must do what we can.
At this meeting QAL will table a proposal the final outcome of which will be a radically restructured labour force across all employment categories with wages at levels between 35-50% less than current.
Although I am not aware of the exact mechanism of what will precipitate the breaking of the collective barganing process (EBA) I have been made aware of the QF desired outcome.
Oldmeadow is the architect of the plan. He has been consulting to QF for approx 3 years now and reportedly has planned this action carefully. However it is to be done has reportedly been carefully checked and vetted by the QF legal team.
Oldmeadow has reportedly singled out the pilot body for 'special' attention.
Whilst I realise we have a validly negotiated, legally enforceably EBA at present - somehow this is going to be circumvented. My source believes that the offer of individual contracts could be one mechanism.
I am dismayed at these actions by Qantas. AIPA has been an industrially meek union that has (in my 15 years in the company) always agreed to the big ticket cost saving items when asked.
In the case of this forthcoming period of industrial war the QF pilot body has not made and ambit claim for a huge pay rise nor is the airline in financial trouble (expected profit between 500-800m this year).
The previous EBA we agreed to a pay freeze.
The only advice I can give to other QF pilots is to write / fax / e-mail AIPA and let the COM they have your support.
I don't hold out much hope, but I feel we must do what we can.
Last edited by fartsock; 21st Jul 2003 at 19:44.
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It's going to be interesting to see how Kaptin M and Amos2 will set the blame for this at the feet of the ex-AN pilots now with QF,
"...the cancer within", if memory serves me correctly.
You all at QF have my sympathy, fartsock.
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
"...the cancer within", if memory serves me correctly.
You all at QF have my sympathy, fartsock.
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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Mention of Oldmeadow reminds me of a meeting held many years ago between Kruschev and Chou En Lai.
Krushev made some reference to Chou's upper crust background at which Chou suggested that this made both of them traitors to their class.
Oldmeadow is a hired gun, unhindered by any moral philosophy.
From union official through his time at Ansett and then QF he has consistently changed colours and done whatever required in order to climb the ladder as fast as possible. I am sure his diary for 1989 holds pride of place in his library.
He doesn't blink even if confronted with evidence of contradictory behaviour.
He will polish apples for anyone who waves a big cheque in his face.
If this is indeed happening then I wish you all the best of luck.
You will need it.
Krushev made some reference to Chou's upper crust background at which Chou suggested that this made both of them traitors to their class.
Oldmeadow is a hired gun, unhindered by any moral philosophy.
From union official through his time at Ansett and then QF he has consistently changed colours and done whatever required in order to climb the ladder as fast as possible. I am sure his diary for 1989 holds pride of place in his library.
He doesn't blink even if confronted with evidence of contradictory behaviour.
He will polish apples for anyone who waves a big cheque in his face.
If this is indeed happening then I wish you all the best of luck.
You will need it.
Last edited by Traffic; 21st Jul 2003 at 21:52.
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Call me naive... call me a Taxi... but the resigned tone there FS... you speak as if it is a fait accompli.
The EBA process is law. If it could be circumvented to achieve the desird QF income then they would have done it by now. You speak as if Oldmeadow will somehow engineer a 89 style putsch in order to achieve this outcome for Qantas.
AIPA, while as you say, up till now meek and mild, is not up against the wall with no options.
No need for hysteria... just calm, rational action within the law.
No one need resign... no one need have writs taken out against them.
Qantas is a public company. TAA and Ansett never were. That fact in itself is constantly overlooked in this forum... too many 89'ers in here I guess.. ( watch the accusations of NAIVE fly now)
A unilateral demand for a 35% wage cut over an EBA without justification can be met within the law.
The last thing QF needs is lawful industrial action by it's pilots.
Too many people forget this... this ain't 89.
Chill out guys..
The EBA process is law. If it could be circumvented to achieve the desird QF income then they would have done it by now. You speak as if Oldmeadow will somehow engineer a 89 style putsch in order to achieve this outcome for Qantas.
