Ex AN pilots now in QF - the cancer within??
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Ex AN pilots now in QF - the cancer within??
Having had some time to sit down and read "The secret Qantas", it would appear that similar strategies to those used some 14 years ago - and immediately preceding - against the pilots of Ansett, Australian, IPEC and East-West, are again being brought into play in QANTAS.
Which leads one to ask where the PRIMARY cancer is located?
Reading through the QANTAS article, and then flicking through past documents, one or two names resurface time and again....from "The secret Qantas":The planning for the FAAA strike illustrates Qantas's aggressive stance on union issues. Unionists attribute the strategy variously to Kevin Brown, the executive general manager of operations, David Forsyth; and a consultant, Ian Oldmeadow, who runs an industrial relations consultancy called Oldmeadow Consulting. Oldmeadow was industrial relations manager for Ansett during the 1989 pilots' dispute, which is credited with breaking the pilot union's negotiating power.
It's no secret that a company's worst fear is a strike - especially a prolonged (in excess of 10 - 14 days) one. However, companies have now also turned the tables, such that workers today are afraid to go on strike for fear of being replaced - permanently. Hence the threat of having workers being immediately ready to step in - vs losing serious non-income revenue earning periods, due strike action - appears to dilute organised labours' threat of action even further.
Avoid an all out strike at ALL costs, is the primary objective of I.R. managers - and no cost is spared....least of all the ENORMOUS salary packages awarded to the Oldmeadows, etc.
The QANTAS I.R. people need to justify their non-revenue productive role within the company by producing some visible evidence that they are producing a return.
Australian Airlines and Jet Connect are 2 such examples, although goodness only knows the REAL COST in setting these companies up. Tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars!
Again, the appointment of The Lawn Mower Man, is Oldmeadow & Co. feeling around - and occasionally penetrating - the edges of the pilot body.
Why the pilots and the Flight Attendants? Because they are "high profile", considered by other staff as probably being about the hardest to replace in a toe-to-toe with the company, and the most unionised.
Again, another name familiar to ex-Ansett staff appears in "The secret Qantas":Qantas also called in casual flight attendants from the labor-hire company Maurice Alexander Management (MAM) to help break the strike. Maurice Alexander, a former FAAA union official, has about 120 casual flight attendants on his books. He runs his business from a residential address in Hawthorn East, Melbourne. The business is not listed in the telephone book.
The recent Cathay fiasco is something that Mr Oldmeadow will be trying to avoid. QANTAS would suffer severely (as did CX) with a prolonged action that would see Virgin Blue rapidly gain ground, AND facilitate the entry of another major player - however I would also imagine that the castle and rooks of Australian and Jet Connect would be quickly brought into play faster than they are currently being utilised.
The cancer is well within, I suspect!
Which leads one to ask where the PRIMARY cancer is located?
Reading through the QANTAS article, and then flicking through past documents, one or two names resurface time and again....from "The secret Qantas":The planning for the FAAA strike illustrates Qantas's aggressive stance on union issues. Unionists attribute the strategy variously to Kevin Brown, the executive general manager of operations, David Forsyth; and a consultant, Ian Oldmeadow, who runs an industrial relations consultancy called Oldmeadow Consulting. Oldmeadow was industrial relations manager for Ansett during the 1989 pilots' dispute, which is credited with breaking the pilot union's negotiating power.
It's no secret that a company's worst fear is a strike - especially a prolonged (in excess of 10 - 14 days) one. However, companies have now also turned the tables, such that workers today are afraid to go on strike for fear of being replaced - permanently. Hence the threat of having workers being immediately ready to step in - vs losing serious non-income revenue earning periods, due strike action - appears to dilute organised labours' threat of action even further.
Avoid an all out strike at ALL costs, is the primary objective of I.R. managers - and no cost is spared....least of all the ENORMOUS salary packages awarded to the Oldmeadows, etc.
The QANTAS I.R. people need to justify their non-revenue productive role within the company by producing some visible evidence that they are producing a return.
Australian Airlines and Jet Connect are 2 such examples, although goodness only knows the REAL COST in setting these companies up. Tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars!
