Qantas Heavy Landing At Sydney?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Usually out of a suitcase.
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As a cabin crew member I see daily how many pax simply ignore the saftey demo. The ones that are watching are usually ownly looking at the FA and not listening. I have witnessed many pax even seated in emergancy exits sit there and chat or read through the entire demo. I would say one in 100 actually really listen. I always smile, nod or give a wink to the pax that actually look around for the closest exit, feel for the life jacket or pick up and read their saftey card. That makes me feel good, that I have at least got through to one or two on board.
And as for pax ignoring the FA's commands to remove high heels, I would believe that. I have done a precautionary disembarkation once,and even after telling pax to leave bags behind, 95% of them disembarked taking their bags with them.
And as for pax ignoring the FA's commands to remove high heels, I would believe that. I have done a precautionary disembarkation once,and even after telling pax to leave bags behind, 95% of them disembarked taking their bags with them.
Evertonian
Parry. When you are finished, why not lean towards the unattentive pax in the EMEX & whisper; "That last little bit will save your life!" Then walk away...
I must admit to being one that does ignore you guys, I'm sorry. I've just heard it so often, that I tune out...
I must admit to being one that does ignore you guys, I'm sorry. I've just heard it so often, that I tune out...
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Traffic,
Taking the seniority list... hahaha
Taking the seniority list... hahaha
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Testicles,
You are correct. There is no n/n checklist for high brake temps. I have seen a couple of "5s", and all that happens is the park brake is released while the brakes cool.
Above "5", take off has to be delayed for 1 hour, then brakes reinspected. If the overheat occurs after take off, extend the gear for at least 6 mins. Above "7", the good book says:
"Clear runway immediately. Unless required, do not set parking brake. Do not approach gear or attempt taxi for one hour. Tyre, wheel and brake replacement may be required. If overheat occurs after take off, extend gear soon for at least 10 mins."
"Brake temperature monitor indication on EICAS may be used 10 to 15 mins after aircraft has come to a complete stop, or inflight with gear retracted, to determine recommended cooling schedule."
This info. is out of the Perf. Lims. Manual, landing section.
Cheers.
WG.
You are correct. There is no n/n checklist for high brake temps. I have seen a couple of "5s", and all that happens is the park brake is released while the brakes cool.
Above "5", take off has to be delayed for 1 hour, then brakes reinspected. If the overheat occurs after take off, extend the gear for at least 6 mins. Above "7", the good book says:
"Clear runway immediately. Unless required, do not set parking brake. Do not approach gear or attempt taxi for one hour. Tyre, wheel and brake replacement may be required. If overheat occurs after take off, extend gear soon for at least 10 mins."
"Brake temperature monitor indication on EICAS may be used 10 to 15 mins after aircraft has come to a complete stop, or inflight with gear retracted, to determine recommended cooling schedule."
This info. is out of the Perf. Lims. Manual, landing section.
Cheers.
WG.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The Coast of Sunshine, Australia
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Jeez aint Pprune great. I just learnt from MrMagoo that "Smoke from the burning brakes enters the air conditioning system via the APU." Wow and I thought the APU only provided engine start bleed air, electrical and hydraulic power. I've now got no idea what the airconditioning packs do.
Perhaps MrMagoo could help me out with this one also.
Disco Stu
Perhaps MrMagoo could help me out with this one also.
Disco Stu
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Turning the strobes off, saves fuel!!
Think laterally gents, Stu is testing the wits here!!
No APU = no AC power...and if the donks aren't turning then the hydraulics won't be flowing. No APU - no AC.
PW, Stu OBVIOUSLY omitted a "slash" from his "engine start bleed air" (it shoulda been, "engine start/bleed air").
I think the point that he (Disco Stu) was making, was that the inlet for the APU is not in the wheel well area, and that prior to being pushed into the cabin, the air is filtered and cooled via the pack being used for ground ops.
Anyone care to explain the 3rd oil line on the Dart??!!!
Think laterally gents, Stu is testing the wits here!!
No APU = no AC power...and if the donks aren't turning then the hydraulics won't be flowing. No APU - no AC.
PW, Stu OBVIOUSLY omitted a "slash" from his "engine start bleed air" (it shoulda been, "engine start/bleed air").
