Virgin vexed as Air Pacific upgrades
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Virgin vexed as Air Pacific upgrades
"The Australian"
Virgin vexed as Air Pacific upgrades
By Steve Creedy
June 27, 2003
VIRGIN Blue's proposed international services face a stiff fight to wrest market share from Air Pacific as the Fiji-based airline upgrades its fleet and expands its services.
Air Pacific yesterday took delivery of a second leased Boeing 747-400 from Singapore Airlines and predicts passenger numbers will grow 14 per cent in 2003-04.
Chief executive John Campbell would not be drawn on a price war with Virgin, but said the airline would aggressively protect its market share.
"We've got no intention of walking away from what we've worked fairly hard to build up," he said.
Mr Campbell said Air Pacific was aware of the low-cost carrier's application for capacity, as well as moves to get twin-engine operation clearance and international licensing.
He said Virgin's capacity application indicated the low-cost carrier was looking at daily 737-800 operations, using a similar configuration to its domestic operations.
He expected them to "cherry-pick" mature routes and predicted initial services to Fiji would be from Brisbane and/or Sydney.
"I think they'll be an extremely aggressive competitor and they'll certainly come at us with price," he said.
"I expect they'll come at us with reasonable frequency and they'll give us a pretty tough time for a market share.
"I'm not sure they will grow the market hugely. It's a reasonably mature market already, so we think it'll probably be a market share battle, rather than us keeping what we've got and Virgin adding another layer on top."
Yesterday's 747-400 delivery is part of a long-term strategy by Air Pacific, which is 46 per cent owned by Qantas, to boost its wide body fleet.
After a disastrous year following the Fiji coup, the airline's financial performance is back on track with its 2002-03 pre-tax profit up 160 per cent to $F25.14 million ($20.2 million) on a 14.2 per cent rise in revenue to $F407 million.
It had already boosted its fleet with the addition of three next-generation 737s and a Boeing 767-300ER. The two ex-Ansett International 747s, fresh from a major overhaul and on five-year leases from Singapore with options to extend, were something of a windfall. Ansett had reconfigured them in a hard-to-lease two-class configuration with a generous business class seat pitch, and both classes had been fitted with personal video screens.
The first of the new aircraft is already delivering significant efficiency gains over its 747-200 predecessors, which were payload-constricted in typical Nadi take-off conditions: a 5-knot tail wind and 30C night temperature.
Mr Campbell said the 400s could normally take off with almost a full payload of passengers and freight, and a planned 400m runway extension would lift all restrictions.
Fuel efficiency on Sydney services had been about 13 per cent better than the older 747-200s, and the airline expected even better figures on US services.
Mr Campbell said the airline expected to be flying daily to the US in 2007-08 and anticipated further expansion in Australia, with Sydney eventually supporting double daily flights.
The airline was also looking at eventually flying daily 300-seater services to Melbourne, Auckland and Brisbane.
It has plans to acquire four A330-300s between 2005 and 2011, although it has yet to sign a purchase agreement, and Singapore is lobbying enthusiastically in favour of leased Boeing 777s.
"We've not signed a purchase agreement and in today's climate we serve our interest best in keeping a lot of tension on the process," Mr Campbell said.
"We're not in negotiations with SQ to lease 777s at the moment. They're promoting the idea to us."
Steve Creedy flew to Nadi courtesy of Air Pacific and Boeing.
==========================================
Virgin vexed as Air Pacific upgrades
By Steve Creedy
June 27, 2003
VIRGIN Blue's proposed international services face a stiff fight to wrest market share from Air Pacific as the Fiji-based airline upgrades its fleet and expands its services.
Air Pacific yesterday took delivery of a second leased Boeing 747-400 from Singapore Airlines and predicts passenger numbers will grow 14 per cent in 2003-04.
Chief executive John Campbell would not be drawn on a price war with Virgin, but said the airline would aggressively protect its market share.
"We've got no intention of walking away from what we've worked fairly hard to build up," he said.
Mr Campbell said Air Pacific was aware of the low-cost carrier's application for capacity, as well as moves to get twin-engine operation clearance and international licensing.