Again, the appointment of The Lawn Mower Man, is Oldmeadow & Co. feeling around - and occasionally penetrating - the edges of the pilot body.
Why the pilots and the Flight Attendants? Because they are "high profile", considered by other staff as probably being about the hardest to replace in a toe-to-toe with the company, and the most unionised.
Again, another name familiar to ex-Ansett staff appears in "The secret Qantas":Qantas also called in casual flight attendants from the labor-hire company Maurice Alexander Management (MAM) to help break the strike. Maurice Alexander, a former FAAA union official, has about 120 casual flight attendants on his books. He runs his business from a residential address in Hawthorn East, Melbourne. The business is not listed in the telephone book.
The recent Cathay fiasco is something that Mr Oldmeadow will be trying to avoid. QANTAS would suffer severely (as did CX) with a prolonged action that would see Virgin Blue rapidly gain ground, AND facilitate the entry of another major player - however I would also imagine that the castle and rooks of Australian and Jet Connect would be quickly brought into play faster than they are currently being utilised.
The cancer is well within, I suspect!
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And remember that Mr. Oldmeadow is a former senior ACTU Industrial Officer who learned his trade at the feet of Crean, Kelty and Hawke. Lets also remember that Ansett had hired another former union official Mr. Coysh from the AFAP as part of their "poacher turned gamekeeper" strategy. In the end they felt that they knew more about the AFAP than the members did. They were wrong of course and they, (together with the picket line crossers) cost them the airline and cost the shareholders zillions.
For other Qantas staff there's a little take home lesson in all of this....many, many thousands of non-pilot jobs were lost at Australian, Ansett, EWA and IPEC and many of those people stood back during 1989 mouthing the silent prayer "this will never happen to me".
Stubborn, blinkered intransigience on the part of management and silence by the other employees is a recipe for disaster. Solidarity amongst pilots is all you have to counter those twin threats.
For other Qantas staff there's a little take home lesson in all of this....many, many thousands of non-pilot jobs were lost at Australian, Ansett, EWA and IPEC and many of those people stood back during 1989 mouthing the silent prayer "this will never happen to me".
Stubborn, blinkered intransigience on the part of management and silence by the other employees is a recipe for disaster. Solidarity amongst pilots is all you have to counter those twin threats.
short flights long nights
And, what with, a group of 89 heros in the QF domestic ranks, this whole thing could get REAL interesting.
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Kap,
The reality is that to justify the additional setup and ongoing duplicated administrative costs associated with AO and Jet Connect, QF must expnad both route structures at the expense of current mainline flying.
The support this are scum like oldmeadow and alexander abely abetted (when the time is right) by the 'super heros' still in QF shorthaul.
The reality is that to justify the additional setup and ongoing duplicated administrative costs associated with AO and Jet Connect, QF must expnad both route structures at the expense of current mainline flying.
The support this are scum like oldmeadow and alexander abely abetted (when the time is right) by the 'super heros' still in QF shorthaul.
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From the same article, comes this extract from sub-article, titled "Diary of a strike-breaker":'When the strike came along, I had a call from someone at Qantas HR indicating who I should report to. [Interstate flights to Sydney and hotel accommodation had been pre-arranged]. They tried not to get local staff to report in local areas. Then you just go and gather in the conference room for a briefing. [We were told] we might be abused, to walk straight, say absolutely nothing, and if anybody was getting abusive or getting close or physical, just call security....
'Then everybody got allocated their task. On our site, fortunately, there weren't any incidents. They sold us in the manner of 'you help us and we will help you'. At that stage, I thought it was something I could help them with. Things have changed since then; there's a lot of restructuring and a lot of redundancies. None of the loyalty is shown back. Now they have turned around, retrenching right across [the company], which also affects the people who supported Qantas. It was actually during the strike period [we] realised how we had been used.'
The scabs are merely (willing) tools (or fools), used as a convenient means to an endgame, and like pawns will be sacrificed at the appropriate time, if necessary.
Many of the large airlines are (and have been) imo, rorted by management excesses of incredulous salaries and "performance bonuses".
