Qantas Link to operate to Port Moresby ?
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Qantas Link to operate to Port Moresby ?
I have heard from a source within Qantas, that they are looking at operating a Dash 8 service from Cairns to Port Moresby. Anyone else heard anything about this?
Could be a workable option with the aging F-28's and there CASA dispo's to operate into Cairns. And also with the proposal of CASA refusing P2 registered aircraft into the Australian FIR. PNG only got a 3 month dispo for that, which starts on Saterday the 1 st of Feb, I believe.
What about the B717, anyone know if that would be a good machine to also maybe consider using on the sector in between CS and PY.
Could be a workable option with the aging F-28's and there CASA dispo's to operate into Cairns. And also with the proposal of CASA refusing P2 registered aircraft into the Australian FIR. PNG only got a 3 month dispo for that, which starts on Saterday the 1 st of Feb, I believe.
What about the B717, anyone know if that would be a good machine to also maybe consider using on the sector in between CS and PY.
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Nothing's impossible I guess but this is the first I've heard of it. I wouldn't have thought it'd be very likely because a Dash-8 can only take 36 pax on a sector that regularly sees over 50 pax on each flight - and often a completely full F28 load.
I don't know anything about the 717 but, if it can accommodate anwhere between 60 and 80 pax (or more), I'd reckon it's a far better option than a Dash. Remember that, if CASA proceeds with the ban on P2 registered aircraft, it will affect operators such as Airlines of PNG, Fubilan Air Service and Regional Air, not just Air Niugini. That would strand a great many pax, on a year-round basis, which tends to suggest that a Dash-8 would be the least appropriate aircraft for the route.
I await developments with great (and vested
) interest
I don't know anything about the 717 but, if it can accommodate anwhere between 60 and 80 pax (or more), I'd reckon it's a far better option than a Dash. Remember that, if CASA proceeds with the ban on P2 registered aircraft, it will affect operators such as Airlines of PNG, Fubilan Air Service and Regional Air, not just Air Niugini. That would strand a great many pax, on a year-round basis, which tends to suggest that a Dash-8 would be the least appropriate aircraft for the route.
I await developments with great (and vested
) interest
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The B717 is a good bet to fill this little niche market.
With the gradual witdrawal (by Qantas) of the Bae146 from the Eastern Australian skies it would seem a logical progression, if considered against the inability of PX to continue operating.
With the gradual witdrawal (by Qantas) of the Bae146 from the Eastern Australian skies it would seem a logical progression, if considered against the inability of PX to continue operating.
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Well... I think we have all heard this before, but I think it's important to realise that the action has come about because of a lack of safety audit procedures at PNG airfields and oversight procedures, and not as a result of anything dodgy about PX. (Or anyone else for that matter) The end result would be the same though, cessation of all PNG/Oz vv flights, except that the PNG Government would have to agree to let whoever wan't to fly into PNG (POM or elsewhere) have the fly in/out rights. And if Australia wants their bat an ball back now, it might not be too easy to get the authority. (If I can't have it, then you can't either.!!)
My money is on this all being sorted at the last minute, and CASA getting what they wanted in the first place ..... improved standards all round at PNG airfields. What do you reckon Ozex.??
Chias
My money is on this all being sorted at the last minute, and CASA getting what they wanted in the first place ..... improved standards all round at PNG airfields. What do you reckon Ozex.??
Chias
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Ozmate; You almost sounded as if you were starting to salivate there.
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"and not as a result of anything dodgy about PX. "
I must have missed something here. Just about every post relating to PX in the last couple of years positively reeeeeeeeks of dodgy.
Has something changed?
I must have missed something here. Just about every post relating to PX in the last couple of years positively reeeeeeeeks of dodgy.
Has something changed?
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clearone... yes, fine, but next to no baggage allowance for the pax. That wouldn't go down too well on any international flight. 
Td... I'd like to think you're right mate but, if we can't get the funds to do the job, nothin will change. I'm yet to see any evidence of the funding needed for the job. As things stand, the only airport I can inspect is AYPY because there's no money to travel anywhere else in the country.
Pinky... anything that's likely to interfere with my occasional, essential "escape" to Cairns gets my attention right away!
fisty... on this issue, Taildragger is correct.
Td... I'd like to think you're right mate but, if we can't get the funds to do the job, nothin will change. I'm yet to see any evidence of the funding needed for the job. As things stand, the only airport I can inspect is AYPY because there's no money to travel anywhere else in the country.
Pinky... anything that's likely to interfere with my occasional, essential "escape" to Cairns gets my attention right away!
fisty... on this issue, Taildragger is correct.
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One would think the CNSPOM sector would be a goldmine for Northbound cargo, even handling overflow moved on domestic flights from Southern ports to CNS and onforwarded so therefore:
DH8-100/200 series - marginal and little or no cargo capacity above baggage.
