SARS the "threat"
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Yawn.Insults from oblivion.Yawn.
"....sigh(exhale).."- the sound of me wasting my breath. I told you the world is full of pilots who know more than the manufacturers( and a virus spreading method and filtration expert too). Has anyone actually read the SARS advice. I state again that I barely know anything about it. That's why I do what the specialists advise. The notices say that the danger zone is if someone sneezes and you are I think within 3mts( dont have the notice with me at the moment) . Recirc fans or not wont make a difference in this case.
Oh and by the way, if filters cant keep viruses out then why do medical staff wear them or indeed go anywhere near a person infected with anything ??????????????????????????
Enuff sed.
"....sigh(exhale).."- the sound of me wasting my breath. I told you the world is full of pilots who know more than the manufacturers( and a virus spreading method and filtration expert too). Has anyone actually read the SARS advice. I state again that I barely know anything about it. That's why I do what the specialists advise. The notices say that the danger zone is if someone sneezes and you are I think within 3mts( dont have the notice with me at the moment) . Recirc fans or not wont make a difference in this case.
Oh and by the way, if filters cant keep viruses out then why do medical staff wear them or indeed go anywhere near a person infected with anything ??????????????????????????
Enuff sed.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Ooooooooops permFO
Sorry bout dat!!!
Unfortunately on the planning boards for a good while now.
Da Wally (ex TN) Known in TN as Wally da Whiskey Oscar Golf - is still there so trust nothing that comes out of Management.
Oh and I forgot to thank God for smiting da wally with alopecia.
TN WNY has never forgotten.
What in hell has happened to our precious industry.
Don't let the turkeys get you down.
Best all
EWL
Sorry bout dat!!!
Unfortunately on the planning boards for a good while now.
Da Wally (ex TN) Known in TN as Wally da Whiskey Oscar Golf - is still there so trust nothing that comes out of Management.
Oh and I forgot to thank God for smiting da wally with alopecia.
TN WNY has never forgotten.
What in hell has happened to our precious industry.
Don't let the turkeys get you down.
Best all
EWL
The Reverend
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EWL, you failed to tell what equipment you were flying in 3 years ago when you caught this lurgie, if you in fact caught it in flight. Was it in a Classic by any chance? If you are familiar with the modern ACS in the 400s or 777s, you must admit that great improvements have been made to the system, especially filtering. Recirc fans on or off, there is a complete change of cabin air within 2.5 to 3.0 minutes. If I had to sit next to an infected fellow traveller in an aircraft, a train or a bus, I certainly know which one I would prefer!
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Hot Dog
It was a QF 744.
Lightly loaded too. We were that crook that we didn't even hit the duty free booze on the way to immigration. Now THAT was a total tradgedy!!!
Best regards
EWL
It was a QF 744.
Lightly loaded too. We were that crook that we didn't even hit the duty free booze on the way to immigration. Now THAT was a total tradgedy!!!
Best regards
EWL
The Reverend
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It was a QF 744, lightly loaded too.
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As a perspective, 1 million people died from Malaria last year.How many died on NSW roads last year?Did it stop people getting in cars. More people will die of the common cold.Sure SARS is nasty,but lets get it into perspective and the media hype don't help!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Announced today - Saturday April 12 - 4 cases of SARS discovered in Japan.
But the Iraqi Minister of information has said not to worry about SARS, as it has as much chance of affecting citizens around the world as the "American infidels" have of entering Baghdad.
His statement is backed up by several posters on PPRuNe, who have stated that although the World health Organisation is concerned at the apparent rapid transmission of the virus, they are scaremongering.
But the Iraqi Minister of information has said not to worry about SARS, as it has as much chance of affecting citizens around the world as the "American infidels" have of entering Baghdad.
His statement is backed up by several posters on PPRuNe, who have stated that although the World health Organisation is concerned at the apparent rapid transmission of the virus, they are scaremongering.
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Borneo - you have hit the nail on the head.
500,000 cark it anually with the common flu - and what has SARS taken?? About 200. Tragic for loved ones, and it is a virulent bug, but shutting down the world is hardly the answer.
