I said gear up, not flaps!
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I said gear up, not flaps!
It seems a 717 departed Melbourne recently and after take off the pnf promptly retracted the flaps instead of the gear.
Was anyone there to witness what would have been some very anxious moments for all concerned?
Was anyone there to witness what would have been some very anxious moments for all concerned?
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Not the first time and certainly won't be the last.
The few incidents of which I am aware (on other aircraft) involved inexperienced FOs under initial training .. which is why the average training captain not only calls the control selection, but watches his/her protege like a hawk ... to catch just this sort of error under high workload.
I presume that the captain on this occasion did precisely the same thing ? .. and that the event was more interesting than safety-reduced alarming ?
The few incidents of which I am aware (on other aircraft) involved inexperienced FOs under initial training .. which is why the average training captain not only calls the control selection, but watches his/her protege like a hawk ... to catch just this sort of error under high workload.
I presume that the captain on this occasion did precisely the same thing ? .. and that the event was more interesting than safety-reduced alarming ?
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Yep have heard the same from a person onboard the aircraft at the time. Apparently the "intelligent" FO somehow retracted flaps instead of gear, and a fair sink entaled. Don't know the truth, but also a few stall warnings went off as the captain got 'er flying again.
But this is a rumor network afterall
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.. which is why old (but not bold) captains always are alert for screw ups by their F/O regardless of experience (and why the reverse should also apply - doesn't really matter who made the mistake if the outcome is fatal ....) ... one needs to keep in mind that, after the enquiry, the F/O gets shot with a .22, while the Captain gets the field gun shell ...
The Reverend
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Sounds like the old tale of BA Atlantic Baron remarking to junior F/O with miserable expression during take off roll, "cheer up", when the F/O promtly retracted the gear.
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Now there is only one thing missing from this thread compared to the cairns " incident "..................all the invective from the QF pilots " you nearly ruined my airline ..........", " you were almost QF tails first hull loss", oh and my favourite which started something like " your short fat underpowered heap of crap, blah, blah, blah "
So where is it now? oh, thats right, one word about this and we might mention..................Thailand
So where is it now? oh, thats right, one word about this and we might mention..................Thailand
Nunc est bibendum
Sorry to spoil a good 'story' IWS but not once did I ever hear a QF crew say things along those lines. Most often the commentary that I heard was along the lines of 'there but for the Grace of God go I...'
Still, should never miss an opportunity to stick it to those arrogant, infallible, superhuman QF drivers should we!
Still, should never miss an opportunity to stick it to those arrogant, infallible, superhuman QF drivers should we!
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Before this goes right off the rails, my theory on why retracting the flaps prematurely should not be a big deal, if common sense airmanship follows the initial stuff-up. Consider any typical modern transport aircraft flaps and where the most useful lift kicks in, as opposed to drag. Why is it that the flaps retract quite quickly initially? (to get rid of drag in a hurry if it is all going pear-shaped as in engine failure). Then, at the final stages, why do they run very slowly? (so as not to dump lift and make the houses bigger again). All this assumes that the pilot applies sensible pitch attitudes and dosn't blindly fly V2 plus 10 or whatever. For a fixed and typical takeoff pitch attitude, both the 146 and 737 accelerate quickly enough, all engines operating, as the flaps run in as to make stalling most unlikely. Not a recommended procedure on a daily basis, but hardly killer stuff.
Stuff-ups will happen and no amount of CRM, or sim, or beatings, will prevent us mere mortals from making them - it's how crews recognise and correct their mistakes that really counts. The CNS incident was very nearly an accident for a lot of reasons. The sad thing is that a more enlightened preventative process did not evolve from it.
Stuff-ups will happen and no amount of CRM, or sim, or beatings, will prevent us mere mortals from making them - it's how crews recognise and correct their mistakes that really counts. The CNS incident was very nearly an accident for a lot of reasons. The sad thing is that a more enlightened preventative process did not evolve from it.
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Yeh, no worries Keg, I just made it all up.
Sorry all, must have been that last batch of mushrooms making me halucinate.
Of course, I can't prove Keg wrong because the archives don't go back that far and I can't post the hard copy I have of that thread.
Any current or ex. NJS drivers care to back me up here ?
I am afraid Keg, that the " there but for the grace of god go I " posts were far outweighed by the " your cheap little airline nearly ruined QFs reputation " posts. I can't help but find it absolutely incredible the reaction to this incident compared to the NJS one.
PS. sorry about your paranoia, you can get help if you really want to, don't know what you can do about the memory loss though.
Sorry all, must have been that last batch of mushrooms making me halucinate.
Of course, I can't prove Keg wrong because the archives don't go back that far and I can't post the hard copy I have of that thread.
Any current or ex. NJS drivers care to back me up here ?
I am afraid Keg, that the " there but for the grace of god go I " posts were far outweighed by the " your cheap little airline nearly ruined QFs reputation " posts. I can't help but find it absolutely incredible the reaction to this incident compared to the NJS one.
PS. sorry about your paranoia, you can get help if you really want to, don't know what you can do about the memory loss though.
Bottums Up
IWS
consider yourself backed up.
I can recall my first exposure to PPRuNe was about the time of said incident in CS, and the usual PPRuNe vitriol and mudslinging at the time.
I was surpised to read that QF had a similar incident ex OOL in a 73 at around the same time, though it didn't get any exposure on these fora, that I know of.
IMO, all airlines have stuff ups. None is perfect, and none of us are perfect.
I can recall my first exposure to PPRuNe was about the time of said incident in CS, and the usual PPRuNe vitriol and mudslinging at the time.
I was surpised to read that QF had a similar incident ex OOL in a 73 at around the same time, though it didn't get any exposure on these fora, that I know of.
IMO, all airlines have stuff ups. None is perfect, and none of us are perfect.
Nunc est bibendum
OK lads, I'll take your word that it was written on here by someone then. I certainly don't recall reading it and tend to keep track of comments by those purporting to be QF drivers- especiallly when it is finger pointing type comment.
I stand by the fact that I don't ever recall it being 'talked' about (literallyl as opposed to on here) in the manner that you say. EVERY comment I heard about the incident back then was along my previous lines.
Still, nice to see that we're playing the ball and not the man on this one in the first instance!
I stand by the fact that I don't ever recall it being 'talked' about (literallyl as opposed to on here) in the manner that you say. EVERY comment I heard about the incident back then was along my previous lines.
Still, nice to see that we're playing the ball and not the man on this one in the first instance!
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Thanks Clarrie.
Keg, not really playing the man ( honest umpie, had my eyes on the ball ), but the vitriol that was directed toward NJS back then irked me a bit to sat the least.
At the risk of flogging a dead horse, you may be interested to know that I would'nt let my dog fly with that crew, it's human to make an error but its frigging unforgiveable to do nothing about it.
Apparently thats why we get the big bucks.
Not making any comment on this one though, as I have none of the facts.
Keg, not really playing the man ( honest umpie, had my eyes on the ball ), but the vitriol that was directed toward NJS back then irked me a bit to sat the least.
At the risk of flogging a dead horse, you may be interested to know that I would'nt let my dog fly with that crew, it's human to make an error but its frigging unforgiveable to do nothing about it.
Apparently thats why we get the big bucks.
Not making any comment on this one though, as I have none of the facts.