He said Virgin's capacity application indicated the low-cost carrier was looking at daily 737-800 operations, using a similar configuration to its domestic operations.
He expected them to "cherry-pick" mature routes and predicted initial services to Fiji would be from Brisbane and/or Sydney.
"I think they'll be an extremely aggressive competitor and they'll certainly come at us with price," he said.
"I expect they'll come at us with reasonable frequency and they'll give us a pretty tough time for a market share.
"I'm not sure they will grow the market hugely. It's a reasonably mature market already, so we think it'll probably be a market share battle, rather than us keeping what we've got and Virgin adding another layer on top."
Yesterday's 747-400 delivery is part of a long-term strategy by Air Pacific, which is 46 per cent owned by Qantas, to boost its wide body fleet.
After a disastrous year following the Fiji coup, the airline's financial performance is back on track with its 2002-03 pre-tax profit up 160 per cent to $F25.14 million ($20.2 million) on a 14.2 per cent rise in revenue to $F407 million.
It had already boosted its fleet with the addition of three next-generation 737s and a Boeing 767-300ER. The two ex-Ansett International 747s, fresh from a major overhaul and on five-year leases from Singapore with options to extend, were something of a windfall. Ansett had reconfigured them in a hard-to-lease two-class configuration with a generous business class seat pitch, and both classes had been fitted with personal video screens.
The first of the new aircraft is already delivering significant efficiency gains over its 747-200 predecessors, which were payload-constricted in typical Nadi take-off conditions: a 5-knot tail wind and 30C night temperature.
Mr Campbell said the 400s could normally take off with almost a full payload of passengers and freight, and a planned 400m runway extension would lift all restrictions.
Fuel efficiency on Sydney services had been about 13 per cent better than the older 747-200s, and the airline expected even better figures on US services.
Mr Campbell said the airline expected to be flying daily to the US in 2007-08 and anticipated further expansion in Australia, with Sydney eventually supporting double daily flights.
The airline was also looking at eventually flying daily 300-seater services to Melbourne, Auckland and Brisbane.
It has plans to acquire four A330-300s between 2005 and 2011, although it has yet to sign a purchase agreement, and Singapore is lobbying enthusiastically in favour of leased Boeing 777s.
"We've not signed a purchase agreement and in today's climate we serve our interest best in keeping a lot of tension on the process," Mr Campbell said.
"We're not in negotiations with SQ to lease 777s at the moment. They're promoting the idea to us."
Steve Creedy flew to Nadi courtesy of Air Pacific and Boeing.
==========================================
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Get off your high horse Longhaul. DJ's grip in Australia isn't so small, (one third of the domestic market and GROWING). Are you aware of the pay and conditions at Air Pac & Poly ? Cos if you were you wouldn't be spouting the dribble you are about the DJ drivers being forced into working for such a pittance.
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Well said bugsmasher, sounds like ilovelonghaul has spent too many hours at high altitude staring into the abis. Ilovelonghaual, i have to pose a question to you which bugsmasher has also mentioned, who owns jetconnect and a percentage of one of these NATIONALY owned Pacific companies and hopefully soon our KIWI friends which also has a Freedom life line. So its OK for some airlines to buy into others or improach on their turf yet its not OK for others. Start educating yourself whilst your on these longhaul flights by reading the Fin Review ($2.50 at your local news agency) or try the BRW, and then make some educated statements about cost structures and compositions of companies in regards to competition and award structures. Sounds like your starting to worry about someting, I wonder if its your ego or your pay packet.
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Unfortunately Bugsmasha,
Virgin pilots are working for a lot less than they could or should be earning!
In Australian industry terms, the pay and conditions at VB for pilots are second rate. Your willingness to sell your talents and qualifications for peanuts is less than admirable but it is your right none the less.
There is something to be said about the personal satisfaction that one gains when he or she is remunerated in a way that recognises the skills required for the job and acknowledges the valuable contribution that an airline pilot makes to any airline.