I question why we have seen such a gross over reaction to this bug.
Best all
EWL
500,000 cark it anually with the common flu - and what has SARS taken?? About 200. Tragic for loved ones, and it is a virulent bug, but shutting down the world is hardly the answer.
I question why we have seen such a gross over reaction to this bug.
Best all
EWL
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A very good question it is too EWL. I would suggest fear has driven this issue. Fear of the unknown ,even though the figures suggest that even if you do contract it you stand a very good chance of recovering from it. Statements like "4 SARS cases in Japan" just hilight the hysteria.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"I question why we have seen such a gross over reaction to this bug.
Apparently because the mortality rate is 4-8 times more than that of other similar illnesses!
These are the first 4 cases that have been confirmed, and publically announced in Japan to indicate that the virus is not confined to Hong Kong, China, Singapore, Viet Nam, Canada, and the other countries so far announced.
Basically I would guess that it is warning people to take EXTRA precautions at this time, eg. wash your hands more frequently, be wary of hand to mouth/nose/eye contact when touching anything used by other people, and if YOU feel that you are suffering any of the symptoms - breathlessness, high fever, dry cough - consult a doctor asap.
It may seem to be "scaremongering", but if the media DIDN'T let us know about it, would that make them irresponsible for not helping to contain the spread?
Apparently because the mortality rate is 4-8 times more than that of other similar illnesses!
Statements like "4 SARS cases in Japan" just hilight the hysteria.
Basically I would guess that it is warning people to take EXTRA precautions at this time, eg. wash your hands more frequently, be wary of hand to mouth/nose/eye contact when touching anything used by other people, and if YOU feel that you are suffering any of the symptoms - breathlessness, high fever, dry cough - consult a doctor asap.
It may seem to be "scaremongering", but if the media DIDN'T let us know about it, would that make them irresponsible for not helping to contain the spread?
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"Business Week" Hong Kong
How SARS Is Strangling Hong Kong
The toll of the killer SARS pneumonia on Hong Kong continues to mount. For most of the past week, about 40 new cases a day have cropped up, double the rate of a week earlier. But the fear gripping Hong Kong as a result of SARS may be far more damaging than the disease itself.
For a city that thrives on trade, being quarantined from the rest of the world feels like being strangled. About one-third of the more than 500 flights that usually take off or land in Hong Kong on a typical day are being canceled. Those that are still running are largely empty. For a time, outbound flights were filled with expatriate families fleeing a city whose schools are shuttered. But even that traffic has dried up. Those who wanted to go have mostly left.
The impact of the virus hit me with a thud when I returned to Hong Kong from Beijing on Apr. 4. It was a Friday evening, normally a peak period for flight arrivals. But not a single person was waiting in the cavernous south wing of the immigration hall, manned by only a handful of forlorn immigration officers.
STAYING IN. Travel agents report that outbound bookings for the Easter holiday period are down an incredible 80%. But even those of us who might still dare to get on a plane find that many countries don't want us. Thailand is checking incoming arrivals. If one person on a plane is infected by SARS, everyone on the plane is subject to quarantine, according to travel agents here. Malaysia has suspended automatic visas. Singapore has told foreign workers visiting SARS-infected areas like Hong Kong that they face quarantine on their return.
Hong Kong's streets are eerily empty. The jostling, noisy crowds that characterize this fast-paced city have retreated in fear. For a city that depends on the service sector to generate 86% of its gross domestic product and is powered with hundreds of thousands of small businesses, this disease could be a real economic killer.
After all, restaurants and other shops that depend on cash flow to pay the rent aren't going to be able to keep going indefinitely. My son and I went to a restaurant for dinner on Apr. 10. It had seating for more than 50 people. We were the only diners.
PSYCH-OUT. I was here during the Asian currency crisis of 1997-98. People called it the Asia flu, but what's happening now is so different. During the currency crisis, events unfolded in slow motion. Sure, there were moments of panic. But they were limited to the financial markets.
This fear is in the streets. And never, at least in Hong Kong, has economic activity just stopped this quickly. Some commentators are saying it's the worst crisis since 1967, when a wave of bombings and deadly riots inspired by Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution swept the city.