Those at the coal face are being dispensed with in the name of "productivity", but in REALITY it is to support the lifestyles of what really amounts to non-accountable management.
'Then everybody got allocated their task. On our site, fortunately, there weren't any incidents. They sold us in the manner of 'you help us and we will help you'. At that stage, I thought it was something I could help them with. Things have changed since then; there's a lot of restructuring and a lot of redundancies. None of the loyalty is shown back. Now they have turned around, retrenching right across [the company], which also affects the people who supported Qantas. It was actually during the strike period [we] realised how we had been used.'
The scabs are merely (willing) tools (or fools), used as a convenient means to an endgame, and like pawns will be sacrificed at the appropriate time, if necessary.
Many of the large airlines are (and have been) imo, rorted by management excesses of incredulous salaries and "performance bonuses".
Those at the coal face are being dispensed with in the name of "productivity", but in REALITY it is to support the lifestyles of what really amounts to non-accountable management.
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...ah,yes!...Oldmeadows, a true scumbag of the highest order!...and let's not forget his wife... for those who know their history!!
And Alexander eh!...why am I not surprised!...taking a leaf out of Coyshs' book obviously!
Oh boy!...if you didn't think aviation was stuffed in this country...think again!!
And Alexander eh!...why am I not surprised!...taking a leaf out of Coyshs' book obviously!
Oh boy!...if you didn't think aviation was stuffed in this country...think again!!
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Kaptin M and Amos:
I never thought I would write this, but for once I see myself in agreeance with you...
Indeed. I.O's wife has 2 ar&#holes...One of them she's married to.
I never thought I would write this, but for once I see myself in agreeance with you...
Indeed. I.O's wife has 2 ar&#holes...One of them she's married to.
Last edited by Hugh Jarse; 16th Jul 2003 at 05:31.
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Thread Starter
Get to know them.
From Sky Pirates:-
Oldmeadow's new union job (with CAGEO) gave him his first taste of power. He worked in the ACTU.....came to know Bill Kelty fairly well, and later Bob Hawke.
In 1982 he married Justine Saville, an official with the Australian Postal and Telecommunications Union. It was a second marriage for both of them........shortly after (the 1989 dispute, and the birth of their third child) Justine was appointed a deputy president of the Industrial Relations Commission.
In 1989, Oldmeadow was thriving in his career at Ansett and effectively ran the pilots' dispute on a day-to-day basis from the airline's Melbourne headquarters.
Perhaps a match made in ....... Jarse!!
Until the 1989 dispute, Ian Oldmeadow had always been the bridesmaid, but never the bride, with his appointments in the ACTU, and as 2 ic to McMahon in Ansett.
It's quite likely that because of his wife's influence, he was able to have the "wins" that he did, in the IRC at that time, which then allowed him to "sell" himself as something of an IR maestro.
Nonetheless, ALL of the QANTAS employees now need to see themselves as one unified group, imo.
From Sky Pirates:-
Oldmeadow's new union job (with CAGEO) gave him his first taste of power. He worked in the ACTU.....came to know Bill Kelty fairly well, and later Bob Hawke.
In 1982 he married Justine Saville, an official with the Australian Postal and Telecommunications Union. It was a second marriage for both of them........shortly after (the 1989 dispute, and the birth of their third child) Justine was appointed a deputy president of the Industrial Relations Commission.
In 1989, Oldmeadow was thriving in his career at Ansett and effectively ran the pilots' dispute on a day-to-day basis from the airline's Melbourne headquarters.
Perhaps a match made in ....... Jarse!!
Until the 1989 dispute, Ian Oldmeadow had always been the bridesmaid, but never the bride, with his appointments in the ACTU, and as 2 ic to McMahon in Ansett.
It's quite likely that because of his wife's influence, he was able to have the "wins" that he did, in the IRC at that time, which then allowed him to "sell" himself as something of an IR maestro.
Nonetheless, ALL of the QANTAS employees now need to see themselves as one unified group, imo.
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QF management must have a hard time keeping a straight face – make that ‘not laughing out loud’! – at the thought that, as hostilities with their workforce commence, they’ve got a couple of hundred ‘Trojan Horses’ with proven track records already on their books.