Executives will often point out that the excellent pay and conditions that they enjoy are directly linked to their performance.
I see no valid reason why the same can't be said for professional pilots.
Obviously Bugsmasha, you do. Care to enlighten us?
Virgin pilots are working for a lot less than they could or should be earning!
In Australian industry terms, the pay and conditions at VB for pilots are second rate. Your willingness to sell your talents and qualifications for peanuts is less than admirable but it is your right none the less.
There is something to be said about the personal satisfaction that one gains when he or she is remunerated in a way that recognises the skills required for the job and acknowledges the valuable contribution that an airline pilot makes to any airline.
Executives will often point out that the excellent pay and conditions that they enjoy are directly linked to their performance.
I see no valid reason why the same can't be said for professional pilots.
Obviously Bugsmasha, you do. Care to enlighten us?
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ISN'T A PILOT JUST ONE PART OF THE AIRLINE?
THERE ARE A HELL OF ALOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WHOM ARE INVOLVED LONG BEFORE A PUNTER GETS ON A PLANE THEY ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE PILOT.
YES THE PILOT FLIES THE PLANE THAT GETS THEM THERE BUT IF THEY ARE MUCKED AROUND ON THE PHONE TO RESERVATIONS OR AT CHECKIN OR THE BAGS DONT ARRIVE THEN YOU LOSE THE CLIENT TO SOMEONE ELSE.
SO I THINK THAT EVERYONE IN THE COMPANY IS JUST AS IMPORTANT.
DONT GET ME WRONG YOU SHOULD BE REMUNERATED FOR WHAT YOU HAVE TRAINED FOR BUT EVERYONE PLAYS THERE PART.
THERE ARE A HELL OF ALOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WHOM ARE INVOLVED LONG BEFORE A PUNTER GETS ON A PLANE THEY ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE PILOT.
YES THE PILOT FLIES THE PLANE THAT GETS THEM THERE BUT IF THEY ARE MUCKED AROUND ON THE PHONE TO RESERVATIONS OR AT CHECKIN OR THE BAGS DONT ARRIVE THEN YOU LOSE THE CLIENT TO SOMEONE ELSE.
SO I THINK THAT EVERYONE IN THE COMPANY IS JUST AS IMPORTANT.
DONT GET ME WRONG YOU SHOULD BE REMUNERATED FOR WHAT YOU HAVE TRAINED FOR BUT EVERYONE PLAYS THERE PART.
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cnsnz,
Mate I hate to sound elitist but pilots and engineers for that matter, by the very nature of their job description are required to meet certain standards regularly and with no exceptions.
The skills and qualifications that they need are not of their making but are mandated by the very demanding and complex nature of the job at hand.
If a baggage handler stuffs up you might not get your bags on time. If a reservations clerk stuffs up it might make for a bad day.
If a pilot stuffs up you can find yourself very dead very quickly!
Care to put a price on that?
Mate I hate to sound elitist but pilots and engineers for that matter, by the very nature of their job description are required to meet certain standards regularly and with no exceptions.
The skills and qualifications that they need are not of their making but are mandated by the very demanding and complex nature of the job at hand.
If a baggage handler stuffs up you might not get your bags on time. If a reservations clerk stuffs up it might make for a bad day.
If a pilot stuffs up you can find yourself very dead very quickly!
Care to put a price on that?
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As I stated Dont get me wrong you deserve to get remunerated for the job you do and have trained for .
All I was saying is that the flight crew are not the only cog in the airline wheel,there are alot of other staff who are paid not that well by some companies and yet they have as much input into the product that passengers are paying for and they to deserve to be aknowledged and compensated like everyone else.
All I was saying is that the flight crew are not the only cog in the airline wheel,there are alot of other staff who are paid not that well by some companies and yet they have as much input into the product that passengers are paying for and they to deserve to be aknowledged and compensated like everyone else.
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What about Load Controllers and Dangerous Goods Dispatchers? Two just off the top of my head. I am aware too of some bag slingers who 'saved the day' with detecting some dangerous goods that a Pax had in their bag. The fact that these guys were switched on and spoke up when they noticed something odd saved an AN aeroplane. Same has probably happend around the world countless times before. I hold the view that what makes an airline safe is its 'system' and as such is comprised of many individual parts..