The damage done by the SARS pneumonia is now above all psychological. Most infected people are health-care workers or others who have been in contact with another sick person. The disease is not increasing exponentially, like a typical influenza outbreak. And though the mortality rate is uncomfortably high for this sort of disease, it's mostly older people and those with a history of health problems who are dying.
CUNNING AND DANGEROUS. It would be wrong to say, as Franklin D. Roosevelt declared during the Great Depression, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. SARS really kills. Researchers still don't fully understand how it spreads, nor do they know how to cure it. They don't even know how long the incubation period is. No test can detect its presence. It isn't the plague, or even a killer pandemic of the sort that swept the world in 1918. But it is a cunning and dangerous microbe.
I'm afraid that Hong Kong, China, and perhaps much of the rest of the world are going to have to learn to live as best as possible can with this disease. How everyone adapts will go a long way toward determining what sort of future Hong Kong has as an economic hub.
However, here at the nexus of a mysterious disease outbreak and an urban jewel of world commerce in the 21st century, a frightening scene unfolds: As we Hong Kong residents try to take preventive measures against the disease, we're watching the slow strangulation of our city.
How SARS Is Strangling Hong Kong
The toll of the killer SARS pneumonia on Hong Kong continues to mount. For most of the past week, about 40 new cases a day have cropped up, double the rate of a week earlier. But the fear gripping Hong Kong as a result of SARS may be far more damaging than the disease itself.
For a city that thrives on trade, being quarantined from the rest of the world feels like being strangled. About one-third of the more than 500 flights that usually take off or land in Hong Kong on a typical day are being canceled. Those that are still running are largely empty. For a time, outbound flights were filled with expatriate families fleeing a city whose schools are shuttered. But even that traffic has dried up. Those who wanted to go have mostly left.
The impact of the virus hit me with a thud when I returned to Hong Kong from Beijing on Apr. 4. It was a Friday evening, normally a peak period for flight arrivals. But not a single person was waiting in the cavernous south wing of the immigration hall, manned by only a handful of forlorn immigration officers.
STAYING IN. Travel agents report that outbound bookings for the Easter holiday period are down an incredible 80%. But even those of us who might still dare to get on a plane find that many countries don't want us. Thailand is checking incoming arrivals. If one person on a plane is infected by SARS, everyone on the plane is subject to quarantine, according to travel agents here. Malaysia has suspended automatic visas. Singapore has told foreign workers visiting SARS-infected areas like Hong Kong that they face quarantine on their return.
Hong Kong's streets are eerily empty. The jostling, noisy crowds that characterize this fast-paced city have retreated in fear. For a city that depends on the service sector to generate 86% of its gross domestic product and is powered with hundreds of thousands of small businesses, this disease could be a real economic killer.
After all, restaurants and other shops that depend on cash flow to pay the rent aren't going to be able to keep going indefinitely. My son and I went to a restaurant for dinner on Apr. 10. It had seating for more than 50 people. We were the only diners.
PSYCH-OUT. I was here during the Asian currency crisis of 1997-98. People called it the Asia flu, but what's happening now is so different. During the currency crisis, events unfolded in slow motion. Sure, there were moments of panic. But they were limited to the financial markets.
This fear is in the streets. And never, at least in Hong Kong, has economic activity just stopped this quickly. Some commentators are saying it's the worst crisis since 1967, when a wave of bombings and deadly riots inspired by Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution swept the city.
The damage done by the SARS pneumonia is now above all psychological. Most infected people are health-care workers or others who have been in contact with another sick person. The disease is not increasing exponentially, like a typical influenza outbreak. And though the mortality rate is uncomfortably high for this sort of disease, it's mostly older people and those with a history of health problems who are dying.
CUNNING AND DANGEROUS. It would be wrong to say, as Franklin D. Roosevelt declared during the Great Depression, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. SARS really kills. Researchers still don't fully understand how it spreads, nor do they know how to cure it. They don't even know how long the incubation period is. No test can detect its presence. It isn't the plague, or even a killer pandemic of the sort that swept the world in 1918. But it is a cunning and dangerous microbe.