On top of that, they have a few new hires who, whilst not ‘heroic’ themselves, have worked in close enough proximity to another lot of heroes for long enough for some of them to have possibly picked up a few fleas…
Interesting times indeed ahead...
When push comes to shove, as it appears it soon will, the non-hero QF pilots would do well to remember the story about leopards and their spots…
On top of that, they have a few new hires who, whilst not ‘heroic’ themselves, have worked in close enough proximity to another lot of heroes for long enough for some of them to have possibly picked up a few fleas…
Interesting times indeed ahead...
When push comes to shove, as it appears it soon will, the non-hero QF pilots would do well to remember the story about leopards and their spots…
short flights long nights
Could not agree more, Spad
Kap M,
Yes, Qantas seems to be involved in the same sort of practices that the Japanese engaged in setting up JEX, Air Japan, JALWAYS etc. Undercutting their mainline pilots by employing blow-ins from else where. Obviously no self-respecting, union loving pilot would involve himeself in such activities (unless he was the type who had already shown these tendencies by applying for a job during the '89 employment ban.)
As to the title of this thread, how does the employment of Oldmeadows, strike planning by Qantas etc. have ANYTHING to do with the fact that ex AN pilots are now working for them?
Yes, Qantas seems to be involved in the same sort of practices that the Japanese engaged in setting up JEX, Air Japan, JALWAYS etc. Undercutting their mainline pilots by employing blow-ins from else where. Obviously no self-respecting, union loving pilot would involve himeself in such activities (unless he was the type who had already shown these tendencies by applying for a job during the '89 employment ban.)
As to the title of this thread, how does the employment of Oldmeadows, strike planning by Qantas etc. have ANYTHING to do with the fact that ex AN pilots are now working for them?
Last edited by Wizofoz; 17th Jul 2003 at 04:32.
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Wiz, you`d be better suited to the building industry than flying - you`re as thick as two short planks, if you need an interpretation of what has been written in the preceding postings! 
As to your analogies of the Japanese subsidiary airlines - the foreign pilots who work for them are on vastly different (better) conditions to the Japanese to the best of my knowledge, eg. monthly commuting, free housing, free/subsidised gas, electricity, telephone, transport to & from home,etc...plus a USD salary. None of which the Japanese get, but can aspire to.
As to your analogies of the Japanese subsidiary airlines - the foreign pilots who work for them are on vastly different (better) conditions to the Japanese to the best of my knowledge, eg. monthly commuting, free housing, free/subsidised gas, electricity, telephone, transport to & from home,etc...plus a USD salary. None of which the Japanese get, but can aspire to.
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You are just God's gift to aviation aren't you Kaptin M? No trouble guessing what you do for a living, im sure you tell everybody you can.
Im getting sick of continually skipping over huge posts by you that are so obviously biased and untrue.
Hopefully you will get a life soon and stop invading the majority of the posts on here with dribble.
Im getting sick of continually skipping over huge posts by you that are so obviously biased and untrue.
Hopefully you will get a life soon and stop invading the majority of the posts on here with dribble.
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It is hard not to laugh at the pitiful state the industry is in, given the (still unheard by heroes) warnings given by those who could see beyond the quick buck and the rapid command given to scabs and the like.
The AIPA is hopeless, it was established by a bunch of self-serving dissidents on the OS Branch, who believed that the bodily waste of a QF pilot did not effuse an offensive aroma. With odd exceptions, that is a view generally still held by them, and of course with the influx of scabs from AN, any industrial confrontation started by QF management will be a walk in the park for the company.
Got it yet, Wiz et al?
The AIPA is hopeless, it was established by a bunch of self-serving dissidents on the OS Branch, who believed that the bodily waste of a QF pilot did not effuse an offensive aroma. With odd exceptions, that is a view generally still held by them, and of course with the influx of scabs from AN, any industrial confrontation started by QF management will be a walk in the park for the company.
Got it yet, Wiz et al?
short flights long nights
Jetconnect IS on the way..just the start I think of some interesting times ahead!!!