AIPA, while as you say, up till now meek and mild, is not up against the wall with no options.
No need for hysteria... just calm, rational action within the law.
No one need resign... no one need have writs taken out against them.
Qantas is a public company. TAA and Ansett never were. That fact in itself is constantly overlooked in this forum... too many 89'ers in here I guess.. ( watch the accusations of NAIVE fly now)
A unilateral demand for a 35% wage cut over an EBA without justification can be met within the law.
The last thing QF needs is lawful industrial action by it's pilots.
Too many people forget this... this ain't 89.
Chill out guys..
I tend to agree with The_Cutest_of_Borg. I'm finding it hard to believe (or is it hope?) that QF is really planning such a hardline assault on the conditions of its employees, including pilots. But then again, maybe I'm evian water *
fartsock - righto, some questions to help figure out whether what you say is credible or not:
(1) have you contacted AIPA about this?
(2) if "yes", what was their response? If "no", why not?
(3) ok, hows about you tell us who the "source high up in flight ops" is. If you don't want/can't name the name outright here, well, tell us his/her initials (should be able to figure it then). Or Private MSg me. It is one thing to say what you say and keep sources anonimous. It's another to actually put a name to it. It goes to the heart of the CREDIBILITY of the story. Without some proof of credibility, I really don't know whether this is just scaremongering, or something close to the truth.
Thanks
* Read "evian" backwards - makes you wonder about people who buy that stuff.
fartsock - righto, some questions to help figure out whether what you say is credible or not:
(1) have you contacted AIPA about this?
(2) if "yes", what was their response? If "no", why not?
(3) ok, hows about you tell us who the "source high up in flight ops" is. If you don't want/can't name the name outright here, well, tell us his/her initials (should be able to figure it then). Or Private MSg me. It is one thing to say what you say and keep sources anonimous. It's another to actually put a name to it. It goes to the heart of the CREDIBILITY of the story. Without some proof of credibility, I really don't know whether this is just scaremongering, or something close to the truth.
Thanks
* Read "evian" backwards - makes you wonder about people who buy that stuff.
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Scenario as follows:
Qantas need significant cost savings to survive in ever competitive deregulated global market.
Due to EBA's and Union muscle, wage cuts are not easily achieved.
Management "leaks" information about proposed 35% wage cuts and or significant layoffs.
Unions get outraged, much vitriol and rhetoric about '89 etc, talk of strikes and betrayal by fat cat management.
After initial outrage subsides and members have had time to adjust to proposed changes, Unions are eventually invited to bargaining table.
After much posturing and chest pounding, Unions and company settle for between 10 and 20% cuts to be implemented gradually combining wage freezes, productivity increases, workplace reforms and minimal job losses.
Sound familiar, sort of like the waterfront reform of a few years back. The Unions walked away claiming a moral victory, because they managed to stop the strikebreakers from taking their jobs, but in fact, the government and company achieved most of what they set out to achieve in the beginning.
Qantas need significant cost savings to survive in ever competitive deregulated global market.
Due to EBA's and Union muscle, wage cuts are not easily achieved.
Management "leaks" information about proposed 35% wage cuts and or significant layoffs.
Unions get outraged, much vitriol and rhetoric about '89 etc, talk of strikes and betrayal by fat cat management.
After initial outrage subsides and members have had time to adjust to proposed changes, Unions are eventually invited to bargaining table.
After much posturing and chest pounding, Unions and company settle for between 10 and 20% cuts to be implemented gradually combining wage freezes, productivity increases, workplace reforms and minimal job losses.
Sound familiar, sort of like the waterfront reform of a few years back. The Unions walked away claiming a moral victory, because they managed to stop the strikebreakers from taking their jobs, but in fact, the government and company achieved most of what they set out to achieve in the beginning.
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35% - SH!T!!!
Exactly how much money do QF want to save? I, and many others will believe this is an extraordinary figure.