I'm afraid that Hong Kong, China, and perhaps much of the rest of the world are going to have to learn to live as best as possible can with this disease. How everyone adapts will go a long way toward determining what sort of future Hong Kong has as an economic hub.
However, here at the nexus of a mysterious disease outbreak and an urban jewel of world commerce in the 21st century, a frightening scene unfolds: As we Hong Kong residents try to take preventive measures against the disease, we're watching the slow strangulation of our city.
Grandpa Aerotart
A Doctor, who happens to be a old friend of my Uncle, was interviewed on a Sydney radio station today...he's a Virologist or whatever the specialist label is for this sort of bug.
He's simply dismayed at the level of panic caused by media and Govt alike over what is, essentially, nothing.
One statistic he used was 35000/annum die of Typical Flu in the US...think about that !!...it's nearly 100/day, every day, week in and week out, year after year.
What are we up to now...200 spread over Asia and North America in the last several months...even if it was 2000 is it worth the reaction being ellicited by frenzied Media bored with the war?
60 Minutes report last night drew direct comparisons with 1919 Flu pandemic and the Black Plague...suggesting 747s are the rats of the 21st century
They ask Doctors who have been working around the clock and who are exhausted leading questions get the sort of emotional answers which lead to panic, and do so with no thought other than to ratings.
What price freedom of the press?
40 million people died of Flu in Europe over something like 2 years just after WW1...that's 55555/day...in a period in history before anyone understood personal hygene and before antiviral drugs were invented.
Where's the comparison??
A few times every century a bug comes along and knocks off a chunk of the population...this, in the Doctors professional opinion, is not one of those.
Chuck
He's simply dismayed at the level of panic caused by media and Govt alike over what is, essentially, nothing.
One statistic he used was 35000/annum die of Typical Flu in the US...think about that !!...it's nearly 100/day, every day, week in and week out, year after year.
What are we up to now...200 spread over Asia and North America in the last several months...even if it was 2000 is it worth the reaction being ellicited by frenzied Media bored with the war?
60 Minutes report last night drew direct comparisons with 1919 Flu pandemic and the Black Plague...suggesting 747s are the rats of the 21st century
They ask Doctors who have been working around the clock and who are exhausted leading questions get the sort of emotional answers which lead to panic, and do so with no thought other than to ratings.
What price freedom of the press?
40 million people died of Flu in Europe over something like 2 years just after WW1...that's 55555/day...in a period in history before anyone understood personal hygene and before antiviral drugs were invented.
Where's the comparison??
A few times every century a bug comes along and knocks off a chunk of the population...this, in the Doctors professional opinion, is not one of those.
Chuck
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 14th Apr 2003 at 23:00.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
From a post by raitfaiter, on the Fragrant Harbour forum, a post with which I concur.
The WHO on the World Service last night sounded a great deal more worried about SARS than the apologists above, in fact it seems to me that attitudes like 'don't worry it's only flu....' were part of the reason that all this got out of control. The WHO said they were increasingly worried that, amongst the 9 that died yesterday, some were fully fit before contracting the disease, and yet still died, refuting the suggestion that it was a disease that only killed those already in some sort of respiratory distress. More info can be found for both pax and crew on the Center for Disease Control website, based in Atlanta, which is in overall control of this sort of situation.
The WHO on the World Service last night sounded a great deal more worried about SARS than the apologists above, in fact it seems to me that attitudes like 'don't worry it's only flu....' were part of the reason that all this got out of control. The WHO said they were increasingly worried that, amongst the 9 that died yesterday, some were fully fit before contracting the disease, and yet still died, refuting the suggestion that it was a disease that only killed those already in some sort of respiratory distress. More info can be found for both pax and crew on the Center for Disease Control website, based in Atlanta, which is in overall control of this sort of situation.
Grandpa Aerotart
A mate emailed from Asia tonight saying that he'd read somewhere in the last few days that 3 times as many people had died of pneumonia and ordinary flu since the SARS outbreak than had died of SARS itself...food for thought I would think!!!
Of course it's not good...but I object to journos comparing it to 1919 for the sake of ratings.
