Ex AN pilots now in QF - the cancer within
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Well folks it has happened, the "Lawnmower Man" has been confirmed as the A330 technical pilot with promotion 800 numbers out of seniority attached.
For detail see Qrewroom or the Flt Ops Intranet website.
Unbelivable.....
For detail see Qrewroom or the Flt Ops Intranet website.
Unbelivable.....
Fartsock
The Lawn Mower man is harmless. He will talk to you like an ol friend as long as there is nobody else in the room of higher authority or rank. If so you will be dropped like a hot potato mid sentence- a relief for many.
It was not nice to see many of the Young Guns of AN management bomb out on QF testing. That they were in the system weeks later an indication that their protege TJ, had some loyalty to his former staff after all.
If QF Airbus manuals are anyway Ansettised, you will be in trouble. They were basterdised and a mess.
I thought Ansett collapsed due bad management. So somewhere there are exAN bad Managers! The whole exAN Flt Management team has been vacumed up by either QF or SQ.
The Lawn Mower man is harmless. He will talk to you like an ol friend as long as there is nobody else in the room of higher authority or rank. If so you will be dropped like a hot potato mid sentence- a relief for many.
It was not nice to see many of the Young Guns of AN management bomb out on QF testing. That they were in the system weeks later an indication that their protege TJ, had some loyalty to his former staff after all.
If QF Airbus manuals are anyway Ansettised, you will be in trouble. They were basterdised and a mess.
I thought Ansett collapsed due bad management. So somewhere there are exAN bad Managers! The whole exAN Flt Management team has been vacumed up by either QF or SQ.
Fartsock,
You say "It's Happened"
Your original post said a number of ex-AN pilots were going to be promoted out of turn in return for a pay cut.
What "Happened" was that someone with previous management experience has been utilised in a non- line flying role, entirely in keeping with QFs agreements with the AIPA.
Your original contention was outrageous, but clearly hasn't "Happened", nor is it likely to.
You say "It's Happened"
Your original post said a number of ex-AN pilots were going to be promoted out of turn in return for a pay cut.
What "Happened" was that someone with previous management experience has been utilised in a non- line flying role, entirely in keeping with QFs agreements with the AIPA.
Your original contention was outrageous, but clearly hasn't "Happened", nor is it likely to.
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Wiz,
It is a flying role. As the tech pilot his job is to deliver the aircraft. How he does that from the RHS with no tech experience is anyones guess.
I couldnt give a fcuk how much management experience this joker had with Ansett, the fact is he had been promoted 800 numbers out of seniority to do a job that a number of experienced qualified captains could do.
I have heard this afternoon that he is a 'mate' of TJ's and this is why the appointment has occured - it has nothing to do with 'being the best man for the job'
That is the issue - if you can't see it and you are a QF pilot than frankly you are a bloody idiot.
It is a flying role. As the tech pilot his job is to deliver the aircraft. How he does that from the RHS with no tech experience is anyones guess.
I couldnt give a fcuk how much management experience this joker had with Ansett, the fact is he had been promoted 800 numbers out of seniority to do a job that a number of experienced qualified captains could do.
I have heard this afternoon that he is a 'mate' of TJ's and this is why the appointment has occured - it has nothing to do with 'being the best man for the job'
That is the issue - if you can't see it and you are a QF pilot than frankly you are a bloody idiot.
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Gnadenburger,
Actually the A320 manuals used in the final stages of the Ansett op were pretty much Airbus.
Much better than the crap used where I am now or the garbage pushed by some other Airbus operators.
Fartsock.
“It is a flying role. As the tech pilot his job is to deliver the aircraft. How he does that from the RHS with no tech experience is anyones guess.”
No tech experience!! He has about 6000 hours of airbus time – it is the same endorsement. Any QF pilots got more than couple hundred hours.
Good to see teamwork is alive and well at Qantas. The company does the right thing (with AIPA’s ok) by promoting an experienced pilot to help with the introduction of a new type (we are talking about one person) and the troops are up in arms.
Actually the A320 manuals used in the final stages of the Ansett op were pretty much Airbus.
Much better than the crap used where I am now or the garbage pushed by some other Airbus operators.
Fartsock.
“It is a flying role. As the tech pilot his job is to deliver the aircraft. How he does that from the RHS with no tech experience is anyones guess.”
No tech experience!! He has about 6000 hours of airbus time – it is the same endorsement. Any QF pilots got more than couple hundred hours.
Good to see teamwork is alive and well at Qantas. The company does the right thing (with AIPA’s ok) by promoting an experienced pilot to help with the introduction of a new type (we are talking about one person) and the troops are up in arms.
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Exactly right FE
The 320 is a CCQ course to the 330 or 340 - sounds to me as if some people have a bee stuck up their A@#.
Get off your high horses and do some extra study and gain some extra qualifications and those that are offended won't have time to bleat on this web as much.
The guy has the experience and the background to back it up - get over it.
Time to duck out of the firing line and have another beer or 3.
The 320 is a CCQ course to the 330 or 340 - sounds to me as if some people have a bee stuck up their A@#.
Get off your high horses and do some extra study and gain some extra qualifications and those that are offended won't have time to bleat on this web as much.
The guy has the experience and the background to back it up - get over it.
Time to duck out of the firing line and have another beer or 3.
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I totaly agree with the last post, apart from being a bit of a bum licker, he would be perfect for the job. he has good cred with Airbus and knows all the Airbus Technical managers in France.He knows the A320, A330 backwards.
You tools would be lucky to have snapped him up. Qantas has already knocked back some of the best, don't muck this one up either.