Here's something to think about, from the 2002 financial report. Manpower and staff related costs were $6,689.2 million, distributed amongst 33,000 workers equates to an average income of $202,703. (Somebody must be making a hell of a lot to get the average that high)! Now, if everyone was willing to take a 4% pay cut, or $8,108, this would achieve an annual saving of $267.5 million, quite a lot of dough. I'm sure the workforce would welcome this 4% a lot more that 35%!
There may be expenses in the staff related costs that I've overlooked such as super etc, but hey, I'm no accountant. Even if the average was $100,000 per staff member then $130 million is nothing to sneeze at.
Cheers
CC
Exactly how much money do QF want to save? I, and many others will believe this is an extraordinary figure.
Here's something to think about, from the 2002 financial report. Manpower and staff related costs were $6,689.2 million, distributed amongst 33,000 workers equates to an average income of $202,703. (Somebody must be making a hell of a lot to get the average that high)! Now, if everyone was willing to take a 4% pay cut, or $8,108, this would achieve an annual saving of $267.5 million, quite a lot of dough. I'm sure the workforce would welcome this 4% a lot more that 35%!
There may be expenses in the staff related costs that I've overlooked such as super etc, but hey, I'm no accountant. Even if the average was $100,000 per staff member then $130 million is nothing to sneeze at.
Cheers
CC
Last edited by Cap10 Caveman; 22nd Jul 2003 at 14:25.
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Horse****! Absolute and utter horse****!
There is nothing that can be said to justify cutting a pilots wages by even a fraction!
All you bright sparks out there with your eloquent and seemingly logical posts that continue inexorably to point to a reduction of wages are missing or deliberately ignoring the fact that QF is making a profit!
What man in his right mind would even contemplate a wage cut in the face of this reality?
And don't start with this pre-emptive bull**** about acting now before its all too late. Thats management sponsored smoke and mirrors horse**** designed to confuse those poor unfortunates who live with the bible in their hand!
It beggars belief that there are people who fall for this tripe on a regular basis!
By the way SELDOMFIXIT, have you checked out the wages of pilots working at Australian Airlines?
Wake up folks we are dealing with the devil himself! Exponential profit and corporate excesses are never virtuous and must not be confused with ethics honour and common decency!
Stop bending over for the man!
There is nothing that can be said to justify cutting a pilots wages by even a fraction!
All you bright sparks out there with your eloquent and seemingly logical posts that continue inexorably to point to a reduction of wages are missing or deliberately ignoring the fact that QF is making a profit!
What man in his right mind would even contemplate a wage cut in the face of this reality?
And don't start with this pre-emptive bull**** about acting now before its all too late. Thats management sponsored smoke and mirrors horse**** designed to confuse those poor unfortunates who live with the bible in their hand!
It beggars belief that there are people who fall for this tripe on a regular basis!
By the way SELDOMFIXIT, have you checked out the wages of pilots working at Australian Airlines?
Wake up folks we are dealing with the devil himself! Exponential profit and corporate excesses are never virtuous and must not be confused with ethics honour and common decency!
Stop bending over for the man!
Last edited by huan hung lo; 23rd Jul 2003 at 18:39.
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hey huan hung lo,.....qantas WAS making a profit! The airline is expected to reveal it has plunged into the red for the first half of this calander year (2nd half of its fiscal year) to the tune of perhaps 50 million!
That should be ringing alarm bells in most peoples mind. Anyhow the best barometer of how Qantas is performing or better still, how it is anticipated to perform is the share price! And it aint painting a pretty picture. The trend is down.
Virgin is certainly making good progress on market share which should be of concern to all Qantas stakeholders including employee's.
pb
That should be ringing alarm bells in most peoples mind. Anyhow the best barometer of how Qantas is performing or better still, how it is anticipated to perform is the share price! And it aint painting a pretty picture. The trend is down.
Virgin is certainly making good progress on market share which should be of concern to all Qantas stakeholders including employee's.
pb
Exactly which parts of QF are making a forecast profit?
International?
domestic?
Holidays?
Engineering?
Cargo?
If the answer is NO to any of the above then look out, as all the rest, along with the under performer, will be in the spot light for cost savings!!!!!
halas
International?
domestic?