DH3 - Multiply the problem by 4 and just load the Captains lunch.
B717 - Tas Melb routes are offloading baggage like there in no tomorrow and cargo is not a consideration with any kind of holding.
142- Possible, as cavernous holds. MLW the first problem that springs to mind with holding and alternates.
143 - Also possible, but multiply your MLW problem. ZFW problems with full load and centre wing tanks full if fitted.
B733 - Now we are talking. Fairly bulletproof aeroplane and this is my call for the route. Capacity, range, weight performance and nice big holds.
Just one groundhogs view of the situation.
Please feel free to pull these suggestions to pieces at your leisure, as I will be interested to see if I am close to the mark.
Best regards
EWL
DH8-100/200 series - marginal and little or no cargo capacity above baggage.
DH3 - Multiply the problem by 4 and just load the Captains lunch.
B717 - Tas Melb routes are offloading baggage like there in no tomorrow and cargo is not a consideration with any kind of holding.
142- Possible, as cavernous holds. MLW the first problem that springs to mind with holding and alternates.
143 - Also possible, but multiply your MLW problem. ZFW problems with full load and centre wing tanks full if fitted.
B733 - Now we are talking. Fairly bulletproof aeroplane and this is my call for the route. Capacity, range, weight performance and nice big holds.
Just one groundhogs view of the situation.
Please feel free to pull these suggestions to pieces at your leisure, as I will be interested to see if I am close to the mark.
Best regards
EWL
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EWL,
I am surprise to hear the B717 is offloading baggage on the tassie - mel route.
Is this a recent trend or an ongoing problem?
I would have thought the 717 would do the Cns-Pom sector with ease.
I am surprise to hear the B717 is offloading baggage on the tassie - mel route.
Is this a recent trend or an ongoing problem?
I would have thought the 717 would do the Cns-Pom sector with ease.
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Fist
from what I can gather it is a MLW problem, rather than space. There is a hell of an uproar from the live seafood market here at being unable to get product shipped at peak traffic times. The baggage uplift limits seem to bite hardest when destination WX is marginal and alternates have to be carried.
It is a surprise to me too, but feel it is a flow on from the el-cheapo certification Gerry Gee got on the aeroplanes in the first place. I believe QF link have spent a lot of money having them recertified for heavier MLW but they cannot have gone the whole hog, as problems still seem to be appearing.
The 717 is a fine lady, and has great passenger appeal, but every aeroplane has its limitations.
I would be pleased to get an update from 717 crews on their experience, as I am dealing from a short deck here.
Best all
EWL
from what I can gather it is a MLW problem, rather than space. There is a hell of an uproar from the live seafood market here at being unable to get product shipped at peak traffic times. The baggage uplift limits seem to bite hardest when destination WX is marginal and alternates have to be carried.
It is a surprise to me too, but feel it is a flow on from the el-cheapo certification Gerry Gee got on the aeroplanes in the first place. I believe QF link have spent a lot of money having them recertified for heavier MLW but they cannot have gone the whole hog, as problems still seem to be appearing.
The 717 is a fine lady, and has great passenger appeal, but every aeroplane has its limitations.
I would be pleased to get an update from 717 crews on their experience, as I am dealing from a short deck here.
Best all
EWL
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E W Loco. I have never seen baggage off loaded anywhere in the 717 network. Especially not between ML and HBA. I really think you need to be in the seat plugging the figures into the fms before you are qualified to comment
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OK - so I am an expert on galley space, not cargo space.... The QF Inflight magazine lists the cargo space on a 717 as being more then a 733. Of course it isn't exactly a technical publication 
but that's what I read. Please don't flame me for the above comment - I normally just do the coffee....
I asked a CSA at HBA if he had heard of luggage/freight being offloaded on the 717 and he said no too.
Actually I do remember the tech crew talking about a problem with weights when we first started working with QF. Didn't they fix that? Wasn't it all just a 'numbers on paper' thing?
but that's what I read. Please don't flame me for the above comment - I normally just do the coffee....I asked a CSA at HBA if he had heard of luggage/freight being offloaded on the 717 and he said no too.
Actually I do remember the tech crew talking about a problem with weights when we first started working with QF. Didn't they fix that? Wasn't it all just a 'numbers on paper' thing?
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Interesting Doug and thumpa
News down here (particularly in HBA) has been harping on BB and freight probs. One of my main points was that freight pays better than cargo on international runs as it is on a set formula in general, and not like the domestic discounted market on "backloading" routes like Tas to North Island.
Point is taken re BB offloads, however in most cases the flight deck crew would not be aware of an offload, as if you are presented with an aeroplane in trim and within weight parameters then you dont need to know.