I think the point that he (Disco Stu) was making, was that the inlet for the APU is not in the wheel well area, and that prior to being pushed into the cabin, the air is filtered and cooled via the pack being used for ground ops.
Anyone care to explain the 3rd oil line on the Dart??!!!
Join Date: Aug 2001
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________________________________________________
Traffic. Mate, instead of running down a bloke who did his job to the letter, why don't you tell us all exactly what the FO SHOULD have done. Please! We all want to hear your incredible wisdom.
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Balance
I apologise if my attempt at levity has upset your sensitivities.
Assuming the report was correct, I did see the incongruity.
The a/c was at the ramp surrounded by ground crew and all the paraphanalia. The cabin staff had been trying to persuade pax to part with their hand baggage and footwear before pushing them out the doors and then someone comes out of the flight deck armed with a big red bottle of toxic BCF and proceeds out the upperdeck slide.
Perhaps the FO could have taken his shoes off and gone out the door without nursing the extinguisher. Both he (as it turned out) and everyone else would have been safer for it.
I do not question the intent only the execution.
Traffic. Mate, instead of running down a bloke who did his job to the letter, why don't you tell us all exactly what the FO SHOULD have done. Please! We all want to hear your incredible wisdom.
_________________________________________________
Balance
I apologise if my attempt at levity has upset your sensitivities.
Assuming the report was correct, I did see the incongruity.
The a/c was at the ramp surrounded by ground crew and all the paraphanalia. The cabin staff had been trying to persuade pax to part with their hand baggage and footwear before pushing them out the doors and then someone comes out of the flight deck armed with a big red bottle of toxic BCF and proceeds out the upperdeck slide.
Perhaps the FO could have taken his shoes off and gone out the door without nursing the extinguisher. Both he (as it turned out) and everyone else would have been safer for it.
I do not question the intent only the execution.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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OK I'll bite. On the ground with the engines shutdown, the APU normally provides the bleed air source to run the airconditioning packs. The flow of air is from ambient air to APU inlet to APU to APU bleed air to packs to cabin. Some of the news footage of QF6 showed lots of smoke around the aircraft and certainly around the APU inlet area (high up at the tail section). So I have no doubt that the APU could have ingested smoke from the brakes.
Now as for conditioned air being filtered before entering the cabin - that is true, but it does not remove all contaminents. Anyone flow near a volcanic ash cloud and smelled acrid/sulphurous fumes? Anyone had cabin crew ring up during/after start and complain of fumes in the cabin (when the wind being such that it blows the engine exhaust towards the APU inlet)? Or smelt ozone in the cabin (with storms nearby)? All examples of unusual smells being able to enter the cabin despite the air being filtered.
So could smoke from overheated/burning brakes rise up to the APU inlet travel to the airconditioning packs and enter the cabin where it is detected as an unusual smell? You betcha ya bottom dollar it can. Cheers.
Now as for conditioned air being filtered before entering the cabin - that is true, but it does not remove all contaminents. Anyone flow near a volcanic ash cloud and smelled acrid/sulphurous fumes? Anyone had cabin crew ring up during/after start and complain of fumes in the cabin (when the wind being such that it blows the engine exhaust towards the APU inlet)? Or smelt ozone in the cabin (with storms nearby)? All examples of unusual smells being able to enter the cabin despite the air being filtered.
So could smoke from overheated/burning brakes rise up to the APU inlet travel to the airconditioning packs and enter the cabin where it is detected as an unusual smell? You betcha ya bottom dollar it can. Cheers.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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It is a busy little sucker ain't it.
I my cranky 'ol memory serves me right the Poms even used its residual thrust on the Trident as a EFATO power enhancement, sorta 3 1/16th engine.
I my cranky 'ol memory serves me right the Poms even used its residual thrust on the Trident as a EFATO power enhancement, sorta 3 1/16th engine.
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Close Woomera but not exactly correct
Ahhh what a f 
horrible piece of British blacksmithing it was.