PS There is another thread regarding pay and condition/state of the industry (see Jetconnect). Just because someone has taken a job at a discount carrier is no indication of their personal abilities, or lack thereof. I have met thoroghly professional who will never get out of GA and I know some heavy jet pilots (incl. at Qantas) who cant get into an aeroplane without someone holding their hand. To suggest that ones ability can be measured by the size of a pay packet is a F#$%^& joke. Anyone who asserts this sort of rubbish needs to grow up. I also know many able people who were knocked back by QF who have performed very well in other positions and are now at Virgin Blue and Air Pacific. If you want to find people to blame over "pay and conditions", look no further than the architects of globalisation. I heard Merpati pilots make $AÙS 6-12K.To iloveLong haul and others, If you feel so strongly about people flying jets for lower pay, why dont you take it upon yourself to secure for such poeple high paid positions at YOUR company.
PS There is another thread regarding pay and condition/state of the industry (see Jetconnect). Just because someone has taken a job at a discount carrier is no indication of their personal abilities, or lack thereof. I have met thoroghly professional who will never get out of GA and I know some heavy jet pilots (incl. at Qantas) who cant get into an aeroplane without someone holding their hand. To suggest that ones ability can be measured by the size of a pay packet is a F#$%^& joke. Anyone who asserts this sort of rubbish needs to grow up. I also know many able people who were knocked back by QF who have performed very well in other positions and are now at Virgin Blue and Air Pacific. If you want to find people to blame over "pay and conditions", look no further than the architects of globalisation. I heard Merpati pilots make $AÙS 6-12K.To iloveLong haul and others, If you feel so strongly about people flying jets for lower pay, why dont you take it upon yourself to secure for such poeple high paid positions at YOUR company.
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Oh PLEASE.....pass me a bucket
For some people getting out of GA for example and getting into DJ, the money is not peanuts - considering what GA conditions and equipment are like.
So, for many, it's a substantial upgrade, if not 'major airline' riches.
If the high priests of Qantas weren't so elitist and vehemently protecting the brotherhood, maybe things would be different.
Plenty of talented, experienced and extremely capable aviators never made it through stage 1.
Plenty crap ones have slipped by.
So, it's easy to speak of not working for peanuts when you are in the ivory towers looking down on the unwashed masses, trying to better themselves.
Also, business is business. If airline management can kill a competitor, they usually do - without remorse and without mercy.
The state of the airline industry is not the responsibility of the pilots. There is simply nothing else left to cut back on except labour costs.
Flight crews do their job, as expected, don'y kill anyone or wreck the equipment (most of the time) and get no bonus for this. Management get to take all the trimmings and manage to run an organisation into the ground, more often than not get a bonus for doing their job, or paying themselves bonuses or protecting pension payouts when it looks like it's all gone pear shaped, and still manage to come out the other end smelling of roses and into some other highly paid management position.
Who benefits? The punter. And what do they do? When one mob falls over, they simpky go to the next cheapest mob still standing, that (probably) won't fly them into the ground.
So, for many, it's a substantial upgrade, if not 'major airline' riches.
If the high priests of Qantas weren't so elitist and vehemently protecting the brotherhood, maybe things would be different.
Plenty of talented, experienced and extremely capable aviators never made it through stage 1.
Plenty crap ones have slipped by.
So, it's easy to speak of not working for peanuts when you are in the ivory towers looking down on the unwashed masses, trying to better themselves.
Also, business is business. If airline management can kill a competitor, they usually do - without remorse and without mercy.
The state of the airline industry is not the responsibility of the pilots. There is simply nothing else left to cut back on except labour costs.
Flight crews do their job, as expected, don'y kill anyone or wreck the equipment (most of the time) and get no bonus for this. Management get to take all the trimmings and manage to run an organisation into the ground, more often than not get a bonus for doing their job, or paying themselves bonuses or protecting pension payouts when it looks like it's all gone pear shaped, and still manage to come out the other end smelling of roses and into some other highly paid management position.