Holidays?
Engineering?
Cargo?
If the answer is NO to any of the above then look out, as all the rest, along with the under performer, will be in the spot light for cost savings!!!!!
halas
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You guys just crack me up!
I am not interested in quarters or fifths of financial years.
The measure stands as a yearly result and its forecast to be a profit of about $350 000 000.
Wake up fellas!
I am yet to see any justification for a wage cut!
QF in the red? Bull****!
Ur2 you can do better than that! Cmon give it your best shot!
I am not interested in quarters or fifths of financial years.
The measure stands as a yearly result and its forecast to be a profit of about $350 000 000.
Wake up fellas!
I am yet to see any justification for a wage cut!
QF in the red? Bull****!
Ur2 you can do better than that! Cmon give it your best shot!
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how about a 33% pay INCREASE
Oldmeadow is a little old man who thinks he has some clout.We took him on in Engineering in 01-02.Where they were looking for pay freezes and o/t banks and I came out with a 33% pay increase in light of 11th SEPT .All you have to do is stand up to the little man and he'll back down.We lost 4 wks wages but we got a desired outcome.Have a go boys his not that big and bad,Dixon just thinks Oldmeadow has some clout because his wifes an I/R commsioner.what a waste of investors money.
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Powerbeat 12,
You mention that QF performance should be judged by the share price.
Now this is the same share market that sold down NAB shares when they recorded a $2 billion profit because the shareholders felt that they should have made more??!!
The stockmarket seems like a refuge for people who suffer from paranoia and panic attacks. Unfortunately, it seems that anything that happens in the world - industrial troubles, potential wars, contagious illnesses, fuel price, exchange rates, interest rates, someone with constipation - affects the airline share price.
I get tired of Dixon talking about loyaly to the shareholder. If they had shares in their mother, and she had a heart attack, they would sell their shares before they phoned the doctor.
You mention that QF performance should be judged by the share price.
Now this is the same share market that sold down NAB shares when they recorded a $2 billion profit because the shareholders felt that they should have made more??!!
The stockmarket seems like a refuge for people who suffer from paranoia and panic attacks. Unfortunately, it seems that anything that happens in the world - industrial troubles, potential wars, contagious illnesses, fuel price, exchange rates, interest rates, someone with constipation - affects the airline share price.
I get tired of Dixon talking about loyaly to the shareholder. If they had shares in their mother, and she had a heart attack, they would sell their shares before they phoned the doctor.
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H H L
Are you serious or just a wind up?
It does not matter how big the profit is, if there is a chance to bend a driver over, management will take the window of opportunity to shaft you each and every time. And yes, I have worked on both sides of the fence, driver and non driver management.
These are the realities of business man - don't be so naive.
I was a driver for a small GA company when 9/11 happened. Within a couple of weeks, even though business was not affected, we were told we going to get a 20% pay cut. Why? - because they saw a golden opportunity for a right royal shafting.
We took the Directors out for a feed, got them crissed as pickets
and actually got a 10% pay rise.
Welcome to the new world order - the same old disorder?
A friend of mine, his father is a senior Capt. with ??? and he said to me, "mate, is does not change when you get into a major airline, they just screw you with a bigger di@k".
Are you serious or just a wind up?
It does not matter how big the profit is, if there is a chance to bend a driver over, management will take the window of opportunity to shaft you each and every time. And yes, I have worked on both sides of the fence, driver and non driver management.
These are the realities of business man - don't be so naive.
I was a driver for a small GA company when 9/11 happened. Within a couple of weeks, even though business was not affected, we were told we going to get a 20% pay cut. Why? - because they saw a golden opportunity for a right royal shafting.
We took the Directors out for a feed, got them crissed as pickets
and actually got a 10% pay rise.
Welcome to the new world order - the same old disorder?
A friend of mine, his father is a senior Capt. with ??? and he said to me, "mate, is does not change when you get into a major airline, they just screw you with a bigger di@k".