I think SARS is probably here to stay and we'll just have to get used to it like comon flu...which kills 500000/year apparently worldwide...1369/day, every day, year in and year out!!
Lets keep some perspective here.
Chuck.
Of course it's not good...but I object to journos comparing it to 1919 for the sake of ratings.
I think SARS is probably here to stay and we'll just have to get used to it like comon flu...which kills 500000/year apparently worldwide...1369/day, every day, year in and year out!!
Lets keep some perspective here.
Chuck.
Nunc est bibendum
Just to back up the Kaptin's comments, this little 'flu' is currently killing about 5% of those who catch the bug. When you compare this to the .05% who die of the 'normal' flu then a similar infection rate to the normal flu will result in considerably more than 35,000 dropping dead in the USA in a 12 month period.
Someone somewhere else posted the figures for Australia that we have a couple of thousand die each year from the normal flue but that we can expect ten times that amount if this thing starts spreading as 'normally' as the other flu viruses around!
It ain't over until it's over!
Someone somewhere else posted the figures for Australia that we have a couple of thousand die each year from the normal flue but that we can expect ten times that amount if this thing starts spreading as 'normally' as the other flu viruses around!
It ain't over until it's over!
Keg
You’ll probably find that I said that in one of my previous posts. The only think is that SARS isn’t spreading like the Spanish Flue of 1918 which by the way killed 55000 people every day for two years and infected 1/5 of the world’s population. Globally, the World Health Organization (WHO) has reported 3,235 cases with 154 deaths in 20 countries. A total of 1,515 people (over 46%) have recovered and been sent home. As another side note, in Hong Kong, the average number of community pneumonia cases is around 20,000/year, with around 3,000 deaths. This is a mortality rate of 15%. Did you ever see people worried about this? NO. The reason is we accepted the risks and got on with our lives. Once the media and the W.H.O. in there scare mongering ways stop reporting the daily infections and deaths of SARS, which is miniscule, then the world population will be able to get on with their lives and accept the risks we all take every day just walking out the front door.
You’ll probably find that I said that in one of my previous posts. The only think is that SARS isn’t spreading like the Spanish Flue of 1918 which by the way killed 55000 people every day for two years and infected 1/5 of the world’s population. Globally, the World Health Organization (WHO) has reported 3,235 cases with 154 deaths in 20 countries. A total of 1,515 people (over 46%) have recovered and been sent home. As another side note, in Hong Kong, the average number of community pneumonia cases is around 20,000/year, with around 3,000 deaths. This is a mortality rate of 15%. Did you ever see people worried about this? NO. The reason is we accepted the risks and got on with our lives. Once the media and the W.H.O. in there scare mongering ways stop reporting the daily infections and deaths of SARS, which is miniscule, then the world population will be able to get on with their lives and accept the risks we all take every day just walking out the front door.
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SARS is atypical pneumonia, with a current fatality rate of 3-4% I believe, and therefore should be compared with pneumonia, or typical pneumonia, which is not much better, rather than with the flu. The Spanish flu of 1918 killed around 30% of its victims, almost 1 in 3. No comparison really.
This current bug is as much a study in the present power of the media as much as anything. Consider that the average aussie is aghast at visitors who expect to see kangaroos hopping around people's backyards in Sydney, and yet they themselves are led to believe that this bug permeates the air in cities such as Singapore, where the truth is that if you don't visit one of the hospitals wards and don't know one of the current 70 or so infected personally with the disease then you virtually no chance of catching it (in Singapore). You have more chance of being killed by a car.
The chance of food poisonng is probably higher in most countries, but that doesn't stop visitors, so why the real fear of this bug?
This current bug is as much a study in the present power of the media as much as anything. Consider that the average aussie is aghast at visitors who expect to see kangaroos hopping around people's backyards in Sydney, and yet they themselves are led to believe that this bug permeates the air in cities such as Singapore, where the truth is that if you don't visit one of the hospitals wards and don't know one of the current 70 or so infected personally with the disease then you virtually no chance of catching it (in Singapore). You have more chance of being killed by a car.
The chance of food poisonng is probably higher in most countries, but that doesn't stop visitors, so why the real fear of this bug?