So an unusual decision was made. Hawker Siddeley offered a Trident 3B (Boost) model incorporating a fourth engine mounted above the central Spey jet just below the rudder. This would be an RB.162-86 engine derived from a military vertical-takeoff engine. (Perhaps the aircraft should have been renamed the Quadrant.) The boost engine offered an additional 15% thrust at takeoff for only a 5% weight penalty. It also offered 20% more total thrust with one Spey engine out of action, and therefore allowed aircraft operation from the shorter airfields commonly encountered. The boost engine was only intended for take-off and noise-abatement climbs after which it would be shut-down. As such it would only be used when combinations of runway length and temperature would otherwise prevent the Trident 3B from flying the required distance with the required payload.
horrible piece of British blacksmithing it was.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Traffic,
As part of QF's published Emergency Procedures, following the completion of the Passenger Evacuation checklist, it is the specific duty of the F/O to take the BCF extinguisher, proceed to the cabin and evacuate the aircraft via the first available exit (in this case, the upper deck slide). I can tell you from experience in the EPs trainer, that the upper deck slide is one hell of a ride!!
Therefore, your latest comment is irrelevant becuase the F/O was only doing his job as specified in company publications. Also, as others have pointed out, the command given to passengers is "High heels OFF". So unless the F/O was wearing high heels, he/she would have had no need to remove his/her footwear.
I guess there was little tech crew input wrt the photographs of the new QF uniform where the willowy female pilot is wearing a ripper set of stilettos. Good for male pilot fantasies but not really practical in the flight deck.
As part of QF's published Emergency Procedures, following the completion of the Passenger Evacuation checklist, it is the specific duty of the F/O to take the BCF extinguisher, proceed to the cabin and evacuate the aircraft via the first available exit (in this case, the upper deck slide). I can tell you from experience in the EPs trainer, that the upper deck slide is one hell of a ride!!
Therefore, your latest comment is irrelevant becuase the F/O was only doing his job as specified in company publications. Also, as others have pointed out, the command given to passengers is "High heels OFF". So unless the F/O was wearing high heels, he/she would have had no need to remove his/her footwear.
I guess there was little tech crew input wrt the photographs of the new QF uniform where the willowy female pilot is wearing a ripper set of stilettos. Good for male pilot fantasies but not really practical in the flight deck.
Any reason in particular that pax can actually travel wearing high heels?
I don't allow pax on board without any shoes (unfortunately I have had a few!) for exactly the reason stated above with regard to injuries during an evac. Hygiene is a close second to this.
The aircraft I fly don't have inflatable slides so I'm not too concerned about high heels in my ops. Given that we accept that sharp heels can pierce slides, and that chances are during the chaos of an evac some will not listen/hear/repond to remove them. Why not ban them?
Love to be in a life raft with someone who's shoes just popped it!!!
I don't allow pax on board without any shoes (unfortunately I have had a few!) for exactly the reason stated above with regard to injuries during an evac. Hygiene is a close second to this.
The aircraft I fly don't have inflatable slides so I'm not too concerned about high heels in my ops. Given that we accept that sharp heels can pierce slides, and that chances are during the chaos of an evac some will not listen/hear/repond to remove them. Why not ban them?
Love to be in a life raft with someone who's shoes just popped it!!!
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Shoes....
...as I said before, I can see no reasonable explanation for wearing (pointy/sharp) heels on an aircraft other than for the looks. Sneakers or loafers would be more comfortable/practical, especially in a situation like last week. Jumping over hot jagged metal in a crash is not my idea of fun in heels and/or pantyhose. I'd much rather sneakers or boots for that. Not to mention the fluid/bloating some people get at altitude....
I know that F/As wear "chunky" heels, I've always wanted to know why when it seems to make things more difficult during an evac. What would crew define as "heels"? I can't see the F/As dumping their shoes in the middle of an evac.....
And why do most airlines insist on female F/As wearing pantyhose? From what I've read both pax and crew have sustained nasty burns in some crashes due to melting stockings....
Anyone know why? (Besides "It looks good"?
)
SS
I know that F/As wear "chunky" heels, I've always wanted to know why when it seems to make things more difficult during an evac. What would crew define as "heels"? I can't see the F/As dumping their shoes in the middle of an evac.....
And why do most airlines insist on female F/As wearing pantyhose? From what I've read both pax and crew have sustained nasty burns in some crashes due to melting stockings....
Anyone know why? (Besides "It looks good"?
)SS
The Reverend
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We had a Tristar evacuation at Narita some years ago. One of the girls tucked the safety briefing card into her knickers before she went down the slide.