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Not at all, GT-R. The current contract was available to everyone - not everyone wanted, or applied, for it. I had no part in setting the conditions, that was between the contractor and the companies, and is (pretty much) the same for every other foreign pilot here in this company.
If YOU'RE envious of the conditions, then apply - like the other guys did!
"Im getting sick of continually skipping over huge posts by you that are so obviously biased and untrue." Well here's a clue, put my name in the "Click ignore".
Biased? What contributor here isn't?
Untrue? That's YOUR opinion, however I never deliberately set out to post untruths, and if you feel that you can prove me wrong, please go ahead. It helps make for intelligent debate, rather than just slagging the poster.
I have a life (that's a pretty well-worn out phrase now, btw), thanks GT-R.......and the word is "drivel".
If YOU'RE envious of the conditions, then apply - like the other guys did!
"Im getting sick of continually skipping over huge posts by you that are so obviously biased and untrue." Well here's a clue, put my name in the "Click ignore".
Biased? What contributor here isn't?
Untrue? That's YOUR opinion, however I never deliberately set out to post untruths, and if you feel that you can prove me wrong, please go ahead. It helps make for intelligent debate, rather than just slagging the poster.
I have a life (that's a pretty well-worn out phrase now, btw), thanks GT-R.......and the word is "drivel".
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Isn't it terrible how Qantas are attempting to lower pilot salaries to a level comparable with their domestic competitor.
I do not understand what most of the posters here are seeking to achieve?
Do they expect QF pilots to strike in order to keep their wages uncompetitive?
Maybe instead of expecting a commercially suicidal response from Qanas pilots to 'uphold professional wages' they should pressure their pre-89' buddies at the 'other' red camp to bring up their pay to the QF standard.
As for the scabs and their flea bitten former comrades in Qantas, I think you will have to wind harder on this one, so far none of the troops are biting.
I do not understand what most of the posters here are seeking to achieve?
Do they expect QF pilots to strike in order to keep their wages uncompetitive?
Maybe instead of expecting a commercially suicidal response from Qanas pilots to 'uphold professional wages' they should pressure their pre-89' buddies at the 'other' red camp to bring up their pay to the QF standard.
As for the scabs and their flea bitten former comrades in Qantas, I think you will have to wind harder on this one, so far none of the troops are biting.
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GET A F...Ken LIFE YOU WAN....ERS!... 89 was a looooooong time ago and these politics are sooo boring to normal people.
I am sick of these bull**** posts. If you hate your job/boss coworkers..... then leave.... if you hate the industry....leave otherwise shut the f...ck up and do your job.!!! Other people are grateful to have a job in this industry doing what they love FLYING and your (collective) ratings do nothing to enhance the industry or the standing of those within. Be professional, take it on the chin and GET ON WITH LIFE!!!!!!
END OF SERMON
I am sick of these bull**** posts. If you hate your job/boss coworkers..... then leave.... if you hate the industry....leave otherwise shut the f...ck up and do your job.!!! Other people are grateful to have a job in this industry doing what they love FLYING and your (collective) ratings do nothing to enhance the industry or the standing of those within. Be professional, take it on the chin and GET ON WITH LIFE!!!!!!
END OF SERMON
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Who's the loser who posted this thread? My mates who fly with the ex AN guys at QF have nothing but praise for them. They've all said they're good guys who operate well, fit in and are very greatful to have a job; end of story. Very few had anything to do with 89. As for LMM he bombed on the psyche twice and his mate back doored him into a non flying job which is about to become a flying job. NICE! If you want something genuine to complain about there it is. Also the feed back from OS is the same re the ex AN guys. The fact is that a number of companies have employed them because they were very well trained, experienced and fit in well with others. All this other rubbish is a load of crap. As for salaries it's VB pilots that should be trying to lift their salary and conditions to that of QF! The pressure should be coming from those pilots not the other way around. The QF guys must be amazed at how weak the VB guys are re salaries. Anyone on here who thinks otherwise deserve to get paid peanuts and has obvously been bluffed by the VB marketing hype. Ok let me have it.