Who benefits? The punter. And what do they do? When one mob falls over, they simpky go to the next cheapest mob still standing, that (probably) won't fly them into the ground.
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Blueloo
Maybe Qantas wasn't started by a reservations worker or a salesperson.But if it wasn't for them or the bagage handlers, checkin staff,load controlers,dispatchers they wouldn't be flying now that is unless the flight crews are going to do all these jobs as well as flying the planes.
Maybe Qantas wasn't started by a reservations worker or a salesperson.But if it wasn't for them or the bagage handlers, checkin staff,load controlers,dispatchers they wouldn't be flying now that is unless the flight crews are going to do all these jobs as well as flying the planes.
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Virgin vexed as Air Pacific upgrades
Perhaps the headline in the Oz should have been worded
"Virgin finds another reason to bleat and get some free publicity"
OK bluloo, what were the occupations of those who started Q.A.N.T.A.S.
and
The original 'slut' was a driver of hot air
ding
"Virgin finds another reason to bleat and get some free publicity"
OK bluloo, what were the occupations of those who started Q.A.N.T.A.S.
and
The original 'slut' was a driver of hot air
ding
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Ralph,
You need to smoke a little less of your bong mate and get with the programme.
If you think that a baggage handler is worth as much as a highly trained pro then all I can say is that you're smoking some pretty serious ****!
I mean if we go down your path of logic then the next time some labourer comes up with an idea to save a company some money we better run of to the IRC in a bloody hurry so that we can secure his executive salary......Right?
In case you didn't know it the safety of an aircraft and its trusting souls is directly dependant on the skills and expertise of the pilots that manipulate its controls daily. Decisions that affect the disposition of an aircraft while it is travelling at 500kts rest with its pilots. The buck stops at the fingertips of the pilot in command.
You say that what makes an airline safe is its"system" thats comprised of many individual parts. True!
What you fail to recognise though Ralph is that some parts simply by virtue of their complexity demand higher skills and training and play a bigger role than others.
Take the windshield wipers off your car and potentially you are jeopardising your safety. Take the steering wheel away and you can kiss your arse goodbye!
Sure as smoking a bong can get you whacked!
You need to smoke a little less of your bong mate and get with the programme.
If you think that a baggage handler is worth as much as a highly trained pro then all I can say is that you're smoking some pretty serious ****!
I mean if we go down your path of logic then the next time some labourer comes up with an idea to save a company some money we better run of to the IRC in a bloody hurry so that we can secure his executive salary......Right?
In case you didn't know it the safety of an aircraft and its trusting souls is directly dependant on the skills and expertise of the pilots that manipulate its controls daily. Decisions that affect the disposition of an aircraft while it is travelling at 500kts rest with its pilots. The buck stops at the fingertips of the pilot in command.
You say that what makes an airline safe is its"system" thats comprised of many individual parts. True!
What you fail to recognise though Ralph is that some parts simply by virtue of their complexity demand higher skills and training and play a bigger role than others.
Take the windshield wipers off your car and potentially you are jeopardising your safety. Take the steering wheel away and you can kiss your arse goodbye!
Sure as smoking a bong can get you whacked!
The Reverend
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I guess it must be very easy to knock DJ pilots for lowering standards by accepting lower pay and conditions than the ones you are presently enjoying. You are very lucky and I'm certain that the DJ pilots would love to be in your shoes if they had the opportunity to do so. So what would you have them do? Refuse a lower paid offer of a flying job and drive a truck or a taxi instead? Oh yes, that would show Virgin wouldn't it? Get real fellows, Virgin is here to stay, low pay or not.
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huanhunglo/Ilovelonghaul
Forgive me I must have missed something I didn't realise that the regulating authorities have different standards for pilots based on their pay packets?
I thought they were assessed based on the standards set by the governing authorities such as CASA CAA etc.
You underpaid guys must be glad that you do not have to be as qualified and have the same abilities as the big money earners but are still allowed to fly.
