AUSTRALIAN AIRLINES - Beware the Trojan Horse
there are actually quite a lot of junior Captains interested, however for most its either kids in school, the wife doesnt want to go or they dont want to leave the Sydney R/E market that stops them.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
IMO, the title of this thread is very apt..Australian Airlines.......BEWARE THE TROJAN HORSE.
...the sweetner, that is being played to make this initially acceptable.
Be assured, that once firmly established, the work is going to increase significantly.
AIPA needs to get off their collective asses right now, open their eyes, and look AHEAD! Ensure that overtime and days off guarantee that pilots are going to have quality time with their family between trips, based on the WORST scheduling that can be built around the current off days.
Again, IMO, Australian Airlines is - in the medium term - going to mean LESS pilots in the QANTAS system.
At the moment you are seeing short term gain, as the Trojan Horse is moved into play.
for junior pilots it can be summed up as paid more and work a lot less. The lifestyle is significantly improved which adds to the appeal.
For middle ground pilots paid slightly less and still work less.
For middle ground pilots paid slightly less and still work less.
Be assured, that once firmly established, the work is going to increase significantly.
AIPA needs to get off their collective asses right now, open their eyes, and look AHEAD! Ensure that overtime and days off guarantee that pilots are going to have quality time with their family between trips, based on the WORST scheduling that can be built around the current off days.
Again, IMO, Australian Airlines is - in the medium term - going to mean LESS pilots in the QANTAS system.
At the moment you are seeing short term gain, as the Trojan Horse is moved into play.
Be assured, that once firmly established, the work is going to increase significantly
Now with AO (since the start up) I do 20 over the same period. Except these sectors are more efficient being around 7 hrs flying time each.
The result - recently we had to plan at CI250 in order for me not to run into flight and duty maximums- and yet I dont feel like I am working harder as Im not doing all the associated extra turnarounds combined with more quality time at home.
Kaptin M, you may be right, you may be wrong. However, you have no idea what AIPA has or hasnt done, and you have no idea about the working relationship between management and crews regarding rostering and future plans.
Having spoken to a majority of the crews and management, and based on FACTS I am satisified the intent is to make the airline a great place to work and one that is devoid of the crap that goes on in mainline. If future practices reduce the appeal then people will vote with their feet. This may or may not be an acceptable risk to management.
I dont need to 'be assured' by you, and AIPA does not need you to tell them to 'get off their asses and look ahead'. They are dealing with a lot of other issues more significant that AO at the moment.
You say 'Again, IMO, Australian Airlines is - in the medium term - going to mean LESS pilots in the QANTAS system.
At the moment you are seeing short term gain, as the Trojan Horse is moved into play.'
If AIPA says no we wont crew the airline, then doesnt that mean even less pilots within QANTAS?
Finally, dont be so arrogant as to tell those who have gone there that they are 'only seeing short term gain'; you are in no position to make that judgement.
Having spoken to a majority of the crews and management, and based on FACTS I am satisified the intent is to make the airline a great place to work and one that is devoid of the crap that goes on in mainline. If future practices reduce the appeal then people will vote with their feet. This may or may not be an acceptable risk to management.
I dont need to 'be assured' by you, and AIPA does not need you to tell them to 'get off their asses and look ahead'. They are dealing with a lot of other issues more significant that AO at the moment.
You say 'Again, IMO, Australian Airlines is - in the medium term - going to mean LESS pilots in the QANTAS system.
At the moment you are seeing short term gain, as the Trojan Horse is moved into play.'
If AIPA says no we wont crew the airline, then doesnt that mean even less pilots within QANTAS?
Finally, dont be so arrogant as to tell those who have gone there that they are 'only seeing short term gain'; you are in no position to make that judgement.
Is it possible the crews with AO may not be able to readily get back into the mainlaine operation? (If they want to that is).
That could have longterm financial repercussions whilst waiting to return.
That could have longterm financial repercussions whilst waiting to return.
CAPT Fathom,
the current agreement guarantees you a return to QF (in your rank last held at AO) at the end of your contract period, or earlier if you are no longer required by AO.
the current agreement guarantees you a return to QF (in your rank last held at AO) at the end of your contract period, or earlier if you are no longer required by AO.
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AO will have direct entry pilots in the next 12 months.
AO has been given flying that was once done by mainline.
For those of you so quick to support AO, have a think about what this means for your future prospects in mainline.
FS
AO has been given flying that was once done by mainline.
For those of you so quick to support AO, have a think about what this means for your future prospects in mainline.
FS
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Fartsock,
It's no wonder you have so much time to post on pprune. You are such a miserable B****** that slip ports open no social doors for you.
You have no idea what you are talking about and doing a search on your previous posts shows a distinct lack of credibility. You, champ, put the Rumour in pprune.
Smile, misery guts.
It's no wonder you have so much time to post on pprune. You are such a miserable B****** that slip ports open no social doors for you.
You have no idea what you are talking about and doing a search on your previous posts shows a distinct lack of credibility. You, champ, put the Rumour in pprune.
Smile, misery guts.
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I am a QF B767 capt JTM. I reckon that qualifies me to comment on my own airline and my own fleet.
Been in the company 15 odd years.
Now, my friend give me some clues as to your basis of credibility and I will consider your point of view as informed or otherwise.
Been in the company 15 odd years.
Now, my friend give me some clues as to your basis of credibility and I will consider your point of view as informed or otherwise.
Fartsock,
you may be right, I think you are wrong however; my read of the situation only.