You tools would be lucky to have snapped him up. Qantas has already knocked back some of the best, don't muck this one up either.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
we are talking about one person
The seniority system in QANTAS has been a long established and abided by agreement - until now. As it was with Ansett, East-West, Australian (TAA), and IPEC until 1989, when the then companies also decided to dispose of the seniority system.
For whatever reason, the seniority system is seen as an apparent threat to today`s management, whereas past management were able to work with it effectively, and profitably.
Yes, this latest promotion - from the bottom - DOES have an adverse effect on all of the 800 pilots ahead of The Lawn Mower Man, in threatening their promotional prospects, their salaries, and their job security.
There is an ISSUE - a PRINCIPLE - under threat here, and not surprisingly by the same people who helped destroy the careers of 1640 other Australian pilots!
Add to this the loss of routes to Australian and Jet Connect...loss of QF mainline flying that ALSO impacts on command prospects in the shorter term, and salary & conditions in the longer, and one has to wonder that if NOW is not the time for AIPA to take some form of action, then when EVER will be!!
Much like Japanese airlines starting low cost subsiduries and cutting their own pilots wages by getting in cheap foreign DE Captains..
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Tired out more drivel from Kaptin on self-percieved principals....
He would be one of the very first back in Oz snapping a good opportunity if there was one available to him. Instead he's condemmed to clutching at the D&G pprune forum for homesickness... 
On the other hand, I really don't see how hiring any ex-Ansett management is a smart move. The company drove themselves out of business, even from a very comfortable market position (in anybody's languague)...
I would be extremely wary of ex-Ansett technical apptitude seeing they modified 767s for a flight engineer..
Can only guess what they were doing with A320s....
He would be one of the very first back in Oz snapping a good opportunity if there was one available to him. Instead he's condemmed to clutching at the D&G pprune forum for homesickness... On the other hand, I really don't see how hiring any ex-Ansett management is a smart move. The company drove themselves out of business, even from a very comfortable market position (in anybody's languague)... I would be extremely wary of ex-Ansett technical apptitude seeing they modified 767s for a flight engineer.. Can only guess what they were doing with A320s....
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From my understanding the indervidual has been appointed a management position, and that he will remain as a second officer, only that he will be the only SO on the A330. No promotion out of the ranks. No reason why the tech pilot can't be an SO if he is the best man for the job.
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I would be extremely wary of ex-Ansett technical apptitude seeing they modified 767s for a flight engineer..
It was not Ansett's choice to have the FE station in the 767s, the union played a big part in this. In the end Ansett had them removed as soon as they were permitted to do so.
he will be the only SO on the A330.
Cheers
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I may be wrong, but is there not usually a provision in seniority systems for people who have been "jumped" to be paid at the higher rate until a position at the higher rank is available?
I'm not familiar with the QF system.
I'm not familiar with the QF system.
Fat Eric & Nose Wheel
Two gents with either an Ansett flight management association or were smiled upon favourably by Trevor's Team.
" Actually the A320 manuals used in the final stages of the Ansett op were pretty much Airbus".
Let us consider that Ansett was an A320 launch customer. Impressive stuff but Ansett lacked the management expertise to be an evolved operator.
The initial manuals were Ansett versions. Complicated and full of holes. The DME arrival procedure was done the same way as Granddad did in ANA DC3s; but further complicated by the hybird manuals with some Airbus calls. It was verbally impossible to give the required calls on DME approach. One of hundreds of holes.
So they had those antiquated manuals until a half caste Ansett/Airbus set was introduced. The road to FCOM.
Finally, within days of the collapse, we received full FCOM. Aswell as a terse phone call from a management pilot to ensure we understood the total change in SOPS -virtually overnight . What a ridiculous expectation and considering the stress on crews at the time irresponsible. Nobody jeopardised their jobs so all nodded appropriately.
Post 89 Ansett Flight Management failed to successfully introduce a new aircraft type. The 747 disaster was partly due the confusion of crews due unclear manuals. We were lucky on the 320 because the experience levels were high, which made flexibility and adjustment easier.
The management was purged and Team TJ came onboard. Again Ansett Flt management failed. The CRJ fiasco!
What's the point?
Great to see exAN Flt Management snapped up and re-employed. Their managerial experience, who needs it?
Two gents with either an Ansett flight management association or were smiled upon favourably by Trevor's Team.
" Actually the A320 manuals used in the final stages of the Ansett op were pretty much Airbus".
Let us consider that Ansett was an A320 launch customer. Impressive stuff but Ansett lacked the management expertise to be an evolved operator.
The initial manuals were Ansett versions. Complicated and full of holes. The DME arrival procedure was done the same way as Granddad did in ANA DC3s; but further complicated by the hybird manuals with some Airbus calls. It was verbally impossible to give the required calls on DME approach. One of hundreds of holes.
So they had those antiquated manuals until a half caste Ansett/Airbus set was introduced. The road to FCOM.
Finally, within days of the collapse, we received full FCOM. Aswell as a terse phone call from a management pilot to ensure we understood the total change in SOPS -virtually overnight . What a ridiculous expectation and considering the stress on crews at the time irresponsible. Nobody jeopardised their jobs so all nodded appropriately.
Post 89 Ansett Flight Management failed to successfully introduce a new aircraft type. The 747 disaster was partly due the confusion of crews due unclear manuals. We were lucky on the 320 because the experience levels were high, which made flexibility and adjustment easier.
The management was purged and Team TJ came onboard. Again Ansett Flt management failed. The CRJ fiasco!
What's the point?
Great to see exAN Flt Management snapped up and re-employed. Their managerial experience, who needs it?
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 10th Jul 2003 at 17:52.