Initial problems were apparently due to a paper only problem, and nothing to do with the aeroplane.
SLF appeal is very high on the 717 - have nver heard a bad word about the girl.
Lets face it, it is a DC9 and they were a beaut aeroplane to ride in too.
best all
EWL
News down here (particularly in HBA) has been harping on BB and freight probs. One of my main points was that freight pays better than cargo on international runs as it is on a set formula in general, and not like the domestic discounted market on "backloading" routes like Tas to North Island.
Point is taken re BB offloads, however in most cases the flight deck crew would not be aware of an offload, as if you are presented with an aeroplane in trim and within weight parameters then you dont need to know.
Initial problems were apparently due to a paper only problem, and nothing to do with the aeroplane.
SLF appeal is very high on the 717 - have nver heard a bad word about the girl.
Lets face it, it is a DC9 and they were a beaut aeroplane to ride in too.
best all
EWL
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When impulse first started flying for qantaslink there were problems with offloads of freight and bags this was as ditzy boy said only a paperwork issue and once the MLW was raised (as well as the BRW slightly) that solved the problem and there are now usually only offloads of freight when there are extreme numbers of bags (by that i mean above 190 bags on a flight)
and the offload is more likely due to volume than weight.
In addition to that We also have 6 HGW B717 which are never limited by weight and have an available payload which is notably higher than that of a B7373.
EWL,
We are still taking a S*#tload of Seafood out of Tassie each day
so maybe what you were referring to was when we first started with qlink.
and the offload is more likely due to volume than weight.
In addition to that We also have 6 HGW B717 which are never limited by weight and have an available payload which is notably higher than that of a B7373.
EWL,
We are still taking a S*#tload of Seafood out of Tassie each day
so maybe what you were referring to was when we first started with qlink.
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Getting back to SHAGGS' initial post for a moment, if we assume for a moment that there are thoughts of using Dash-8 type aircraft, the rationale may be quite different to what we've been talking about so far.
I posed myself the question... why MIGHT they consider using such an aircraft on the CNS-POM route?
The only answer I came up with is that all the other types are too fully occupied on their current schedules. Thus, there may not be enough "fat" in the schedule to release a 737, or even a 717, to operate the service. Implicit in this thnking is that there would have to be a considerable amount of "fat" in the Dash-8 fleet's current schedules because of the longer flight time required on the route.
That could be offset against faster turn-around times because of the more limited load that a Dash-8 can take. The problem here is that, when they do the sums and assess the pax, baggage and freight traffic on the route, they'll undoubtedly find that the numbers won't work out without using 2 Dash-8s and/or increasing the frequency of the flights.
It starts to look like pie in the sky stuff to me, but there may be one other reason that might make a Dash-8 operation attractive to Qantas. The aircraft is extremely flexible for take-off and landing - and there isn't the same imperative for airport and terminal facilities as would be needed for a 737 or 717. In light of the threat from CASA against PNG-based AOC holders, Qantas might believe that the whole issue will come down to a compromise that may not be very satisfactory for the operation of larger aircraft.
Thus, I suspect that, if there really has been any such consideration within Qantas, it's probably just one of several scenarios that they're looking at. I'm sure that they don't want to lose the route completely - it's been a gold mine for them, over the years, even with just the codeshare service on Pixie's F28s.
But, as always, I continue to await developments with (vested) interest!
I posed myself the question... why MIGHT they consider using such an aircraft on the CNS-POM route?
The only answer I came up with is that all the other types are too fully occupied on their current schedules. Thus, there may not be enough "fat" in the schedule to release a 737, or even a 717, to operate the service. Implicit in this thnking is that there would have to be a considerable amount of "fat" in the Dash-8 fleet's current schedules because of the longer flight time required on the route.
That could be offset against faster turn-around times because of the more limited load that a Dash-8 can take. The problem here is that, when they do the sums and assess the pax, baggage and freight traffic on the route, they'll undoubtedly find that the numbers won't work out without using 2 Dash-8s and/or increasing the frequency of the flights.
It starts to look like pie in the sky stuff to me, but there may be one other reason that might make a Dash-8 operation attractive to Qantas. The aircraft is extremely flexible for take-off and landing - and there isn't the same imperative for airport and terminal facilities as would be needed for a 737 or 717. In light of the threat from CASA against PNG-based AOC holders, Qantas might believe that the whole issue will come down to a compromise that may not be very satisfactory for the operation of larger aircraft.
Thus, I suspect that, if there really has been any such consideration within Qantas, it's probably just one of several scenarios that they're looking at. I'm sure that they don't want to lose the route completely - it's been a gold mine for them, over the years, even with just the codeshare service on Pixie's F28s.
But, as always, I continue to await developments with (vested) interest!