Whether AIPA supports AO or not, its still going to be there so why not get our crews in there instead. Management are not going to stop the growth of AO just because QF techies dont like it. Plenty of others out there who will jump at it.
By AIPA supporting AO, it actually keeps a future in mainline for QF crews, exactly the question you asked.
you may be right, I think you are wrong however; my read of the situation only.
Whether AIPA supports AO or not, its still going to be there so why not get our crews in there instead. Management are not going to stop the growth of AO just because QF techies dont like it. Plenty of others out there who will jump at it.
By AIPA supporting AO, it actually keeps a future in mainline for QF crews, exactly the question you asked.
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Fartsock - you are not making too many friends amongst the AO pilots especially with a past post calling them s$#bs. They know who you are and watch your posts.
P.S What else was AIPA to do when AO was proposed regards crewing ?
P.S What else was AIPA to do when AO was proposed regards crewing ?
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In other words...
Be a good boy FS, shut your mouth and toe the company line. Management are watching...know who you are..and will take a knife to your nether regions if you persist. AIPA will delight in your demise.
If anything take heart FS. You are far from alone in your views. Its just that no one other than you is game enough to voice them.
Be a good boy FS, shut your mouth and toe the company line. Management are watching...know who you are..and will take a knife to your nether regions if you persist. AIPA will delight in your demise.
If anything take heart FS. You are far from alone in your views. Its just that no one other than you is game enough to voice them.
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I love it, keep slashing and burning guys for the inevitable SQ arrival via DJ. I'm going to laugh when you arrogant QF dickheads see the Airbus and 737 series jets at T2.
I love the asian way, let the competitior think they have the edge, then bring the sword in with a cost base thats really low and see whom lasts the longest in fare wars.
Boy, it's good being in Singapore, seeing how an airline should operate to keep profits rolling in. They really are coming. WHEN, not if..................can you feel it?
I love the asian way, let the competitior think they have the edge, then bring the sword in with a cost base thats really low and see whom lasts the longest in fare wars.
Boy, it's good being in Singapore, seeing how an airline should operate to keep profits rolling in. They really are coming. WHEN, not if..................can you feel it?
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Dear fellow aviators, including extremely knowledable and very
qualified QF captains who everyone knows, loves and respects.
The world alliances, OW and Star are in the process of a great
conspiracy to screw all pilots.
What you do by attacking each other is make it easier for their
earlier success.
US airlines use Chapter 11 to destroy our contracts and very
lives. OZ airlines have AO, CX has a B scale airline within itself.
It's all a process of lowered conditions and has been going on
for at least the length of Fartsocks career.
Think about how to STOP it or at least SLOW it down instead
of point scoring and threatening each other for expressing
yourselves. Know your real enemies! It's the beancounting
bonus earners who are destroying our careers. FOOLS.
qualified QF captains who everyone knows, loves and respects.
The world alliances, OW and Star are in the process of a great
conspiracy to screw all pilots.
What you do by attacking each other is make it easier for their
earlier success.
US airlines use Chapter 11 to destroy our contracts and very
lives. OZ airlines have AO, CX has a B scale airline within itself.
It's all a process of lowered conditions and has been going on
for at least the length of Fartsocks career.
Think about how to STOP it or at least SLOW it down instead
of point scoring and threatening each other for expressing
yourselves. Know your real enemies! It's the beancounting
bonus earners who are destroying our careers. FOOLS.
Thread Starter
Bofta: good points.
thumpa: you demonstrate exactly the point boofta is making.
As I said when I started this thread, beware the Trojan Horse. Don't attack your peers (even if you don't like them much). The likes of Geoff Dixon etc have ONLY THEIR OWN SELF-INTEREST at heart, not the airline they work for, not the passengers and certainly not their staff.
Qantas pilots may well be arrogant but so what, that is not the issue. The likes of Geoff Dixon etc are out there to screw you all, arrogant or otherwise. AO is simply one incarnation of how to do that and their are many others.
Seeing you bitch at each other simply makes his job easier. Work constructively and cohesively
and you will assist your situation. Bitching at each other on PPRUNE won't help your own cause one bit.
thumpa: you demonstrate exactly the point boofta is making.
As I said when I started this thread, beware the Trojan Horse. Don't attack your peers (even if you don't like them much). The likes of Geoff Dixon etc have ONLY THEIR OWN SELF-INTEREST at heart, not the airline they work for, not the passengers and certainly not their staff.
Qantas pilots may well be arrogant but so what, that is not the issue. The likes of Geoff Dixon etc are out there to screw you all, arrogant or otherwise. AO is simply one incarnation of how to do that and their are many others.
Seeing you bitch at each other simply makes his job easier. Work constructively and cohesively
and you will assist your situation. Bitching at each other on PPRUNE won't help your own cause one bit.
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Thumpa, go back to your whisperjet mate. Stop pretending I work in the industry? What, I havent made you laugh on this occasion? Why don't YOU come to Singapore? you may actually have the luxury of seeing a first class airline operate, though having come from a stable of monkeys, who had to buy a 1900 rating as every other airline rejected you, well, what do you expect
Like I said, your holier than thou attitude doesn't cut it with me pal, you are there but by the grace of god, you better not forget it.
The comment I made about you having a two stroke rating is apt, you sit back and patronise others that you have absolutely no idea where they work and for whom.
Like I said, your holier than thou attitude doesn't cut it with me pal, you are there but by the grace of god, you better not forget it.
The comment I made about you having a two stroke rating is apt, you sit back and patronise others that you have absolutely no idea where they work and for whom.