Forgive me I must have missed something I didn't realise that the regulating authorities have different standards for pilots based on their pay packets?
I thought they were assessed based on the standards set by the governing authorities such as CASA CAA etc.
You underpaid guys must be glad that you do not have to be as qualified and have the same abilities as the big money earners but are still allowed to fly.
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Hot dog and cnsnz,
I am not saying that Virgin pilots are lowering standards by accepting lousy pay and conditions. I am sure that they are just as capable as any one else in the business.
Its just that by accepting such lousy conditions relatively speaking, they are inadvertantly creating a precedent that whils't I doubt will affect me, is bound to destroy the worth of this career for the many that follow.
Its sad really!
I am not saying that Virgin pilots are lowering standards by accepting lousy pay and conditions. I am sure that they are just as capable as any one else in the business.
Its just that by accepting such lousy conditions relatively speaking, they are inadvertantly creating a precedent that whils't I doubt will affect me, is bound to destroy the worth of this career for the many that follow.
Its sad really!
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cnsnz
What you say is correct. Just another cog in a very big machine.
But - how much cash up front did the LAME, cabin crew, cleaner, administrator, manager et al have to fork out to get into their trade?
How many of them had to get into the top X percent or so of their respective trades to be considered for a position?
How many of them stuck their necks out for years for dodgey employers with dodgey equipment and 5hit pay to get to the point where they can even apply for such positions?
How many of them had to go bush or emigrate to get their first jobs?
Do not forget, cnsnz, there are many operations where the pilot IS the baggage handler, check in staff, load controller, despatcher and a lot more one cannot mention due to shall we say, legal fine points.
Yes, everyone plays their part.
If you are just winding us up fair enough.
If not, I suggest you forget comparing highly experienced aircrew with ticketing clerks and surf somewhere else.
What you say is correct. Just another cog in a very big machine.
But - how much cash up front did the LAME, cabin crew, cleaner, administrator, manager et al have to fork out to get into their trade?
How many of them had to get into the top X percent or so of their respective trades to be considered for a position?
How many of them stuck their necks out for years for dodgey employers with dodgey equipment and 5hit pay to get to the point where they can even apply for such positions?
How many of them had to go bush or emigrate to get their first jobs?
Do not forget, cnsnz, there are many operations where the pilot IS the baggage handler, check in staff, load controller, despatcher and a lot more one cannot mention due to shall we say, legal fine points.
Yes, everyone plays their part.
If you are just winding us up
fair enough.If not, I suggest you forget comparing highly experienced aircrew with ticketing clerks and surf somewhere else.
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I thought the point of the article was that the entrenched players were dumping capacity in order to stave off competition (a tried and true QF etc. tactic).
No comment on that?
No comment on that?
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CURRAWONG
Yes some tongue in cheek comments.
Whilst I am not a pilot I have alot of friends who are and I do realise and have seen all the effort that they have put in to get a career in the aviation industry.
What does annoy me though sometimes is to read some pilots replies in here that imply that some are far superior pilots to others by the amounts they earn and forget that some of the guys that have accepted less conditions have had to do so through no fault of there own , and they are now making it worse for everyone else.I to have lost jobs through airlines going bust three times in fact and I earn less now where I am than I did 10 yrs ago but this is the nature of the industry and sometimes you have to accept what you can until something better comes along.
Which hopefully is sooner rather than later.
regards
cnsnz
Yes some tongue in cheek comments.
Whilst I am not a pilot I have alot of friends who are and I do realise and have seen all the effort that they have put in to get a career in the aviation industry.
What does annoy me though sometimes is to read some pilots replies in here that imply that some are far superior pilots to others by the amounts they earn and forget that some of the guys that have accepted less conditions have had to do so through no fault of there own , and they are now making it worse for everyone else.I to have lost jobs through airlines going bust three times in fact and I earn less now where I am than I did 10 yrs ago but this is the nature of the industry and sometimes you have to accept what you can until something better comes along.
Which hopefully is sooner rather than later.
regards
cnsnz